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12-07-2015, 03:13 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Which film cameras do you have?
Yashicamat TLR
Yashica Electro 35 GSN
Olympus XA
Olympus 35RD
Asahi Spotmatic
Pentax ZX-7

I think that's it for now, with the XA seeing the most use.

12-07-2015, 04:37 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by skierd Quote
Yashicamat TLR
Yashica Electro 35 GSN
Olympus XA
Olympus 35RD
Asahi Spotmatic
Pentax ZX-7

I think that's it for now, with the XA seeing the most use.
Okay. I asked because I have all Pentax bodies and a lot of film-era and a bit of film-compatible (DA40, DA50) K mount glass that sees a fair bit of use on the DSLR, plus at least one of my film bodies is always loaded, so dumping all my Pentax glass and digital body to go over to something else makes little sense for me. That's the perspective I'm approaching things from, so you can understand why I'm advising you to hold fast for a while.
12-07-2015, 04:43 PM   #18
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I'd replace the ZX-7 with an F100 most likely, so I understand the feeling well. VR on film, yes please...

I checked out a d750 at my LCS today. It plus the 24-120 was hefty, more so with the 150-600. It's fast, responsive, and well proportioned though and isn't as unwieldy as the bulk would make it out to be. I also immediately thought "I'll never actually bring this beast with me unless it's for a dedicated photo outing, will I?" My k-30 might still be for serious work but it's small enough to go out on a whim especially with the 40 attached. I wish I could see a k3 in person...

The gentleman at the LCS did mention however that having seen my work I'm not exactly been held back by my gear at all. And 16x20 being my normal largest size isn't exactly a screaming need for FF.

Last edited by skierd; 12-07-2015 at 04:57 PM.
12-08-2015, 10:15 AM   #19
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The D750 with the 24-120 F4 is literally 350g heavier than my K10D with a 55-300 - the D750 body is not that much bigger either.

Put the Nikon 50 1.8 G on it and you have a super light FF setup - very fast and responsive

I used my Nikon D7000 extensively for 5 years or so and I can say with confidence that you can do things with a D750 raw file I could never do with the D7000 - I would get banding, noise etc

I upgraded to the D750 because they basically threw the 24-120 F4 in for free - please do not assume the 24-120 is a crap lens - its very very capable.

The IQ perception using a FF is I suppose subjective and some will say one uses it to justify the purchase. I've shot thousands of images with the K10D and the D7000 - I have some exceptional images from those cameras but the D750 sensor is a different beast altogether. High ISO images processed through DXO Optics 10 are quite amazing - ISO 10000 is nothing for the sensor. Many times wildlife, birds only start venturing out late evening so ISO 2500-5600 can be mandatory as one need a decent enough shutter speed.

But one definitely needs a different approach going from aps-c to FF - there is a learning curve - on one hand you def get better subject isolation imho, but you also have to use much higher aperture to get more DOF - it also demands better technique - you can't be sloppy even with VR lenses - the Raw file produces a very very flat and very unsharpened profile - it took me a while to learn how to process the file - in a nutshell you can just about do a full HDR pp with one file if one uses the Shadow/Highlight module in PS.

Another thing is if one is shooting 24mp and above it makes no sense using a small screen to view - you will never appreciate until you see your picture on something from 24-27 inches

I've recently tested my 70-300 ED VR and up to 250 that lens is razor sharp and focusses very fast - Nikon have just released the 200-500 F5.6 - at a very reasonable price - I've yet to use a Nikon lens thats not sharp enough.

Unfortunately the final decision comes down to you - I have the combination in question

Below is a test shot with the 70-300 @ ISO 1100 - seems sharp enough and colour fidelity is excellent in my opinion



12-08-2015, 11:38 AM - 2 Likes   #20
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From someone who went that route... I can save you some trouble.

When the D600 first came out I picked it up because I was enamored with full frame. I wanted full-frame badly and thought it was the next logical step for me. I was a hobbyist who did some odd jobs here and there, but still mostly shooting urban and landscape work. I honestly didn't find a big enough difference in quality between my D600 and my K5. Granted I was using FA Limited and DA* lenses vs the kit lens, 24mm f2.8 D, 50mm f1.8 G, 85mm f1.8 G, 80-200mm f2.8 D on the Nikon (only the 85 I still own), but I didn't feel like it was worth the investment for what I was doing vs what I was getting from my K5. I felt like I was hauling a lot of extra weight and bulk for no reason.

Then I started doing more portrait sessions and I started enjoying the transition of the DOF fall off more of the full frame system, not to mention the better flash capabilities. (The SB700/SB910 are two of the very best hot-shoe flashes I've ever used! Especially when using the CLS system). So I sold the D600, 24 2.8, 50 1.8, 80-200 f2.8 for a D800 and a 24-70mm f2.8 G. The D800 is MUCH closer to Pentax ergonomics than the D600 (which was a huge pain for me) and I can switch fluidly between my D800/D810/K3/K5 with ease. But my shooting style has dramatically changed and I'm now a part-time photographer who shoots very little landscape and urban work anymore. All my work is portraits now either paid or TFP.

For me now it's about selecting the right tool for the right job. For strobist work the D810 cannot be beat by Pentax, especially on location and outdoors. In studio the K3 can hold it's own right along side it.

For landscape work... I don't know what I would do if I was comparing say the D610/D750/K3ii. On one hand, the D750 with Tokina 17-35mm f4.0 (a lens I own and shoot a lot with my D800) would be a really amazing kit. But, it's big and it's bulky. Even the Sigma 24mm f1.4 ART would be epic. Or I could just go out there with a Pentax K3ii with the DA 15mm f4 Limited and have almost no weight in my bag and very limited bulk but still take amazing images, not to mention have the GPS astrotracer for astro photography....

All I know is that I only bring the Nikon out for my studio or on location strobist work now. It's killing my body hauling that kit around. (My Nikon kit backpack is 10kg - D810, 24-70mm f2.8, 70-200mm f2.8, 50mm art 1.4, 135mm f2.0 DC and Profoto B1 strobe).

---------- Post added 12-08-2015 at 11:45 AM ----------

for fun.... without looking at the EXIF or Metadata.... can you match the image to the camera? K3, K5, D600, D800, D810, XT-1, Q7


A:


B:



C:


D:


E:


F:


G:

Last edited by Wired; 12-08-2015 at 11:46 AM.
12-08-2015, 05:18 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by skierd Quote
Upgrading to a K3ii would represent the path of least resistance for sure, and is always an option.
you do landscapes, and the pixel shift feature on the k3ii could be a real plus... not sure if it would work for astro?

QuoteOriginally posted by skierd Quote
Right now I'm just looking to be sold on a FF system.
the boost in iso performance with ff would seem to make it a winner for those star shots.

we've seen a number of af performance arguments out here, basically anything pentax vs. d750, and the d750 gets the nod, fwiw.

of course, you don't want af for landscapes and astro work; focus magnify with an evf is the best choice for mf, but test it before ponying up the $$$, some people just don't get it.
12-09-2015, 06:49 PM   #22
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I've seen your work, so I think you'll do fine with any camera setup.

I'm a recent Nikon convert, and am currently rolling with a D610 -- love it. I came from a K-3 -- loved it. I'm not a longtime shooter like everyone else. Pentax was my first system (K-50 and K-3), and while I enjoyed my gear a lot, I had the same desire a lot of people have, wanting to try FF, and was pretty certain I couldn't afford Pentax's initial FF -- so I took the plunge, sold off all of my gear, and went with the D610, and four lenses (50mm 1.8G, Tamron 90 macro VC, Tamron 70-300 VC, and the 24-120mm f/4). I'm super happy with my choice, and quite honestly, if I had kept my K-3, my best lenses (FA 43, HD DA 21, Sigma 70, and 100 WR) and added the 16-85 -- I would be doing just great. But I'm a gearhound, and recent close-up vision issues have robbed me of the ability to shoot with all of that great MF Pentax glass, so the clean break was made a little easier.

If you are in love with the glass that you have, I would seriously consider a K-3, and use some of those savings towards a lens or two to fill any holes you might have. My K-3 picture quality was right there with the D610, with the one exception definitely being high ISO performance. I was never happy with anything over ISO 800 with my K-3, but routinely use auto-ISO up to 6400 on my D610, with anything below 3200 being just fine. I honestly have to barely cleanup ISO 1000, and that is great for me, since I'm a hand-held shooter with flowers, and that sometimes has me taking shots where ISO is needed. I would say that if I could take the Pentax d-pad controls, and the dedicated button for rear AF, the D610 would be about perfect in my book. If you're looking for FF with better modern glass choices (all of my lenses have silent AF, and my macro is internal focus -- love this), and can deal with the hassle of selling off all of your stuff (if you need to generate funds for the migration), and can tolerate slightly inferior ergos (my opinion), then a D610/750 would probably make you really happy, too.

Just depends on what you want to do. I love new toys, so the choice was easier for me. Down the road, the extra weight might not be something I want, and may pave the road back to Pentax for me (unless they go big, and lose that advantage). I would say with great certainty that the photo quality I'm getting is not a consensus win with how much money I would have had to spend if I hadn't sold off my old gear. It was more of an equal trade for me (because of my old LBA), so much more palatable.
12-31-2015, 12:55 AM   #23
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Wired - great insight. Surprisingly, I was able to spot the pentax's, though I switched the bodies on my guesses (thought the k5 shot was the k3). Those dang * lenses sure due pop... The q was easiest to pick fwiw.

I had pretty much decided to get a k3ii, until I saw that the 6D is available from Canon for $1000 refurbished. Add a refurb 24-105L, Tam/Sig 150-600, the 40 pancake, and the 85 1.8 sounds like a good kit too, close to what I'd want overall. Is the IQ jump there though? I don't know, maybe at high ISO?


otherwise, get a k3ii, replace the 20-40 with the *16-50, replace the 50-135 with the 60-250 or eventually add the 150-450, then add the 21 and 77.

12-31-2015, 01:39 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by skierd Quote
I think I might have made a mistake when I borrowed my friend's D600 the other day. Once I opened the files in Lightroom, they were noticeably better than what I get from my K-30 in terms of noise and overall IQ
I tried the D600 myself once, and know exactly what you mean. Back then I was shooting with the K-30 as well.

For a long time, even before trying the D600, I wasn't entirely happy with the ISO and DR performance of the K-30.

I now shoot with K-3 II and have some 20k exposures behind them, and have so far not not a single time been too worried about ISO and DR. In fact it's been the other way around, as I still get surprised from time to time about what and how much I can salvage from bad exposures.

On top of that, the noise reduction and sharpening I do these days, or have done ever since I got K-3 II, is much less aggressive than when I shot using K-30. There are times when I don't apply any noise reduction at all, and while this was true with the K-30 as well, I didn't do it as frequently then as I do (or rather, don't do) now. This is primarily because of the lack of AA filter though.

If you plan on shooting at higher ISO's then there will be some benefits with shooting an FF camera, but if you do not plan on doing much of that, then you might not need to make a system change.

It's your choice in the end but there is a Pentax FF coming out soon, and seeing that Pentax pretty often manages to get a lot out of the sensors, you might want to wait and see how the FF performs.
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