[UncleVanya]

that only works if the camera has wysiwyg capability, which most pentax cameras do not.

that's a wise approach, if the camera doesn't have wysiwyg capability.

I'm sorry but you misunderstand me. I don't care if the EVF/LCD can give me an accurate exposure representation. I don't want it until after I make the shot. Then if I want a different result I will adjust and reshoot. I prefer to have the EVF/LCD maintain a rational brightness even if I am underexposing dramatically - it allows me to use framing cues that might otherwise be hidden in the darkness.

[gatorguy]

that only works if the camera has wysiwyg capability, which most pentax cameras do not.

again... wysiwyg and liveview are not the same thing, it's two entirely different concepts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_preview

---------- Post added 05-11-16 at 10:36 AM ----------



that's a wise approach, if the camera doesn't have wysiwyg capability.



i suspect that just about all evf displays these days are oled: Digital cameras with OLED displays | OLED-Info

"OLED displays have the following advantages over LCD displays:
Improved image quality - better contrast, higher brightness, fuller viewing angle, a wider color range and much faster refresh rates.
Lower power consumption
Simpler design that enables ultra-thin, flexible and transparent displays
Better durability - OLEDs are very durable and can operate in a broader temperature range"

LOL! This reminds me of some of the arguments on Apple fansites, where mentions of OLED's are regularly panned as inferior to LCD for numerous reasons. I guess all display technologies have their good and bad points.

[osv]

I'm sorry but you misunderstand me. I don't care if the EVF/LCD can give me an accurate exposure representation. I don't want it until after I make the shot.

i understand, because that's how my old k10d works, i had to chimp exposure in the lcd, after the shot was taken.

what i'm saying here is that wysiwyg/evf technology has given us a more accurate and more efficient way to use the camera.

sony does that "rational brightness" thing with the "setting effect:OFF" option in the menu... it works in really dark conditions, and it's also useful for studio shooting, when studio lighting doesn't communicate ttl info with the camera.

[UncleVanya]

i understand, because that's how my old k10d works, i had to chimp exposure in the lcd, after the shot was taken.

what i'm saying here is that wysiwyg/evf technology has given us a more accurate and more efficient way to use the camera.

sony does that "rational brightness" thing with the "setting effect:OFF" option in the menu... it Noworks in really dark conditions, and it's also useful for studio shooting, when studio lighting doesn't communicate ttl info with the camera.

No I really don't think you understanding me. I have that option on my GX7 - I turned it off and I'm happier with it off. I don't care or want the camera to predict - I want it to obey and then tell me if I was right.

[osv]

LOL! This reminds me of some of the arguments on Apple fansites, where mentions of OLED's are regularly panned as inferior to LCD for numerous reasons. I guess all display technologies have their good and bad points.

lol, i can certainly see apple fanbois trying to make any kind of failed argument, they've had decades of practice at being wrong

the fact that camera companies are all paying more oled speaks for itself, but for those who haven't been keeping up with modern technology:

"The LG Flagship OLED TV performed extremely well throughout all of the lab tests and viewing tests. It is unquestionably the best performing TV that we have ever tested or watched… with absolutely stunning and beautiful picture quality across the board. In terms of picture quality the LG OLED TV is visually indistinguishable from perfect. Even in terms of the exacting and precise lab measurements it is close to ideal.
The LG OLED TV is far better than the best Plasma TVs in every display performance category, and even better than the $50,000 Sony Professional CRT Studio Monitors that up until recently were the golden standard for picture quality.
The LG OLED TV outperformed the Samsung LCD TV in every category except Brightness (Luminance) for image content with Average Picture Levels (APL) greater than 25 percent. The under 25 percent APL range covers all standard TV content, including digital photos, videos and movies, but does not include Smart TV or PC applications, which can have higher APLs from text screens on white backgrounds."
Flagship OLED and LCD TV Display Technology Shoot-Out

---------- Post added 05-11-16 at 01:47 PM ----------

No I really don't think you understanding me.

i clearly stated that what you are doing there is the exact same way that i had to use my k10d, so i did understand your point.

what you aren't understanding is that chimping to check exposure is an inaccurate and inefficient way to use a camera, given the right equipment.

[Tony Belding]

I just got back from another outing, which hadn't been intended as a photographic venture, but it partially turned into one. . .

I shot some wind damage this morning with my Pentax-A 100mm and Pentax-M 135mm lenses. Then afterwards I discovered that I'd shot all the photos with shake reduction turned on and calibrated to 200mm. Oops! I guess I was holding the camera steady enough, or the shutter speed was high enough, that it didn't matter. They later turned out to be sharp and good anyhow.

Later I started to get some llamas with the 135mm, but snapped a couple before remembering to hit the green button and meter them. Those two shots were wildly over-exposed. Now, here's the interesting thing. . . After I got home, in Lightroom I just grabbed the exposure slider and pulled them down, no problem. It seems like if you're shooting DNG and planning to process with Lightroom anyhow, there's almost no such thing as a badly exposed image! It has more latitude for correction than any camera I've used before.

Both of these incidents underscored the downside of "legacy" lenses. They can perform well, but I have to be on my toes. The body and lens aren't communicating, and the body won't catch my dumb mistakes.

After I'd conducted my business, and also walked around a bit and took some more snaps (with the Limited lens), I came to rest in the pizza place. It was early, and I was the first customer to come in. While waiting for the food, I reviewed my images, then I set the camera aside, on the table. Later on the waitress felt compelled to comment. . . "That camera is great! It's beautiful!" And then she added, "I took a photography course in high school."

Based on her appearance, she might still be in high school. Well, it's great to find out some young folks are studying photography and know there's more to it than just pointing a phone. And she was right. . . It is a darn good-looking camera with the 20-40mm Limited on it, especially if you aren't too locked into the retro mindset.

[surfar]

the fact that camera companies are all paying more oled speaks for itself, but for those who haven't been keeping up with modern technology:

Perhaps you may want to move with the times, 2015 is a long time ago


Samsung SUHD TVs, jumped to the front of the line!

[UncleVanya]

i clearly stated that what you are doing there is the exact same way that i had to use my k10d, so i did understand your point.

what you aren't understanding is that chimping to check exposure is an inaccurate and inefficient way to use a camera, given the right equipment.

I am using the equipment the way it suits me. I am not here to satisfy your desired workflow. I clearly stated that I did not LIKE the camera acting that way and you insist it is because I don't use it efficiently. Also I'm not sure where you get the idea that digital preview is accurate but chimping isn't. How do you determine that one is accurate and the other isn't? Frankly neither LCD nor EVF give enough dynamic range for me to be certain of the outcome until I view at home on a large screen and in good lighting conditions. I trust my camera and my experience to tell me enough to make decisions that are rational. Given raw files the ability to modify the exposure significantly without problems means that I rarely care enough to want greater accuracy than a quick composition aid and a ballpark.

BTW - this is the last time I will see your posts.

[osv]

I am using the equipment the way it suits me. I am not here to satisfy your desired workflow. I clearly stated that I did not LIKE the camera acting that way

we are discussing operational characteristics in general, there is no reason for you take anything so personally.

and you insist it is because I don't use it efficiently. Also I'm not sure where you get the idea that digital preview is accurate but chimping isn't.

perhaps inaccurate was the wrong way to phrase it.

i've already explained that evf preview is more accurate because it's viewed on a shaded oled evf, not an inferior low-rez lcd that's washed out by bright lighting.

[reh321]

that only works if the camera has wysiwyg capability, which most pentax cameras do not.

I guess that depends on how you define "most". I have never taken a picture using LiveView with my K-30, but a few minutes ago I took the camera over to a window, set it for manual mode and pressed the LV button. As I turned the rear dial to give smaller and smaller apertures, the image on the screen became darker and darker; as I turned the front dial to give slower and slower shutter speeds, the image on the screen became lighter and lighter. That fits any reasonable definition of WYSIWYG {all caps because it is an acronym}. Based on the K-30's vintage, I'm guessing that every DSLR currently sold by Pentax exhibits similar behavior.

[osv]

Perhaps you may want to move with the times, 2015 is a long time ago


Samsung SUHD TVs, jumped to the front of the line!

the tv test link that i posted was for a samsung suhd tv.

the 2016 version of that same 2015 tv doesn't offer any substantial improvement in pq.

---------- Post added 05-11-16 at 04:15 PM ----------

I guess that depends on how you define "most".

no, it depends on the correct factual definition of what wysiwyg really is... k-30 is not a wysiwyg camera.

"Like many other cameras the K-30 simulates exposure in live view mode by darkening or brightening the live view image when you dial in exposure compensation or change shutter speed/aperture in manual exposure mode. However, the degree to which the live view image brightness changes is more limited than on other cameras with this feature and only gives you a very rough approximation of the final image's exposure. A histogram can be overlaid but as usual, this just shows the tonal distribution of the image on the LCD screen - i.e. not the estimated tonal distribution of the final image - and is therefore no more help." Pentax K-30 Review: Digital Photography Review

[reh321]

.."Like many other cameras the K-30 simulates exposure in live view mode by darkening or brightening the live view image when you dial in exposure compensation or change shutter speed/aperture in manual exposure mode. However, the degree to which the live view image brightness changes is more limited than on other cameras with this feature and only gives you a very rough approximation of the final image's exposure."Digital Photography Review

They probably don't see any point to generating data more accurate than the screen can show {but close is usually considered to be a good start}

[gatorguy]

the tv test link that i posted was for a samsung suhd tv.

the 2016 version of that same 2015 tv doesn't offer any substantial improvement in pq.

---------- Post added 05-11-16 at 04:15 PM ----------



no, it depends on the correct factual definition of what wysiwyg really is... k-30 is not a wysiwyg camera.

"Like many other cameras the K-30 simulates exposure in live view mode by darkening or brightening the live view image when you dial in exposure compensation or change shutter speed/aperture in manual exposure mode. However, the degree to which the live view image brightness changes is more limited than on other cameras with this feature and only gives you a very rough approximation of the final image's exposure. A histogram can be overlaid but as usual, this just shows the tonal distribution of the image on the LCD screen - i.e. not the estimated tonal distribution of the final image - and is therefore no more help." Pentax K-30 Review: Digital Photography Review

I think we're getting the general gist of your feelings towards Pentax cameras. You don't like 'em and no one here can give you any argument why you should. Fair enough, most of us here do. That's why we're here

[surfar]

the tv test link that i posted was for a samsung suhd tv.

not from what I read in your link

[osv]

I think we're getting the general gist of your feelings towards Pentax cameras. You don't like 'em and no one here can give you any argument why you should.

i own a pentax camera and a number of pentax lenses, but i'm no blind pentax fanboi.

Fair enough, most of us here do. That's why we're here

"here"? you sound a bit lost because this is the Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. forum.

---------- Post added 05-11-16 at 06:31 PM ----------

not from what I read in your link

there is a lot of info there, try scrolling to the bottom of the page:

Samsung Model UN65JS9500
3840 x 2160 pixels
4K Ultra HD