Is the A-mount dead/end of the SLT

Kunzite · 10-02-2016, 07:02 AM

Once again, I'm not disagreeing with the first part of your post; the street prices are an easily verifiable fact.
What I'm doubtful about, is your assumption about the A7 II having - 3-5 years from now, which means a camera age of 4-6+ years - a significantly lower street price than the A7 has now. That's a faster price drop than that of the A7, and might imply keeping 3 same line models in production.

Anyway... we're not going anywhere with this. So please wait for your 500-700 euro brand new FF camera, 5 years from now. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't happen.
And, have a nice day.

Nicolas06 · 10-02-2016, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Once again, I'm not disagreeing with the first part of your post; the street prices are an easily verifiable fact.
What I'm doubtful about, is your assumption about the A7 II having - 3-5 years from now, which means a camera age of 4-6+ years - a significantly lower street price than the A7 has now. That's a faster price drop than that of the A7, and might imply keeping 3 same line models in production.

Anyway... we're not going anywhere with this. So please wait for your 500-700 euro brand new FF camera, 5 years from now. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't happen.
And, have a nice day.

Don't wait for it, that way you'll not be surprised when it does happen

. And I don't say it will be A7-II, it might be a dedicated low cost model, it might appear first in another brand/manufacturer. For Sony, at the pace they go it might be very called A7-III or A7-IV or even on another mount...

rawr · 10-02-2016, 07:28 PM

Speaking of A-mount and the new A99 II, I was impressed to see Sony say it can do 12 fps. 42MP at 12fps means moving a whole lot of data.

Doing 12fps while also running continuous AF with 79/399 AF points + metering between frames + maintaining 5 axis stabilisation + driving the EVF etc etc is more impressive still. Crazy amounts of computing power involved.

**clackers** · 10-02-2016, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Speaking of A-mount and the new A99 II, I was impressed to see Sony say it can do 12 fps. 42MP at 12fps means moving a whole lot of data.

Doing 12fps while also running continuous AF with 79/399 AF points + metering between frames + maintaining 5 axis stabilisation + driving the EVF etc etc is more impressive still. Crazy amounts of computing power involved.

Yeah, they might have put a second CPU in there to help the data throughput, which is I think what Canon did with their 1Dx vs the 5D Mk III.

philbaum · 10-02-2016, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Yeah, they might have put a second CPU in there to help the data throughput, which is I think what Canon did with their 1Dx vs the 5D Mk III.

Yep, Nikon has a second processor in their D5 for the same reason, i think. This may also be the reason that Sony won't let the A-mount die. In a smallish body like the A7 series, there is a limit to what you can cram into a small body and not have heat problems. If Sony wants to compete fully with Canon and Nikon, they probably need the A-mount to provide a big enough case to do that. I suppose Sony could build a bigger body around the FE mount, but then they would still be missing some of the A-mount lenses and some other features. So i'm speculating that the A99II is not some gift for the existing A-mount owners but is part of a bigger plan.

D1N0 · 10-03-2016, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by clackers

Yeah, they might have put a second CPU in there to help the data throughput, which is I think what Canon did with their 1Dx vs the 5D Mk III.

They have something called a front end LSI (Large Scale Integration, but that is an old term from seventies computer chips...... chips nowadays are VLSI and ULSI) Basically a secondary processor that does AF and sensor read out and file writing calculations.

Originally posted by sony:

Rapid processing for super-high-precision data

The newly developed front-end LSI boosts BIONZ X processing of vast amounts of image data sent from the 42.4MP CMOS sensor, enabling BIONZ X to achieve higher image quality and speed.

reh321 · 10-03-2016, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by clackers

Yeah, they might have put a second CPU in there to help the data throughput, which is I think what Canon did with their 1Dx vs the 5D Mk III.

Originally posted by D1N0

They have something called a front end LSI (Large Scale Integration, but that is an old term from seventies computer chips...... chips nowadays are VLSI and ULSI) Basically a secondary processor that does AF and sensor read out and file writing calculations.

The Pentax K-70's "accelerator" appears to serve that function also.

D1N0 · 10-03-2016, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by reh321

The Pentax K-70's "accelerator" appears to serve that function also.

That is back end, for jpeg processing.

RonHendriks1966 · 10-03-2016, 08:57 AM

Maybe the industrie is shifting it's attention from the megapixel race towards processing power. This a99ii could do video in 8k at 12p if the codec would be in it. A good step towards having 8k video at 24p in the future. Something that is going to be live at the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo.

Nicolas06 · 10-03-2016, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Maybe the industrie is shifting it's attention from the megapixel race towards processing power. This a99ii could do video in 8k at 12p if the codec would be in it. A good step towards having 8k video at 24p in the future. Something that is going to be live at the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo.

The dedicated video camera already exist I think. Not the same price of course. Most people don't have the required bionic eyes to leverage that, unfortunately.

As for processing power and software in general, that make lot of sense if they can really leverage to make things clients would pay for.

Here honestly, I don't care much if my camera is doing 12FPS or 8.3FPS like the K3 itself is doing, I am more likely to ask the camera to even slow down to more practical 4-5FPS so...

I mean 12FPS usefull and lot of processing power is nice and many will be impressed by the specs but only a small fractions of their client would use it. To reverse trends of reduced sales etc, We need more than just more of the same: people already are not buying that much anymore because their previous gen gear is more than they need...

rawr · 10-03-2016, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Nicolas06

We need more than just more of the same:

Be careful what you wish for ...

Soon it will all be intelligent drones performing photographers jobs, even indoors. Compact, sensor-rich drones like today's DJI Mavic Pro, ZeroTech Dobby, the Teal drone etc are a sure sign of things to come.

In just a few years, I bet, brides will be hiring drones to entirely shoot their own weddings, and the drones will be equipped with enough deep learning intelligence to do a good job shooting video and images of all the customary wedding scenes indoors and out without any instruction.

D1N0 · 10-03-2016, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Be careful what you wish for ...

Soon it will all be intelligent drones performing photographers jobs, even indoors. Compact, sensor-rich drones like today's DJI Mavic Pro, ZeroTech Dobby, the Teal drone etc are a sure sign of things to come.

In just a few years, I bet, brides will be hiring drones to entirely shoot their own weddings, and the drones will be equipped with enough deep learning intelligence to do a good job shooting video and images of all the customary wedding scenes indoors and out without any instruction.

Drones make a lot of noise and people worry about screw drive AF

Pioneer · 10-03-2016, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Nicolas06

The dedicated video camera already exist I think. Not the same price of course. Most people don't have the required bionic eyes to leverage that, unfortunately.

As for processing power and software in general, that make lot of sense if they can really leverage to make things clients would pay for.

Here honestly, I don't care much if my camera is doing 12FPS or 8.3FPS like the K3 itself is doing, I am more likely to ask the camera to even slow down to more practical 4-5FPS so...

I mean 12FPS usefull and lot of processing power is nice and many will be impressed by the specs but only a small fractions of their client would use it. To reverse trends of reduced sales etc, We need more than just more of the same: people already are not buying that much anymore because their previous gen gear is more than they need...

I think I agree with this. I already did not buy a K3 or K3ii or K1 because my K5iiS gives me plenty of everything I need in a camera of any kind, film or digital. Although I am certainly following all the news on this new Sony with great interest, it has nothing to do with the enhanced resolution or through put. What I am interested in is focus speed. This camera has it in spades. I won't be buying one right away but I am certainly going to try and rent one just to test the quality of the camera and the speed of focus. A shutter with a 300,000 actuation rating and this kind of focus speed is really tempting.

I had sincerely hoped that Ricoh would dramatically improve their auto focus speeds with the new K-1 but sadly that is not the case.

D1N0 · 10-03-2016, 03:27 PM

This is not a thread for whining about the k-1

Nicolas06 · 10-03-2016, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by D1N0

Drones make a lot of noise and ~~people~~ photographers worry about screw drive AF

Until know the only persons that I encountered that care of screw drive AF are photographers. Other people don't mind.

People mind big camera, big lenses, they mind overall being photographied and for many non pro model, you can get a better result being innobtrusive. This doesn't prevent pro to have big/heavy, quite noticable gear, the worst maybe the white Canon lenses that is even more visible (on purpose).

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10-02-2016, 07:02 AM	#106
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Once again, I'm not disagreeing with the first part of your post; the street prices are an easily verifiable fact. What I'm doubtful about, is your assumption about the A7 II having - 3-5 years from now, which means a camera age of 4-6+ years - a significantly lower street price than the A7 has now. That's a faster price drop than that of the A7, and might imply keeping 3 same line models in production. Anyway... we're not going anywhere with this. So please wait for your 500-700 euro brand new FF camera, 5 years from now. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't happen. And, have a nice day.

10-02-2016, 07:06 AM	#107
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by Kunzite Once again, I'm not disagreeing with the first part of your post; the street prices are an easily verifiable fact. What I'm doubtful about, is your assumption about the A7 II having - 3-5 years from now, which means a camera age of 4-6+ years - a significantly lower street price than the A7 has now. That's a faster price drop than that of the A7, and might imply keeping 3 same line models in production. Anyway... we're not going anywhere with this. So please wait for your 500-700 euro brand new FF camera, 5 years from now. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't happen. And, have a nice day. Don't wait for it, that way you'll not be surprised when it does happen . And I don't say it will be A7-II, it might be a dedicated low cost model, it might appear first in another brand/manufacturer. For Sony, at the pace they go it might be very called A7-III or A7-IV or even on another mount...

10-02-2016, 07:28 PM	#108
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Speaking of A-mount and the new A99 II, I was impressed to see Sony say it can do 12 fps. 42MP at 12fps means moving a whole lot of data. Doing 12fps while also running continuous AF with 79/399 AF points + metering between frames + maintaining 5 axis stabilisation + driving the EVF etc etc is more impressive still. Crazy amounts of computing power involved.

10-02-2016, 07:31 PM	#109
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by rawr Speaking of A-mount and the new A99 II, I was impressed to see Sony say it can do 12 fps. 42MP at 12fps means moving a whole lot of data. Doing 12fps while also running continuous AF with 79/399 AF points + metering between frames + maintaining 5 axis stabilisation + driving the EVF etc etc is more impressive still. Crazy amounts of computing power involved. Yeah, they might have put a second CPU in there to help the data throughput, which is I think what Canon did with their 1Dx vs the 5D Mk III.

10-02-2016, 11:26 PM	#110
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by clackers Yeah, they might have put a second CPU in there to help the data throughput, which is I think what Canon did with their 1Dx vs the 5D Mk III. Yep, Nikon has a second processor in their D5 for the same reason, i think. This may also be the reason that Sony won't let the A-mount die. In a smallish body like the A7 series, there is a limit to what you can cram into a small body and not have heat problems. If Sony wants to compete fully with Canon and Nikon, they probably need the A-mount to provide a big enough case to do that. I suppose Sony could build a bigger body around the FE mount, but then they would still be missing some of the A-mount lenses and some other features. So i'm speculating that the A99II is not some gift for the existing A-mount owners but is part of a bigger plan.

10-03-2016, 01:22 AM	#111
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802 Original Poster	Originally posted by clackers Yeah, they might have put a second CPU in there to help the data throughput, which is I think what Canon did with their 1Dx vs the 5D Mk III. They have something called a front end LSI (Large Scale Integration, but that is an old term from seventies computer chips...... chips nowadays are VLSI and ULSI) Basically a secondary processor that does AF and sensor read out and file writing calculations. Originally posted by sony: Rapid processing for super-high-precision data The newly developed front-end LSI boosts BIONZ X processing of vast amounts of image data sent from the 42.4MP CMOS sensor, enabling BIONZ X to achieve higher image quality and speed.

10-03-2016, 08:21 AM	#112
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,184	Originally posted by clackers Yeah, they might have put a second CPU in there to help the data throughput, which is I think what Canon did with their 1Dx vs the 5D Mk III. Originally posted by D1N0 They have something called a front end LSI (Large Scale Integration, but that is an old term from seventies computer chips...... chips nowadays are VLSI and ULSI) Basically a secondary processor that does AF and sensor read out and file writing calculations. The Pentax K-70's "accelerator" appears to serve that function also.

10-03-2016, 08:26 AM	#113
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802 Original Poster	Originally posted by reh321 The Pentax K-70's "accelerator" appears to serve that function also. That is back end, for jpeg processing.

10-03-2016, 08:57 AM	#114
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Maybe the industrie is shifting it's attention from the megapixel race towards processing power. This a99ii could do video in 8k at 12p if the codec would be in it. A good step towards having 8k video at 24p in the future. Something that is going to be live at the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo.

10-03-2016, 09:15 AM	#115
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Maybe the industrie is shifting it's attention from the megapixel race towards processing power. This a99ii could do video in 8k at 12p if the codec would be in it. A good step towards having 8k video at 24p in the future. Something that is going to be live at the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo. The dedicated video camera already exist I think. Not the same price of course. Most people don't have the required bionic eyes to leverage that, unfortunately. As for processing power and software in general, that make lot of sense if they can really leverage to make things clients would pay for. Here honestly, I don't care much if my camera is doing 12FPS or 8.3FPS like the K3 itself is doing, I am more likely to ask the camera to even slow down to more practical 4-5FPS so... I mean 12FPS usefull and lot of processing power is nice and many will be impressed by the specs but only a small fractions of their client would use it. To reverse trends of reduced sales etc, We need more than just more of the same: people already are not buying that much anymore because their previous gen gear is more than they need...

10-03-2016, 01:06 PM	#116
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Nicolas06 We need more than just more of the same: Be careful what you wish for ... Soon it will all be intelligent drones performing photographers jobs, even indoors. Compact, sensor-rich drones like today's DJI Mavic Pro, ZeroTech Dobby, the Teal drone etc are a sure sign of things to come. In just a few years, I bet, brides will be hiring drones to entirely shoot their own weddings, and the drones will be equipped with enough deep learning intelligence to do a good job shooting video and images of all the customary wedding scenes indoors and out without any instruction.

10-03-2016, 02:16 PM	#117
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802 Original Poster	Originally posted by rawr Be careful what you wish for ... Soon it will all be intelligent drones performing photographers jobs, even indoors. Compact, sensor-rich drones like today's DJI Mavic Pro, ZeroTech Dobby, the Teal drone etc are a sure sign of things to come. In just a few years, I bet, brides will be hiring drones to entirely shoot their own weddings, and the drones will be equipped with enough deep learning intelligence to do a good job shooting video and images of all the customary wedding scenes indoors and out without any instruction. Drones make a lot of noise and people worry about screw drive AF

10-03-2016, 02:40 PM	#118
Pioneer Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wandering the Streets Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,411	Originally posted by Nicolas06 The dedicated video camera already exist I think. Not the same price of course. Most people don't have the required bionic eyes to leverage that, unfortunately. As for processing power and software in general, that make lot of sense if they can really leverage to make things clients would pay for. Here honestly, I don't care much if my camera is doing 12FPS or 8.3FPS like the K3 itself is doing, I am more likely to ask the camera to even slow down to more practical 4-5FPS so... I mean 12FPS usefull and lot of processing power is nice and many will be impressed by the specs but only a small fractions of their client would use it. To reverse trends of reduced sales etc, We need more than just more of the same: people already are not buying that much anymore because their previous gen gear is more than they need... I think I agree with this. I already did not buy a K3 or K3ii or K1 because my K5iiS gives me plenty of everything I need in a camera of any kind, film or digital. Although I am certainly following all the news on this new Sony with great interest, it has nothing to do with the enhanced resolution or through put. What I am interested in is focus speed. This camera has it in spades. I won't be buying one right away but I am certainly going to try and rent one just to test the quality of the camera and the speed of focus. A shutter with a 300,000 actuation rating and this kind of focus speed is really tempting. I had sincerely hoped that Ricoh would dramatically improve their auto focus speeds with the new K-1 but sadly that is not the case.

10-03-2016, 03:27 PM	#119
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802 Original Poster	This is not a thread for whining about the k-1

10-03-2016, 10:56 PM	#120
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by D1N0 Drones make a lot of noise and ~~people~~ photographers worry about screw drive AF Until know the only persons that I encountered that care of screw drive AF are photographers. Other people don't mind. People mind big camera, big lenses, they mind overall being photographied and for many non pro model, you can get a better result being innobtrusive. This doesn't prevent pro to have big/heavy, quite noticable gear, the worst maybe the white Canon lenses that is even more visible (on purpose).