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01-07-2016, 04:02 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spodeworld Quote
Shooting Impressions: On Assignment With The Nikon D500 and SB-5000 - Photography Gear - ishootshows.com

He talks about the amazing high iso performance and IQ that is incredible for any DSLR, not just a crop sensor one.
Seven stops of head room, he says. A little bit over the top. As I said before, I don't buy that there is that much of an improvement in high iso performance over current generation APS-C cameras. There always seems to be some hyperbole when a new camera is released...

Funny too that he is so excited by the fact that Nikon has done away with the pop up flash on this camera, while Pentax Forums melts down every time such a move is mentioned.

01-07-2016, 04:02 AM   #77
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I'm fascinated by the auto micro-focus using a few buttons and the live view. It's something I've thought would not be too difficult to implement and glad that someone has done it. Let's hope Pentax adopts it too. I'm sure it can be managed with some firmware upgrade....

(I've noted that whenever anyone mentions that their lens is soft, the key advice is tripod, MLU, live-view (CDAF) focus. If that can be done manually to fix perfect focus, it can be semi-automated in firmware)
01-07-2016, 04:10 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Those are some pretty crazy specs...153 AF points? ISO 3 million? Jeez!
QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
(...)

I thought it was very difficult to get AF coverage out to the edges. Apparently Nikon has solved it though. Come on Pentax, 25 cross-type points in the center of the frame is not very useful.

(...)
The coverage of the new Nikon autofocus module:

- on an APS-C camera (D500)



- on a 24x36 camera (D5)



To compare: the coverage of SAFOX 11 on an APS-C camera (K-3 II)


Last edited by Mistral75; 01-07-2016 at 04:30 AM.
01-07-2016, 04:43 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
The coverage of the new Nikon autofocus module:
- on a 24x36 camera (D5)
To compare: the coverage of SAFOX 11 on an APS-C camera (K-3 II)
If you overlay K-3 and D5 you see the top/bottom and left/right coverage is exactly the same, so there is little to no progress there (more points and not the unused side areas of the K-3 though), unless someone in for-fool-marketing devises a way to call coverage comparable to Pentax APSC AF coverage a big win.

What we need is some innovative feature that allows much better coverage than the D5, especially top to bottom is way too limited. Just more but still that limited is way too little to call real progress.

If you understand how the "focus points" are actually created (signficantly via software only) you know that there is little hard reason not to have 5000 of them, not the meagre looking 153 number. But I assume the number of points beyond a certain number is just marketing mumbo jumbo like the pixelcount.

01-07-2016, 06:55 AM   #80
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Sony just released XQD memory cards for the Nikon D5 and D500. Sony obviously knew these cameras were under development and probably made the sensors for them.
01-07-2016, 06:57 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
If you overlay K-3 and D5 you see the top/bottom and left/right coverage is exactly the same, so there is little to no progress there (more points and not the unused side areas of the K-3 though), unless someone in for-fool-marketing devises a way to call coverage comparable to Pentax APSC AF coverage a big win.

What we need is some innovative feature that allows much better coverage than the D5, especially top to bottom is way too limited. Just more but still that limited is way too little to call real progress.

If you understand how the "focus points" are actually created (signficantly via software only) you know that there is little hard reason not to have 5000 of them, not the meagre looking 153 number. But I assume the number of points beyond a certain number is just marketing mumbo jumbo like the pixelcount.
The first thing you see wrong. When the K-3 is spread to full frame then they are are a smutch in the middle of the frame. D5/D500 have the same spread and on aps-c it cover a large part of the image and on Ď5 a good chunk in the middle.
01-07-2016, 09:34 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The first thing you see wrong. When the K-3 is spread to full frame then they are are a smutch in the middle of the frame. D5/D500 have the same spread and on aps-c it cover a large part of the image and on Ď5 a good chunk in the middle.
Maybe we are talking about different things here: If I put the K-3 overlay over the shown D5 one there is no difference with regard to what I described. There is more coverage D500 vs. K-3, yes, but on D5 FF it still is sadly limited for $6500 and not being their first FF either, so we can't grant them the excuse of "first try".

They do need to put in some new tech to overcome the limitations that the old school construction has. It's getting long in the tooth. The whole camera industry is just incredibly slow in innovating.

01-07-2016, 12:12 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
... The whole camera industry is just incredibly slow in innovating.
No kidding. Both in design and technical features. I'd bet if an engineer at Nikon submitted a new significant break through in something being faster or more of something kind of thing, Nikon's management would artificially cripple it to be only slightly better so it would take about 5 years worth of baby-steps to get to what the engineer submitted today.
01-07-2016, 12:52 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Seven stops of head room, he says. A little bit over the top. As I said before, I don't buy that there is that much of an improvement in high iso performance over current generation APS-C cameras. There always seems to be some hyperbole when a new camera is released...
It could have gotten quite a bit better. For a couple of years now, there was a talk of using organic sensors, that were supposed to be as much of an improvement as the exmor series sensors were (that was 5x improvement in SNR compared to a standard sensor). Maybe they implemented that technology? It would be roughly the time for it. Fuji and Panasonic are working on something like this and had a prototype 2 years ago.

Here's the news from 2013, on a similar sensor. If Nikon implemented something similar, I could believe in a drastic improvement in SNR.
http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n130611.html

---------- Post added 01-07-16 at 01:57 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
The coverage of the new Nikon autofocus module:

- on an APS-C camera (D500)



- on a 24x36 camera (D5)



To compare: the coverage of SAFOX 11 on an APS-C camera (K-3 II)
That AF coverage on D500 looks beautiful. Still, it's $2000, and if the prices keep as well as the D300's, then it will be $2000 for ages. We will probably be able to get a FF pentax for this much, sooner or later.
01-07-2016, 02:30 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by rrstuff Quote
It could have gotten quite a bit better. For a couple of years now, there was a talk of using organic sensors, that were supposed to be as much of an improvement as the exmor series sensors were (that was 5x improvement in SNR compared to a standard sensor). Maybe they implemented that technology? It would be roughly the time for it. Fuji and Panasonic are working on something like this and had a prototype 2 years ago.

Here's the news from 2013, on a similar sensor. If Nikon implemented something similar, I could believe in a drastic improvement in SNR.
Fujifilm and Panasonic jointly develop an organic CMOS image sensor technology using organic photoelectric conversion layer | Fujifilm Global

---------- Post added 01-07-16 at 01:57 PM ----------



That AF coverage on D500 looks beautiful. Still, it's $2000, and if the prices keep as well as the D300's, then it will be $2000 for ages. We will probably be able to get a FF pentax for this much, sooner or later.
I doubt it will stay $2000 for too long. The 7D mk2 was released at 1700 I believe but could be had for around $1000 during christmas time.
01-07-2016, 05:41 PM - 1 Like   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
If you overlay K-3 and D5 you see the top/bottom and left/right coverage is exactly the same, so there is little to no progress there (more points and not the unused side areas of the K-3 though), unless someone in for-fool-marketing devises a way to call coverage comparable to Pentax APSC AF coverage a big win.

What we need is some innovative feature that allows much better coverage than the D5, especially top to bottom is way too limited. Just more but still that limited is way too little to call real progress.

If you understand how the "focus points" are actually created (signficantly via software only) you know that there is little hard reason not to have 5000 of them, not the meagre looking 153 number. But I assume the number of points beyond a certain number is just marketing mumbo jumbo like the pixelcount.
Regardless of how many AF points there are, one of the biggest problems we all have to deal with is the AF system focusing perfectly but on the wrong subject. Those of us who shoot with telephotos a lot don't need anyone to explain. Until we can tell the camera to " focus on the %*$$#*&& bird, not the boat!" , there will always be auto focus problems.
01-07-2016, 06:17 PM - 1 Like   #87
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Impressive specs, but this Nikon user is sticking with K-3II

Impressive specs, but this Nikon user is sticking with his K-3II.

Why? Simple: Nikon (and Canon) have little financial interest in providing Pros with pro-level DX lenses. Instead, their whole strategy is to get people to "upgrade" to FX. The D500 represents the need for FX users to get "more reach" with their existing FX lenses -- and I predict it will sell VERY well especially to existing FX users. And DX users who "upgrade" to the D500 are that much closer to adding FX lenses to their kit (if they haven't already done so). As such, there is little chance the D500 will hurt FX sales, rather it will do just the opposite: it should generate lots more FX sales. Good for them.

For me, I added the K-3 to my mostly Nikon D800 system because it offered "pro-level" features in a small package AND offered the unique DA* 60-250mm lens which has no CaNikon equivalent. I strongly doubt either Canon or Nikon will ever offer such a lens as that would be quite disruptive to their full-frame gravy train.

So for the time being, I'm totally happy shooting both Pentax (mostly telephoto & macro) + Nikon (normal to wide angle). Until they make it worth my while to switch, I'm a happy camper.

YMMV

Michael
01-07-2016, 06:45 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Seven stops of head room, he says. A little bit over the top. As I said before, I don't buy that there is that much of an improvement in high iso performance over current generation APS-C cameras. There always seems to be some hyperbole when a new camera is released...

Funny too that he is so excited by the fact that Nikon has done away with the pop up flash on this camera, while Pentax Forums melts down every time such a move is mentioned.
After frequenting these forums enough, I realized one man's "excellent" performance is another man's "sub par" when it comes to ISO. So I await actual images in a more thorough test of the D500. Usually DPR does a pretty decent review of this aspect.. so heres to hoping they get their hands on an actual D500 soon and release some infos!

Btw on DPR there is a freakout/meltdown in the Nikon section.. so at least it isn't just 'us.'
01-07-2016, 11:29 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
on DPR there is a freakout/meltdown in the Nikon section.
No surprise.

D300s replacement was W-A-Y overdue, ditto D4s.
01-08-2016, 12:06 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Ricoh still needs to release a fast focusing sport lens to aid a camera with high FPS which Nikon has if you want to consider any new and improved K3 iteration "on top", in my humble opinion. But I'm sure that will be coming out soon.
Well they got that SDM thing going for them.
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