[reh321]

Yes. This.

It's just gradually been dawning on me that I don't hold a camera like most other people. I never got used to tightly wrapping my hand around the side of a DSLR like a pistol grip. Even though I got my first DSLR years ago (the K100D), it never felt good to me. Whenever a reviewer tut-tuts over a camera's insufficient grip, or they insist that an accessory grip is a "must-have" item, then I can usually bet I'll like the standard grip on that camera.

Case in point: I liked the way the K-01 felt in my hand.

I suspect I might have liked the grip on the K-S1 that so many complained about. But the swivel screen and weather seals lured me away from that.

Handling is one of many aspects that may have been changed by the Canon T-90. Before that design went from revolutionary to standard, we learned to support lightly with both hands. The large grip incorporated into the T-90 style gives the designers a convenient place to hide a large battery, but it also seems to encourage users to hold the camera mostly with the right hand; I'm not convinced that kind of hold is as stable as what we did, but that is what people expect today. I bought my K-30 only because I got such a good price on it; since I wanted WR, I didn't consider the K-S1, and since I wanted a viewfinder, I didn't consider the K-01, but in neither case did size work against the camera.

[gatorguy]

ks2 is indeed small for a dslr, but he's referring to the grip, where it's a brick in the hand, like all dslrs.
.

Ah, gotcha. Understood.

ks2 is a good bargain for a dslr, but a more realistic comparison... you could spend ~$99 extra for an a6000, over a ks2, and come out ahead in many ways... 24mp vs. 20mp, wysiwyg, 1080p60, etc.
.

..and I'd come out behind in many other ways (besides costs). There's much I would be giving up if the a6000 was my only camera. Different strokes as what subjects I like to shoot may not be what you like to shoot, which is why choice is good.

[mecrox]

I just went through an intense round of camera shopping, and I looked at Olympus, I looked at Sony, I looked at Fujifilm, and I looked at Pentax. I finally settled on a new Pentax K-S2, and I got it a couple of days ago. Since lens prices are quite good now too, I went ahead and grabbed a 20-40mm Limited to go with it.

And now I am experiencing. . . uh. . . I don't know if "buyer's remorse" is the right term, but I'm definitely of two minds about it. I've been using mirrorless cameras for a while, and my old 35mm SLRs too, and I'm finding it much harder than I expected to go back to a DSLR.

I know the feeling ... but what do you really enjoy shooting with, what gives you pleasure with your photography? That's the most important thing of all, imho. It doesn't have to be one camera and one brand, either. Camera A might be what you most enjoy for photographing X whereas camera B gives more pleasure photographing Y. DSLR vs mirrorless, brands, formats - all are secondary really compared to what you get on with best. Both the cameras you mention are excellent, it's not as if one is going to give you a bad result. A 20-40mm Limited is a fantastic lens.

If after a while you are finding that you are just not using one camera, or that one camera frequently leaves you hacked off - well, you have your answer.

[UncleVanya]

I know the feeling ... but what do you really enjoy shooting with, what gives you pleasure with your photography? That's the most important thing of all, imho. It doesn't have to be one camera and one brand, either. Camera A might be what you most enjoy for photographing X whereas camera B gives more pleasure photographing Y. DSLR vs mirrorless, brands, formats - all are secondary really compared to what you get on with best. Both the cameras you mention are excellent, it's not as if one is going to give you a bad result. A 20-40mm Limited is a fantastic lens.

If after a while you are finding that you are just not using one camera, or that one camera frequently leaves you hacked off - well, you have your answer.

That's sound advice.

[osv]

When you say it looked overexposed on the LCD, it's based on what ? The picture itself ? The histogram ? The hihlight alert flashing all over the picture ?

any/all of that.

with a wysiwyg evf, you can see what the picture will look like before you take the shot, there is no need to rely on the camera guessing at the exposure settings, chimping the photo in the lcd afterwards will look like it did in the evf before you took the shot.

the evf will even attempt to add in additional light that's generated by a pttl flash, although i've had mixed results with that in back-lit situations.

live view does not mean wysiwyg; olympus for instance is not wysiwyg, neither are most(all?) pentax cameras, only high-end nikon cameras have wysiwyg in the lcd, etc.

[UncleVanya]

any/all of that.

with a wysiwyg evf, you can see what the picture will look like before you take the shot, there is no need to rely on the camera guessing at the exposure settings, chimping the photo in the lcd afterwards will look like it did in the evf before you took the shot.

the evf will even attempt to add in additional light that's generated by a pttl flash, although i've had mixed results with that in back-lit situations.

live view does not mean wysiwyg; olympus for instance is not wysiwyg, neither are most(all?) pentax cameras, only high-end nikon cameras have wysiwyg in the lcd, etc.

I don't find my Panasonic GX7 EVF or LCD to be particularly more accurate than my LCD review on my DSLR. Chimping if you will. On the other hand I also don't find that I have to chimp that much. I find the discussion EVF delay on the other hand really annoying. I also find that in bright sun even with an EVF it is harder to see due to interference of light from outside the EVF than it is with my optical viewfinders on my various DSLR's and film cameras. Is it unusable - no, is it highly accurate and easy to use - sometimes. Does it frustrate me to use an EVF sometimes when the optical is easier in those cases - yes. Are there times when the evf is easier - yes.

Lost in this maybe is that they are both trading off something good in one condition for something good in another.

[osv]

the wysiwyg evf advantage is about seeing the actual exposure of the shot before it's taken, not so much about chimping the shot later.

although chimping is much more accurate with an evf, because it's a shaded oled display, not an lcd display that's exposed to outside light.

sony mirrorless cameras have lousy eyecups, but finally there is a fix, even a version for eyeglass wearers:

Hoodman Hoodeye Eyecup for Sony Alpha a7, a7R, a7S, and a7 HEYES

it looks like pentax is finally changing the way that they do things: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/320747-p...d-preview.html

[tomO2013]

I shoot A7rii, A7ii and A7s - you could say that I'm heavily invested in the mirrorless ecosystem. There are definitely many times where I prefer the OVF. Particularly the speed, immediacy, 3d dimensiality of seeing the world as it is on ground glass rather than a flat tv screen. I personally find that it helps with composition and a responsive feeling.

I attended a presentation by a Sony artisan not to long ago. He was suggesting disabling the exposure preview and trusting the camera metering as the latitude in shadow recovery is huge and the metering system will try not to blow out any of the individual channels. Of course you can still dial in exposure comp for backlit subjects etc... but this is where you learn how your camera behaves. There are certain circumstances where you should enable it no doubt. Unfortunately the histogram that Sony presents in the EVF is only a generic luminance - it doesn't show individual channels so hard to know if you have blown an individual channel. I noticed a dramatic improvement in my exposures exposure quality when I did this and didn't rely entirely on the EVF WYSIWYG, particularly useful for getting nice skin tones when out and about in the daylight.
At night for event work, I'd prefer bright glass with an OVF instead of a grainy slow to update EVF.
For video, I'd much prefer to have an EVF.

For what it's worth, the K1 looks to support WYSIWYG simulated exposure preview. Put the camera into live view, select manual exposure and voila - you can dial in your changes and preview the exposure as you can with Sony./Olympus/ other mirrorless if you need it. Not sure about other pentax models.

Just my 0.02.

[UncleVanya]

I shoot A7rii, A7ii and A7s - you could say that I'm heavily invested in the mirrorless ecosystem. There are definitely many times where I prefer the OVF. Particularly the speed, immediacy, 3d dimensiality of seeing the world as it is on ground glass rather than a flat tv screen. I personally find that it helps with composition and a responsive feeling.

I attended a presentation by a Sony artisan not to long ago. He was suggesting disabling the exposure preview and trusting the camera metering as the latitude in shadow recovery is huge and the metering system will try not to blow out any of the individual channels. Of course you can still dial in exposure comp for backlit subjects etc... but this is where you learn how your camera behaves. There are certain circumstances where you should enable it no doubt. Unfortunately the histogram that Sony presents in the EVF is only a generic luminance - it doesn't show individual channels so hard to know if you have blown an individual channel. I noticed a dramatic improvement in my exposures exposure quality when I did this and didn't rely entirely on the EVF WYSIWYG, particularly useful for getting nice skin tones when out and about in the daylight.
At night for event work, I'd prefer bright glass with an OVF instead of a grainy slow to update EVF.
For video, I'd much prefer to have an EVF.

For what it's worth, the K1 looks to support WYSIWYG simulated exposure preview. Put the camera into live view, select manual exposure and voila - you can dial in your changes and preview the exposure as you can with Sony./Olympus/ other mirrorless if you need it. Not sure about other pentax models.

Just my 0.02.

I mostly trust the camera to be close but there are certain times I chimp and adjust. I don't trust the preview on my mirrorless yet.

As for EVF's not all are OLED and OLED isn't without faults.

[TomB_tx]

I use an A7 with my collection of old manual lenses. As an old Leicaflex SL user, I prefer central spot metering. With the A7 the EVF image shows the effect of the metering spot selected, so I can scan the scene to find the spot that gives the exposure I want, press to lock that exposure and recompose. Same technique I used with a Leica R4, but now I see the effect in the EVF instead of waiting for processed film.

[tomO2013]

Exposing for a particular spot is possible - there is an option to expose for the af point in the config menu. Obviously an OVF will not show you live view directly.

If you want to see it in liveview, go into liveview and do the same with spot metering as you would do with your A7. You will see the result of the point that you have the spot pointed over and how the camera has metered for medium grey. Then dial in +/- exposure comp as needed.

[ChristianRock]

The K-S1 doesn't have the big grip and handles more like a mirrorless - and it has that same great viewfinder.

[UncleVanya]

Turning off constant preview was a great improvement thank you.

[osv]

If you want to see it in liveview, go into liveview and do the same with spot metering as you would do with your A7. You will see the result of the point that you have the spot pointed over and how the camera has metered for medium grey. Then dial in +/- exposure comp as needed.

that only works if the camera has wysiwyg capability, which most pentax cameras do not.

again... wysiwyg and liveview are not the same thing, it's two entirely different concepts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_preview

---------- Post added 05-11-16 at 10:36 AM ----------

I mostly trust the camera to be close but there are certain times I chimp and adjust. I don't trust the preview on my mirrorless yet.

that's a wise approach, if the camera doesn't have wysiwyg capability.

As for EVF's not all are OLED and OLED isn't without faults.

i suspect that just about all evf displays these days are oled: Digital cameras with OLED displays | OLED-Info

"OLED displays have the following advantages over LCD displays:
Improved image quality - better contrast, higher brightness, fuller viewing angle, a wider color range and much faster refresh rates.
Lower power consumption
Simpler design that enables ultra-thin, flexible and transparent displays
Better durability - OLEDs are very durable and can operate in a broader temperature range"

[tomO2013]

that only works if the camera has wysiwyg capability, which most pentax cameras do not.

again... wysiwyg and liveview are not the same thing, it's two entirely different concepts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_preview

---------- Post added 05-11-16 at 10:36 AM ----------



that's a wise approach, if the camera doesn't have wysiwyg capability.



i suspect that just about all evf displays these days are oled: Digital cameras with OLED displays | OLED-Info

"OLED displays have the following advantages over LCD displays:
Improved image quality - better contrast, higher brightness, fuller viewing angle, a wider color range and much faster refresh rates.
Lower power consumption
Simpler design that enables ultra-thin, flexible and transparent displays
Better durability - OLEDs are very durable and can operate in a broader temperature range"

Sorry, I was talking about the k1 which does support this in live view and manual.
Have not confirmed with other k cameras.