Olympus FF Mirrorless

Winder · 03-25-2016, 05:03 AM

Olympus is likely going Full Frame too. With Sony or in solo style? – mirrorlessrumors
Olympus has now filed patents on 3 FF mirrorless lenses. Are they planning on going FF or are they designing glass for Sony as part of their previous partnership?

pathdoc · 03-25-2016, 05:38 AM

If they know what's good for them, they will stay independent.

If they were to build a full-frame mirrorless copy of the beautifully tiny OM-2, I could be sorely tempted.

mecrox · 03-25-2016, 06:00 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Olympus is likely going Full Frame too. With Sony or in solo style? – mirrorlessrumors
Olympus has now filed patents on 3 FF mirrorless lenses. Are they planning on going FF or are they designing glass for Sony as part of their previous partnership?

I believe this rumour has been around for quite a while now, and there are many reasons that the Olympus team may have designed some FF lenses without the intention of going on to produce an FF camera. As a rumour, there is not much to go on.

Even so, I would be very tempted by an Olympus FF and it is two jumps away from M43 rather than the one jump of APS-C, so as an upgrade or dual system, FF + M43 from a brand of real quality holds some attraction. Who knows, but it's true that right now Sony has the FF MILC field to themselves (unless one includes Leica) and that's a situation not likely to continue indefinitely. Besides, M43 is a pretty full and mature system now so if Olympus want more sales rather than more of the same, where is there to go but to another format.

Winder · 03-25-2016, 06:10 AM

I shot the E-3 for a couple years before it became obvious that 4/3 was dead. I really like the OMD-EM1 as far as responsiveness and operation. I just have no desire to spend that much on a small sensor camera. A FF 4/3 format mirrorless would be high on my list. As much as I like Sony image quality, I don't care for their ergonomics that much, the menus suck, and their build quality is average at best given the price. Olympus could bring a lot to the FF mirrorless market. I don't see them joining Sony.

pathdoc · 03-25-2016, 06:26 AM

The best thing Olympus could bring to the FF mirrorless market is IBIS.

mecrox · 03-25-2016, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by pathdoc

The best thing Olympus could bring to the FF mirrorless market is IBIS.

Together with high-res sensor shift, superb jpeg engine, good ergonomics, style and pizzazz (more important than many think, imho), decent phone/tablet software, lenses as good as any in the industry and, at least where I live, astute marketing which suggests their team has its finger on the pulse. Yes, quite a lot to bring, but sticker prices are a problem. M43 is costly enough but once one starts asking real $$$, the market size shrinks very fast indeed.

Another rumour is that Olympus are working on a series of fast. f1.2-ish Pro prime lenses for M43. If those emerge, then maybe FF is a far-away dream since it would be hard to see the sense in bolstering M43 as a pro platform if FF is just around the corner.

Winder · 03-25-2016, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by mecrox

Another rumour is that Olympus are working on a series of fast. f1.2-ish Pro prime lenses for M43. If those emerge, then maybe FF is a far-away dream since it would be hard to see the sense in bolstering M43 as a pro platform if FF is just around the corner.

F/1.2-ish is still not fast enough. When I shot with the E-3 I had the 35-100 F/2 and it was bigger and larger than the Nikon 70-200 F/2.8.... and more expensive. It is cheaper to make an 80mm F/2 for a FF than a 40mm F/1.0 for a m4/3. The M4/3 lens has to be a lot sharper to give the same results.

osv · 03-26-2016, 12:30 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pathdoc

The best thing Olympus could bring to the FF mirrorless market is IBIS.

sony put ibis on ff over a year ago.

i doubt that olympus has the resources to match what sony is doing with ff, this is probably just patent trolling by oly.

Emacs · 03-26-2016, 01:36 PM

4×3 form factor large sensor would be quite interesting. Definitely no buy in 3×2.

philbaum · 04-30-2016, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by osv

sony put ibis on ff over a year ago.

i doubt that olympus has the resources to match what sony is doing with ff, this is probably just patent trolling by oly.

What we don't know is what Nikon and Canon are going to do about their slumping sales in 2016. For Jan-Mar 2016, sales in Yen are 18% down for DSLRs and 44% up for mirrorless/compared to 2015 Jan-Mar.

In some ways, Olympus seems better equipped to get into FF mirrorless than Canikon. Olympus has the IBIS, EVF and design background to make the jump. In addition, building mirrorless cameras involve far fewer parts and assemblies than the traditional DSLRs.

Guess who is installing the latest LEM technology in their lenses, its the mirrorless mfrs like Sony, Fuji, and lens mfr Sigma/Zeiss. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/04/a-look-at-electromagnetic-focusing. I wouldn't bet against Olympus joining this select technology group in the FF arena.

osv · 04-30-2016, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Emacs

4×3 form factor large sensor would be quite interesting. Definitely no buy in 3×2.

4x3 is a fail, definitely no buy in 4x3.

Winder · 04-30-2016, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by osv

4x3 is a fail, definitely no buy in 4x3.

For anyone shooting Medium format and looking for a smaller package a 4/3 FF mirrorless would be ideal. 645 is 4/3. HD or 4K video could crop in to super 35 or another format like the A7rII does. I would love a FF 4/3 mirrorless body from Olympus. Sony would be up for sale.

**Tony Belding** · 04-30-2016, 06:21 PM

I'm often befuddled by camera companies' seemingly religious devotion to 3:2 aspect ratio. We aren't using 35mm film anymore, guys! The only reason we ever had 3:2 in the first place was a historical accident that everyone got locked into. We're unlocked now. Fly and be free!

As far as an Olympus FF mirrorless camera of any sort. . . It might be interesting. I'm having trouble working up great enthusiasm, though. I keep thinking about those labyrinthine menus full of obscure, poorly-named settings that drive everyone up the wall. IMHO, Olympus lags both Fuji and Pentax on user interface, and I'm not confident that they're going to straighten it out any time soon. And what message would this new camera send about M4/3? That it's too small? That it's not good enough?

osv · 04-30-2016, 07:16 PM

4x3 can be cropped out of 3x2, people do it all the time.

the overwhelmingly universal standard aspect ratio for media presentation is ~3.54:2(aka 16:9).

3.54:2~=3x2.
5.31:3 isn't even close to 4x3.

super 35 is a production format, not a shooting format, framing it for shooting maybe isn't much different than framing 4x3 on the evf/ovf of a 3x2 camera? it's all been done before, why are 4x3 people crying so much?

for super 35 on the a7rii, pixel density was apparently a factor: "While the A7R II can record 4K movies using the full area of the sensor, Sony called particular attention to its Super35 crop mode. Super 35 frame dimensions vary between manufacturers and even within a manufacturer's product line, but are generally in the range of a 1.4-1.5x crop factor relative to full frame - so they're kind of like a HD aspect ratio version of APS-C.

The big story with the A7R II's Super 35 crop mode is that the camera's sampling roughly 15 megapixels down to the eight megapixels of 4K frames without doing any line-skipping. The result is incredibly sharp 4K video."

Winder · 05-01-2016, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by Tony Belding

And what message would this new camera send about M4/3? That it's too small? That it's not good enough?

I think the gap between m4/3 and a FF 4/3 is large enough (2x) that it would be justified. The difference between FF and the 645z is only 1.75. Does the 645z send that kind of message about FF or APS-C?

03-25-2016, 05:03 AM	#1
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Olympus FF Mirrorless Olympus is likely going Full Frame too. With Sony or in solo style? – mirrorlessrumors Olympus has now filed patents on 3 FF mirrorless lenses. Are they planning on going FF or are they designing glass for Sony as part of their previous partnership?

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03-25-2016, 05:38 AM	#2
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	If they know what's good for them, they will stay independent. If they were to build a full-frame mirrorless copy of the beautifully tiny OM-2, I could be sorely tempted.

03-25-2016, 06:00 AM	#3
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by Winder Olympus is likely going Full Frame too. With Sony or in solo style? – mirrorlessrumors Olympus has now filed patents on 3 FF mirrorless lenses. Are they planning on going FF or are they designing glass for Sony as part of their previous partnership? I believe this rumour has been around for quite a while now, and there are many reasons that the Olympus team may have designed some FF lenses without the intention of going on to produce an FF camera. As a rumour, there is not much to go on. Even so, I would be very tempted by an Olympus FF and it is two jumps away from M43 rather than the one jump of APS-C, so as an upgrade or dual system, FF + M43 from a brand of real quality holds some attraction. Who knows, but it's true that right now Sony has the FF MILC field to themselves (unless one includes Leica) and that's a situation not likely to continue indefinitely. Besides, M43 is a pretty full and mature system now so if Olympus want more sales rather than more of the same, where is there to go but to another format.

03-25-2016, 06:10 AM	#4
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	I shot the E-3 for a couple years before it became obvious that 4/3 was dead. I really like the OMD-EM1 as far as responsiveness and operation. I just have no desire to spend that much on a small sensor camera. A FF 4/3 format mirrorless would be high on my list. As much as I like Sony image quality, I don't care for their ergonomics that much, the menus suck, and their build quality is average at best given the price. Olympus could bring a lot to the FF mirrorless market. I don't see them joining Sony.

03-25-2016, 06:26 AM	#5
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	The best thing Olympus could bring to the FF mirrorless market is IBIS.

03-25-2016, 06:54 AM	#6
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by pathdoc The best thing Olympus could bring to the FF mirrorless market is IBIS. Together with high-res sensor shift, superb jpeg engine, good ergonomics, style and pizzazz (more important than many think, imho), decent phone/tablet software, lenses as good as any in the industry and, at least where I live, astute marketing which suggests their team has its finger on the pulse. Yes, quite a lot to bring, but sticker prices are a problem. M43 is costly enough but once one starts asking real $$$, the market size shrinks very fast indeed. Another rumour is that Olympus are working on a series of fast. f1.2-ish Pro prime lenses for M43. If those emerge, then maybe FF is a far-away dream since it would be hard to see the sense in bolstering M43 as a pro platform if FF is just around the corner.

03-25-2016, 07:51 AM	#7
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by mecrox Another rumour is that Olympus are working on a series of fast. f1.2-ish Pro prime lenses for M43. If those emerge, then maybe FF is a far-away dream since it would be hard to see the sense in bolstering M43 as a pro platform if FF is just around the corner. F/1.2-ish is still not fast enough. When I shot with the E-3 I had the 35-100 F/2 and it was bigger and larger than the Nikon 70-200 F/2.8.... and more expensive. It is cheaper to make an 80mm F/2 for a FF than a 40mm F/1.0 for a m4/3. The M4/3 lens has to be a lot sharper to give the same results.

03-26-2016, 12:30 PM - 1 Like	#8
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by pathdoc The best thing Olympus could bring to the FF mirrorless market is IBIS. sony put ibis on ff over a year ago. i doubt that olympus has the resources to match what sony is doing with ff, this is probably just patent trolling by oly.

03-26-2016, 01:36 PM	#9
Emacs Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 1,223	4×3 form factor large sensor would be quite interesting. Definitely no buy in 3×2.

04-30-2016, 12:20 PM	#10
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by osv sony put ibis on ff over a year ago. i doubt that olympus has the resources to match what sony is doing with ff, this is probably just patent trolling by oly. What we don't know is what Nikon and Canon are going to do about their slumping sales in 2016. For Jan-Mar 2016, sales in Yen are 18% down for DSLRs and 44% up for mirrorless/compared to 2015 Jan-Mar. In some ways, Olympus seems better equipped to get into FF mirrorless than Canikon. Olympus has the IBIS, EVF and design background to make the jump. In addition, building mirrorless cameras involve far fewer parts and assemblies than the traditional DSLRs. Guess who is installing the latest LEM technology in their lenses, its the mirrorless mfrs like Sony, Fuji, and lens mfr Sigma/Zeiss. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/04/a-look-at-electromagnetic-focusing. I wouldn't bet against Olympus joining this select technology group in the FF arena.

04-30-2016, 02:54 PM	#11
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by Emacs 4×3 form factor large sensor would be quite interesting. Definitely no buy in 3×2. 4x3 is a fail, definitely no buy in 4x3.

04-30-2016, 05:10 PM	#12
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by osv 4x3 is a fail, definitely no buy in 4x3. For anyone shooting Medium format and looking for a smaller package a 4/3 FF mirrorless would be ideal. 645 is 4/3. HD or 4K video could crop in to super 35 or another format like the A7rII does. I would love a FF 4/3 mirrorless body from Olympus. Sony would be up for sale.

04-30-2016, 06:21 PM	#13
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 781	I'm often befuddled by camera companies' seemingly religious devotion to 3:2 aspect ratio. We aren't using 35mm film anymore, guys! The only reason we ever had 3:2 in the first place was a historical accident that everyone got locked into. We're unlocked now. Fly and be free! As far as an Olympus FF mirrorless camera of any sort. . . It might be interesting. I'm having trouble working up great enthusiasm, though. I keep thinking about those labyrinthine menus full of obscure, poorly-named settings that drive everyone up the wall. IMHO, Olympus lags both Fuji and Pentax on user interface, and I'm not confident that they're going to straighten it out any time soon. And what message would this new camera send about M4/3? That it's too small? That it's not good enough?

04-30-2016, 07:16 PM	#14
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	4x3 can be cropped out of 3x2, people do it all the time. the overwhelmingly universal standard aspect ratio for media presentation is ~3.54:2(aka 16:9). 3.54:2~=3x2. 5.31:3 isn't even close to 4x3. super 35 is a production format, not a shooting format, framing it for shooting maybe isn't much different than framing 4x3 on the evf/ovf of a 3x2 camera? it's all been done before, why are 4x3 people crying so much? for super 35 on the a7rii, pixel density was apparently a factor: "While the A7R II can record 4K movies using the full area of the sensor, Sony called particular attention to its Super35 crop mode. Super 35 frame dimensions vary between manufacturers and even within a manufacturer's product line, but are generally in the range of a 1.4-1.5x crop factor relative to full frame - so they're kind of like a HD aspect ratio version of APS-C. The big story with the A7R II's Super 35 crop mode is that the camera's sampling roughly 15 megapixels down to the eight megapixels of 4K frames without doing any line-skipping. The result is incredibly sharp 4K video."

05-01-2016, 07:29 AM	#15
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by Tony Belding And what message would this new camera send about M4/3? That it's too small? That it's not good enough? I think the gap between m4/3 and a FF 4/3 is large enough (2x) that it would be justified. The difference between FF and the 645z is only 1.75. Does the 645z send that kind of message about FF or APS-C?