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05-16-2016, 05:11 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
reh for instance has repeatedly told this forum how he focuses the camera with the aperture ring, because he can't set accurate focus with his ovf

You really do need to work on your reading comprehension.
I never said I use the aperture ring "to focus".
I never said I cannot set accurate focus with my viewfinder.
I did say that I often use the aperture ring to provide a deep DOF, and apparently you do the same thing since you report the calculated DOF as 75' in one of your images {and that is typical of the calculated DOF I aim for}, but no, I'm not interested in resuming our discussion of DOF since you're not willing to look at and read with comprehension actual discussions of how DOF is defined.


Last edited by reh321; 05-16-2016 at 05:47 PM.
05-16-2016, 05:17 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
comprehension.I never
Some work to do there is my observation.
05-16-2016, 06:50 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I wouldn't like to speak for others, but I'd think many here understand the technical implication of your reference. Why would you hold yourself above the discussion by referring to "you"? I think an equal number of people here understand the implications of that, as well.
Amen to that.
05-17-2016, 08:06 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Please check before you assume. My m43 body is the Panasonic GX7 and you are incorrect.

Panasonic GX7 EVF question: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Note also the post that describes how this works includes a user describing the fact that he does not use this feature in bright light with LCD or EVF since it is difficult to fully judge. He only really uses it in dim light."
no, as you just quoted, that thread proved everything that i said, you are incorrect... notice the mention of the dof preview button? what do think that is there for? then there is this:

"Of note, when you shoot in M mode the GX7 will not show you any changes beyond 1/1000 of a sec. In other words, it shows you the exposure changing from 1/640, to 1/800, to 1/1000. After that, you will see no change from 1/1000 to 1/1300." ...the gx7 is not wysiwyg.

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Let me take issue with the concept that you have laid out logical constructs. Most of what you have said boils down to Mirrorless is better because exposure accuracy is laid out for you in real time. But when I stated this was NOT a factor for me you felt it important to continue hammering this point despite it being a NON-factor for me.
read the thread title... does it say "what are your personal preferences in a camera"? no, it doesn't, because this is a technology thread.

---------- Post added 05-17-16 at 08:16 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I wouldn't like to speak for others, but I'd think many here understand the technical implication of your reference.
oh? then why did we just see several posts that failed to address the technical implications of the aperture being held open? rob, the best you could come up with was an ad hominem attack

vanya claimed that i was incorrect, then proved that i was right with his next sentence, lol

---------- Post added 05-17-16 at 08:22 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I did say that I often use the aperture ring to provide a deep DOF, and apparently you do the same thing since you report the calculated DOF as 75' in one of your images {and that is typical of the calculated DOF I aim for}
thanks for proving my point once again... your idea of "focus" is a 75' dof you don't use the focus ring to focus, you use the aperture ring... classic ovf failed mindset; you can't accurately focus on any specific spot, so you throw 75' of dof at everything.

05-17-2016, 08:30 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
no, as you just quoted, that thread proved everything that i said, you are incorrect... notice the mention of the dof preview button? what do think that is there for? then there is this:

"Of note, when you shoot in M mode the GX7 will not show you any changes beyond 1/1000 of a sec. In other words, it shows you the exposure changing from 1/640, to 1/800, to 1/1000. After that, you will see no change from 1/1000 to 1/1300." ...the gx7 is not wysiwyg.



read the thread title... does it say "what are your personal preferences in a camera"? no, it doesn't, because this is a technology thread.

---------- Post added 05-17-16 at 08:16 AM ----------



oh? then why did we just see several posts that failed to address the technical implications of the aperture being held open? rob, the best you could come up with was an ad hominem attack

vanya claimed that i was incorrect, then proved that i was right with his next sentence, lol
Reading comprehension or cherry picking is an issue with you.

That same article points out there is no problem at all with aperture preferred mode (using exposure compensation). Additionally having a limitation on shutter speed in ONE MODE is not the same as lacking a feature. Further as I think you are a bit selective in what points you address, the accuracy of an exposure is mostly moot with the high dynamic range if you shoot RAW - being even close is sufficient. Finally the fact that ETTR is a real approach means visual accuracy is moot as a histogram is generally preferred for this.

Actually one more point, why do you feel You and you alone, can define the conversation how you want? Why is your voice the limit of what is worthy of inclusion to the thread? You appear to be using the same tactics of all fanatics and you have not tried to have a discussion, you seem instead to enjoy proselytizing.
05-17-2016, 09:08 AM - 1 Like   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
thanks for proving my point once again

Wrong Again! {such a losing streak you're on!}


QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
your idea of "focus" is a 75' dof. you don't use the focus ring to focus, you use the aperture ring... classic ovf failed mindset; you can't accurately focus on any specific spot, so you throw 75' of dof at everything.
The following picture is one I took the last time when I tired of trying to reason with you and sat on our deck looking for flying pigs instead.
{the calculated DOF is 5" BTW}
I was watching our bird feeder, and focused on it {with the aperture set at f/8}, when this bird landed on a branch I had not prepared for.
In the next minute, I swiveled my camera around {I had it on a monopod for stability}, zoomed in to get the framing I wanted, used the focus ring to focus on the bird, and took the picture.
I did not use your method of carefully magnifying each part of the bird to check for focus, nor could I have done that, because the bird flew away within ten seconds of my taking the picture.
I was focused on the bird as a whole, not on a particular spot, because I wanted the entire bird in focus.




And here is the truly funny part.
This time you've been focusing on me, you've been attacking someone who is not against you.
If you look at the EXIF, you'll see that my birding camera is an MILC.
None of this was done using an OVF. Sometimes I use an OVF and sometimes I use Hoodman over an LCD {because my Q-7 unfortunately doesn't have an EVF}
However, I use essentially the same method in each case - I use the aperture ring to preset for the most appropriate DOF, use the focusing ring to focus on the object of interest {and type of viewfinder does not affect my ability to achieve focus}, then take the picture and move on.

It's raining outside right now, so this is probably a bad day to sit outside watching for birds, or flying pigs, but I'm not going to continue this discussion of my photographic methods since it is clearly off-topic.
Sometimes I use DSLR,
Sometimes I use MILC.
As they sometimes say around here {with all due apologies to Michael Vick} "I don't have a dog in this fight", but please don't display your ignorance and inability to read by making more stupid statements about your misunderstandings of how I take pictures.

05-17-2016, 09:46 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I did not use your method of carefully magnifying each part of the bird to check for focus
that's you once again not understanding how to use a mirrorless camera

so you got one pic in focus with your 75' dof method, bfd even a stopped clock is right every now and then.

---------- Post added 05-17-16 at 09:56 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Reading comprehension or cherry picking is an issue with you.
how about if you stop trying to hijack the thread into being all about what you want out of a camera?

once again... the gx7 does not have wysiwyg; and you aren't getting the point that was made about the dof preview button.

"I got myself a GX7 with the 20mm as a kit and switched from the Sony NEX system over to m4/3. I was switching between E-M5 and GX7 for a while but then went for the Pana for several reasons.
Now a few weeks later I do have some general questions that I find some answers to online (but want to make sure it really is like that), comming from the NEX system I did find it disapointing to see that Live Preview or Constat Preview is only in M Mode and not in A/S.
- Is this Constant Preview always like that, also with other Pana or Oly Cams ?
- Why is it not available, it's a mirrorless camera and I thought that is one of the main advantages of mirrorless cameras!" https://www.mu-43.com/threads/trying-to-understand-my-gx7.55106/

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Additionally having a limitation on shutter speed in ONE MODE is not the same as lacking a feature.
real wysiwyg cameras have a true wysiwyg capability at all shutter speeds.

the fact that the exposure appears to change in the evf does not make the camera wysiwyg... reh tried claiming that earlier, he was wrong.

05-17-2016, 12:16 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
that's you once again not understanding how to use a mirrorless camera

so you got one pic in focus with your 75' dof method, bfd even a stopped clock is right every now and then.

---------- Post added 05-17-16 at 09:56 AM ----------



how about if you stop trying to hijack the thread into being all about what you want out of a camera?

once again... the gx7 does not have wysiwyg; and you aren't getting the point that was made about the dof preview button.

"I got myself a GX7 with the 20mm as a kit and switched from the Sony NEX system over to m4/3. I was switching between E-M5 and GX7 for a while but then went for the Pana for several reasons.
Now a few weeks later I do have some general questions that I find some answers to online (but want to make sure it really is like that), comming from the NEX system I did find it disapointing to see that Live Preview or Constat Preview is only in M Mode and not in A/S.
- Is this Constant Preview always like that, also with other Pana or Oly Cams ?
- Why is it not available, it's a mirrorless camera and I thought that is one of the main advantages of mirrorless cameras!" https://www.mu-43.com/threads/trying-to-understand-my-gx7.55106/



real wysiwyg cameras have a true wysiwyg capability at all shutter speeds.

the fact that the exposure appears to change in the evf does not make the camera wysiwyg... reh tried claiming that earlier, he was wrong.
Why are you even here?
05-17-2016, 12:37 PM - 1 Like   #114
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I have to admit to feeling slightly guilty every time I pick up my sony, but for me the EVF is just so much fun. I have only ever used 2 lenses on my Sony, my Revuenon 55m F1.2 and my k 30mm F2.8. I just love the manual focus aids, especially for the 55mm at F1.2 or F1.4, I get more keepers now.
The moment Pentax bring out an EVF camera that is half decent, I will be all over it as I love their ergonomics and menus.
05-17-2016, 01:02 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by edgedemon Quote
I have to admit to feeling slightly guilty every time I pick up my sony, but for me the EVF is just so much fun. I have only ever used 2 lenses on my Sony, my Revuenon 55m F1.2 and my k 30mm F2.8. I just love the manual focus aids, especially for the 55mm at F1.2 or F1.4, I get more keepers now.
The moment Pentax bring out an EVF camera that is half decent, I will be all over it as I love their ergonomics and menus.
Well, in Msg #67 of the thread https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/321074-q-s1-discontinued-end-q-5.html
Kenspo has indicated that Pentax has something non-DSLR in the works.
I've stated several places that I'll buy another "Q" if Pentax releases one with an EVF,
or a K-mount MILC if Pentax releases one of them with an EVF,
so I'm saving my dimes and nickels {and if they release both, my bankbook is in trouble!!}
05-17-2016, 01:57 PM - 1 Like   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Why are you even here?
(Laughs) Could Sony have a worse advocate than Osv?

BTW, his A7R is so bad he had to buy another autofocus system for it - I'm not making this up!

Last edited by clackers; 05-19-2016 at 02:02 PM.
05-17-2016, 02:03 PM   #117
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Original Poster
You know, I sort of regret starting this thread -- or at least naming it as I did. I should have foreseen the direction it would go.

As I've messed around with the K-S2, I think for a while I was really looking for any possible flaw in it, and any possible excuse to reject it and go back and buy a Fuji X-T1, which is a camera I've wanted ever since I first saw it. Then a bit of panic started to set in. . . "This Pentax really has nothing wrong with it at all! It's excellent. Oh damn, what am I going to do now??" And the answer, in the end, was what it usually comes down to in these situations: get them both.

Gear Acquisition Syndrome. It's an ugly thing. I thought I had the symptoms under control, then it sunk its claws into me again.

I'll be testing and using them side-by-side for a while, much as I did before with the E-M5 and K-01. Time and experience will tell how things shake out. (I'm confident that the X-T1 body will be good, but it's the Fuji lens catalog that much of my misgivings revolve around, and is a big part of why I picked the K-S2 to begin with.)
05-17-2016, 02:11 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
. (I'm confident that the X-T1 body will be good, but it's the Fuji lens catalog that much of my misgivings revolve around, and is a big part of why I picked the K-S2 to begin with.)
The XT-1 has some nice things about it, Tony, but at the end of the day it's a lot of money for a 16Mp APS-C body. You can do better.



05-17-2016, 02:18 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The XT-1 has some nice things about it, Tony, but at the end of the day it's a lot of money for a 16Mp APS-C body. You can do better.
And as Tony said... the real cost of that system is the lenses. He knows what he's in for
05-17-2016, 02:41 PM   #120
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A much better option is the Samsung NX500 imo, does everything the NX1 does but without the viewfinder and no weather sealing( u have both with the KS2)


Its the bang for buck in high end mirrorless.
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