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04-05-2016, 09:16 AM   #1
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Mirrorless FF

There was a time, not so long ago, when a lot of people was excited by the new Sony A7xx cameras. Yes, it was a time when nobody knew for sure when and even if a Pentax FF will be made. Now, that time had passed, but still, the mirage of mirrorless still attracts many people. For all of them, and also for every photo enthusiast, a very good article in Petapixel. It deserve the time spend reading.

Why Sony's Full Frame Pro Mirrorless Was a Fatal Mistake

04-05-2016, 09:37 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
ow, that time had passed, but still, the mirage of mirrorless still attracts many people. For all of them, and also for every photo enthusiast, a very good article in Petapixel
I don't think all of those problems would appear in a Pentax K-mount mirrorless, though. The main problem is that Sony is using a super narrow register distance, which ultimately requires bigger lenses (or big adapters). Pentax' K-mount has a decent register distance, so the camera, even mirrorless, would be more blocky (as we can see with K-01).
I'd still like to see a K-01 revamp, with fast AF and other mirrorless improvements. As long as it keeps K-mount
04-05-2016, 09:53 AM - 4 Likes   #3
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I don't agree that it's a very good article.
It includes too many fatal mistakes.

Those mistakes are address in this more non-biased view.
In Defense of Sony's Pro Mirrorless Cameras
04-05-2016, 10:07 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
I don't think all of those problems would appear in a Pentax K-mount mirrorless, though. The main problem is that Sony is using a super narrow register distance, which ultimately requires bigger lenses (or big adapters). Pentax' K-mount has a decent register distance, so the camera, even mirrorless, would be more blocky (as we can see with K-01).
I'd still like to see a K-01 revamp, with fast AF and other mirrorless improvements. As long as it keeps K-mount
i think that just about all mirrorless cameras use a minimal(by comparison to dslr) register distance.

the only reason for a long register distance is to allow for the mirror, and as we are seeing with the progression of technology, there really isn't any need for a mirror... it's an obsolete hangover from the film days.

the article is worthless click bait.

04-05-2016, 10:43 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
i think that just about all mirrorless cameras use a minimal(by comparison to dslr) register distance. the only reason for a long register distance is to allow for the mirror, and as we are seeing with the progression of technology
But I'm saying that they don't need to. The Pentax K-01 is mirrorless and has same register distance as all other K-mount cameras (SLR, DLSR). And no, register distance is not only for the mirror. It also affects things like angle of incidence and can have a big impact on image capturing and lens design, especially with digital sensors. There have been cases of some cameras having odd purple vignetting due to the short register distance, with lenses from the film era (since those lenses were not designed specifically for short register distance digital cameras). Some lens designs would need corrections to project light onto the sensor correctly; and this prevents super compact designs like for example the DA 40mm and other limited pancakes. Those lenses would not be possible on E-mount, they need a longer register distance

QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
it's an obsolete hangover from the film days.
Yes and no. Optical viewfinders still have some advantage over electronic ones. Maybe not for long, but there is still a difference. Particularly if you use special focusing screens (I dont think EVF can emulate that; focus peaking is as close as it gets) or if you want to save battery power. And again, register distance is not just for the mirror/viewfinder.
04-05-2016, 10:49 AM   #6
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fuji has for some time incorporated hybrid ovf/evf technology and split screen focusing technology on its mirrorless cameras.
04-05-2016, 11:04 AM   #7
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Hasn't the linked article been discussed, dissected, and at least partially debunked on another thread?


Steve

04-05-2016, 11:06 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
The main problem is that Sony is using a super narrow register distance, which ultimately requires bigger lenses (or big adapters).
Ummm...my short register 35mm film camera lenses (Contax/Kiev, LTM and Leica M) are the most compact on my shelf. If Sony E lenses are bulky, the registration distance is not to blame.


Steve
04-05-2016, 11:10 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
But I'm saying that they don't need to. The Pentax K-01 is mirrorless and has same register distance as all other K-mount cameras (SLR, DLSR).
adapters equalize all register differences, so i guess that we agree there.

look at how close the lens is to the sensor on these sony cameras, there really is no measurable register distance to speak of: Sony's RX1R II Compact Camera is a Photographer's Dream | Digital Trends

RX1 35mm Sonnar Lens MTF Chart - Sony RX1R Full Frame Compact Anti-Alias Filter Removed Camera

42mp, world-class glass, i don't think that pentax has any pq-comparable wide lenses, at a similar focal length... really nobody does, except perhaps leica.

so the idea that a camera must have a lot of register distance is not true.

as for the ovf, well, that argument will never be settled :-) i'll never own another one, tho.
04-05-2016, 11:29 AM - 2 Likes   #10
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I don't understand why some people like big and heavy lenses with small bodies. I have tried this combination and it is not balanced well for me. I think it looks funny also.
04-05-2016, 12:27 PM   #11
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Sony released experimental products to the market. I have the A7r and have to agree that, as a camera, it's a dog. QC for the Sony Zeiss branded lenses slapped together in Thailand is also poor.

Last edited by HopelessTogger; 04-05-2016 at 12:37 PM.
04-05-2016, 02:36 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
I don't agree that it's a very good article.
It includes too many fatal mistakes.

Those mistakes are address in this more non-biased view.
In Defense of Sony's Pro Mirrorless Cameras
That defense is at least ''slim''. And I quote from the defence article:

''But mirrorless is necessary for most of these innovative features to exist (like EVF tech, focus peaking, and so on and on and on).''

What?? Probably is a joke, or something. And examples can continue. But is not my intention, because, as is normal, different people has different points of view, and they reach different conclusions.
04-05-2016, 03:07 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
there really is no measurable register distance to speak of
That is a pretty safe statement since register is the distance from lens mount flange to focal plane and is categorically limited to interchangeable lens cameras. The distance from rear element to focal plane is another matter entirely and varies by lens design. For non-retrofocus wide angles that distance may be very small indeed. The Zeiss Biogon 35/2.8 has a capacious rear element that sits just a few millimeters from the shutter curtain on the Contax rangefinder cameras it was designed to fit. On the Russian-made M39(LTM) Jupiter-12 variants the clearance is even less on many LTM bodies.

Being that close has its hazards as has been obvious with some native lenses on Leica product and adapted lenses on the A7 series cameras. I suspect that Sony probably compensated for the close distance in their design for the RX1R II lens.


Steve
04-05-2016, 03:33 PM   #14
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i wonder if it could actually be called a negative register difference, since the rear element sits well below the mounting flange... in that sense it's similar to those film cameras you listed, the rear element is very close to the sensor.

what an amazing little camera.
04-05-2016, 03:48 PM   #15
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I dont care the mirrorles, but at some point i want to try video, and the panasonic mirrorles are a very appealing offer, a G7, GH3 or the GX8 with 4k seems like a very good option, some adaptor and im full geared, K1 for stills and the cheaper Lumix with 4k for video... I hand medium hands and a big body, small cameras look like toys with me...
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