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05-16-2016, 05:47 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
Im a vintage Lens Fanatic actually and a Strobist. None of My Pentax DSLRs Came with Calibrated Focus Screens (I had to re-calibrate or replace their Screens). And none of the Pentax DSLRs knew how to TTL Flash for these old lenses(yes I do know how to fiddle with and calculate Vintage and modern Flashes/Equipment). I just wanted to take Luck out of the equation.
What you fail to explain is why a solution to your problems with DSLR's has any relevance to other users who don't use vintage lens or are strobists.

05-16-2016, 06:14 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
Im a vintage Lens Fanatic actually and a Strobist. None of My Pentax DSLRs Came with Calibrated Focus Screens (I had to re-calibrate or replace their Screens). And none of the Pentax DSLRs knew how to TTL Flash for these old lenses(yes I do know how to fiddle with and calculate Vintage and modern Flashes/Equipment). I just wanted to take Luck out of the equation.
For a niche' use-case like yours you seem to have found a solution that you're happy with. Maybe useful information for other strobist's using very vintage lenses. Sounds like it could make sense in certain specialized studio settings

Last edited by gatorguy; 05-16-2016 at 06:23 AM.
05-16-2016, 06:52 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
For a niche' use-case like yours you seem to have found a solution that you're happy with. Maybe useful information for other strobist's using very vintage lenses. Sounds like it could make sense in certain specialized studio settings
I rarely do studio work. I do wildlife macro and indoor outdoor events and portraits and location photography.
Never said very vintage. Im mostly use Pentax-A-K-M era lenses

---------- Post added 05-16-16 at 10:23 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
What you fail to explain is why a solution to your problems with DSLR's has any relevance to other users who don't use vintage lens or are strobists.
If you never use Manual focus with a fast or Macro lens then it is irrelevant.
05-16-2016, 07:35 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
I rarely do studio work. I do wildlife macro and indoor outdoor events and portraits and location photography.
Never said very vintage. Im mostly use Pentax-A-K-M era lenses
I misunderstood you then.

FWIW my macro interest started with a very-vintage Kiron 105. I've not had much issue with using it tho, nor any problem with the much newer Pentax 100WR Macro, both of which are used manual focus when I'm shooting macro. I'm still practicing with Catch In focus but it seems to work well with fast moving subjects, shutter-lag not appearing to be the problem I assumed it might be. I guess on the KS2 it's pretty low, tho your Sony A7 probably has a similar feature that would work just as well.

Turning off highlight alert fixed my "busy LCD" Live View use this weekend, tho I still much prefer the viewfinder. Maybe with much more practice I wouldn't have as much of an issue using it to frame my shots. As it is I can set up a whole lot faster looking thru the eyepiece rather than the LCD. When setting up on a tripod the rear LCD becomes a whole lot more important I agree, and sometimes that particularly low angle makes my articulating screen a necessity. Otherwise I almost never set up staged shots anyway and quite like the 100% preview from the Pentax viewfinder for the vast majority of my work.

I'm glad you have something you're happy with tho, hopefully as very happy as I am with my KS2. I might get a cheap mirrorless along the way for something to keep in the truck console instead of using just my camera phone, but to be honest between it and the Pentax 95% of my photo needs are covered satisfactorily so I don't see the wisdom of spending much on one.


Last edited by gatorguy; 05-16-2016 at 07:52 AM.
05-16-2016, 08:11 AM - 1 Like   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
I misunderstood you then.

FWIW my macro interest started with a very-vintage Kiron 105. I've not had much issue with using it tho, nor any problem with the much newer Pentax 100WR Macro, both of which are used manual focus when I'm shooting macro. I'm still practicing with Catch In focus but it seems to work well with fast moving subjects, shutter-lag not appearing to be the problem I assumed it might be. I guess on the KS2 it's pretty low, tho your Sony A7 probably has a similar feature that would work just as well.

Turning off highlight alert fixed my "busy LCD" Live View use this weekend, tho I still much prefer the viewfinder. Maybe with much more practice I wouldn't have as much of an issue using it to frame my shots. As it is I can set up a whole lot faster looking thru the eyepiece rather than the LCD. When setting up on a tripod the rear LCD becomes a whole lot more important I agree, and sometimes that particularly low angle makes my articulating screen a necessity. Otherwise I almost never set up staged shots anyway and quite like the 100% preview from the Pentax viewfinder for the vast majority of my work.

I'm glad you have something you're happy with tho, hopefully as very happy as I am with my KS2. I might get a cheap mirrorless along the way for something to keep in the truck console instead of using just my camera phone, but to be honest between it and the Pentax 95% of my photo needs are covered satisfactorily so I don't see the wisdom of spending much on one.
I still use my K5... it's alot better now that it has a Canon EE-S screen in it. But it is my niche camera. I only use it when I shoot Extreme Bug Macros.

Here are some examples of my A7 images








05-16-2016, 08:39 AM - 1 Like   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
I still use my K5... it's alot better now that it has a Canon EE-S screen in it. But it is my niche camera. I only use it when I shoot Extreme Bug Macros.

Here are some examples of my A7 images
Very nice work. You obviously have really good technique and understand your equipment. I've only somewhat recently returned to (D)SLR ( thanks to a "special event" last year) after a looong time gone, so my talents are somewhat lacking. But I'm having fun learning all over again.

These are all with the KS2, but excuse the quality. More experienced shooters here are doing a whole lot more with Pentax but I'm slowly getting there. The first three were all shot Saturday morning.


Last edited by gatorguy; 05-16-2016 at 08:47 AM.
05-16-2016, 10:43 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
??? I can't follow this at all. How did you conclude this?
Come on, don't be a noob!
Mirrorless AF is far more predictable and covers far larger area. AF speed is good enough nowdays and AF precision easily surpasses the precision of DSLR. Lowlight AF performance surpasses one of DSLR. The shooting process is far more predictable as well: closer approximation to what we will see.

05-16-2016, 10:50 AM   #98
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That lowlight AF of the K1....oh, so terrible


Does Russia have the K1?
05-16-2016, 11:36 AM - 2 Likes   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Come on, don't be a noob!
Mirrorless AF is far more predictable and covers far larger area. AF speed is good enough nowdays and AF precision easily surpasses the precision of DSLR. Lowlight AF performance surpasses one of DSLR. The shooting process is far more predictable as well: closer approximation to what we will see.
What is it about you guys that you feel it is important to attack ad hominem. Noob? I have likely taken pictures since before you were born - and I have significant mirrorless experience including owning one of the finest m43 bodies made until recently. Where do you derive your position of superior knowledge to call me a Noob?

I left this thread but since you felt it important to quote me - let me just say that my K3 easily outperforms my Gx7 in focus performance. I don't think it is fair to conclude that focus performance in mirrorless is more precise than in DSLR's. In the recent past focusing in mirrorless systems lagged DSLR's by a considerable margin, recent improvements have helped considerably to get close to the same level. As for exposure accuracy? It is hilarious that this is even a topic. Unless you produce JPG only files and never manipulate them, the high dynamic range of most files puts the entire "what you see is what you get" argument into a tailspin since the final product may vary dramatically from any exposure selected due to desires to manipulate different parts of the exposure differently. Furthermore - my experience with mirrorless and dslr chimping is that neither of the LCD or EVF views is as accurate as displaying these on a large monitor. Finally, with ISO invariance, the seen is often not the final product in any case. This of course is also merely is a sensor property not a technical difference between mirrorless and dslr's implementations.

This rabid fanboy like behavior isn't convincing anyone. Rather than building up the product you support and laying out careful constructs of logic you and others in this thread have resorted to name calling and telling other people why their choices made with careful understanding of the pros and cons of the technology are objectively wrong not subjectively wrong. You make no allowance for different opinion and different weighting to criteria. You also seem hellbent on only talking about the minor areas where there may be advantages without addressing the complex whole which includes some minuses.

Frankly I'm happy I have mirrorless and dslr options in my stable, but there is nothing in my mirrorless experience so far that convinces me to abandon DSLR's. That said - I'm open to future developments - when I can pick up both an OVF and an EVF and not see a negative difference immediately in terms of responsiveness and accuracy of the view - I will still have other issues with moving away from my chosen platform due to investments in lenses. Giving up the ability to autofocus my FA Limited and DA Limited lenses is hard to fathom. I have started to accumulate some M43 items to see how this suits me, I have also tried some legacy glass manual focus. Manual focus on both platforms isn't great and while it is slightly better on my GX7 - it isn't good enough to warrant not using AF. I have used manual focus using a split prism screen for dozens upon dozens of years and find that provides the best experience in terms of manual focus.

But hey - keep beating the drums and stirring up things. I'm out of this fight because it bores me. I'm tired of laying out long logical constructs to have someone attack me and repeat a few tired phrases without further expansion of the details and without good comparison info including photos or videos of the problem and solutions.
05-16-2016, 12:46 PM   #100
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Well, considering the title of this thread, the last few pages are exactly what you'd expect...

Also, don't feed the trolls...
05-16-2016, 12:50 PM - 1 Like   #101
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Mirrorless versus SLR is a weird argument. If you can use one, then you can probably use the other. I think for most people, other than forum dwellers, these sorts of discussions are of minimal importance. They buy what they can afford, maybe based on a friend's recommendation, maybe based on online reviews, but I don't think they choose based on all of the weird minutia that we all focus on.

Sony makes nice cameras, no doubt about it. Pentax does too and so does Nikon. In the end, the question is about the image and if you can't get it with a particular piece of equipment, odds are more likely that it is due to your deficiencies as a photographer and not due to the gear itself.
05-16-2016, 03:41 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
But hey - keep beating the drums and stirring up things. I'm out of this fight because it bores me. I'm tired of laying out long logical constructs to have someone attack me and repeat a few tired phrases without further expansion of the details and without good comparison info including photos or videos of the problem and solutions.
oh brother i've laid out more logical constructs than everyone in this thread combined, only to see it attacked by people who don't know anything about mirrorless.

reh for instance has repeatedly told this forum how he focuses the camera with the aperture ring, because he can't set accurate focus with his ovf

i seriously doubt that your m4/3 camera even had a wysiwyg display, that's certainly not how oly does it, because with native lenses oly cameras hold the aperture wide open all the time... now how many of you really understand the implications of what was just said there?

sure emacs was trolling, lol, but his point about where mirrorless af is headed was true, dcbear alluded to some of it already in this thread, here is an example of the low-light capability:

Sony Alpha 7R II can match or beat DSLR low light AF performance: Digital Photography Review
05-16-2016, 04:29 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
the low-light capability
Most are aware that the 2nd version is VERY good from Sony, which is a little different to your statements of the price of that obsolete USED, first version that's under the K1 price.


AS far as low light capability goes, a 2015 $$$$$ony up against the cheap version Nikon and an OLD Canon....42mp versus low 20s, I wonder Y they didn't put it up against a Pentax !st?


Apples versus Oranges, not too far down the track, there will be a lowlight comparison on YT between the $ony and the K1.From what ive seen, the Sony does just OK.The K1 will be superior, make that SUPERIOR!
05-16-2016, 04:46 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
oh brother i've laid out more logical constructs than everyone in this thread combined, only to see it attacked by people who don't know anything about mirrorless.

reh for instance has repeatedly told this forum how he focuses the camera with the aperture ring, because he can't set accurate focus with his ovf

i seriously doubt that your m4/3 camera even had a wysiwyg display, that's certainly not how oly does it, because with native lenses oly cameras hold the aperture wide open all the time... now how many of you really understand the implications of what was just said there?
Please check before you assume. My m43 body is the Panasonic GX7 and you are incorrect.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3702312#forum-post-54060757

Note also the post that describes how this works includes a user describing the fact that he does not use this feature in bright light with LCD or EVF since it is difficult to fully judge. He only really uses it in dim light.

Let me take issue with the concept that you have laid out logical constructs. Most of what you have said boils down to Mirrorless is better because exposure accuracy is laid out for you in real time. But when I stated this was NOT a factor for me you felt it important to continue hammering this point despite it being a NON-factor for me. I don't work that way. I don't want to work that way. I just disabled that feature on my M43 GX7 because on that camera it was not helpful to me and it caused additional lag. Despite this you continued to act as though I was stupid and needed an education when I assure you I understand the trade-offs and PREFER a DSLR, but I will shoot either as the situation warrants.

Logic dictates that if someone lays out a detailed description of their likes and dislikes and you ignore it and continue as though your point was the only one that mattered that you are not in an argument you are in a shouting match. There is no purpose in that here. If you would have simply looked up the GX7 you would have understood I'm not an idiot and I know what I don't want. Despite all of that - I see potential in mirrorless and I want to stay current - so I have two reasonably current devices and for the ILC I have 5 lenses. This pales next to my 20+ for Pentax but still it's a start.

Last edited by UncleVanya; 05-16-2016 at 05:08 PM.
05-16-2016, 05:10 PM - 1 Like   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
... now how many of you really understand the implications of what was just said there?
I wouldn't like to speak for others, but I'd think many here understand the technical implication of your reference. Why would you hold yourself above the discussion by referring to "you"? I think an equal number of people here understand the implications of that, as well.
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