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09-15-2016, 02:41 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
I do, however, have questions about lens selection (my guess is that we won't see any lenses that quite match Canon's high-end L glass) and the handling of the camera (no front scroll wheel, and why must we have an exposure compensation dial on such a small body? Obviously a lousy camera for those of us who shoot in manual).
(emphasis added)


At the time, I had thought that that ring around the shutter release button looked like it could be a front scroll wheel, but it wasn't until seeing the actual specs and previews today that we can be sure it is.

09-15-2016, 04:05 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Same as K1!
The k-1 has much more and better lenses. This is a new mount with mainly consumer grade zooms and a few primes.
09-15-2016, 05:15 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
much more
How much more?.....I count 5 zooms and 3 primes(and 2 focal lengths, the difference being WR)
09-15-2016, 05:19 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
The k-1 has much more and better lenses. This is a new mount with mainly consumer grade zooms and a few primes.
Which is appropriate for a consumer grade camera.
The average consumer doesn't actually need very many lenses, BTW.

My dream camera would be a K-02, with the body based on a K-70, but having an EVF and using "Q" technology - two dedicated lenses {18-55 and 55-300}, each with an in-lens leaf shutter, and an adapter with leaf shutter that would allow me to use any K-mount lens {with an MILC, I don't see any reason to ever open the aperture fully, so the "crippled mount" issue goes away}. Did I mention I love the quietness of the "Q"s leaf shutter? I know this won't happen, but it would be a consumer oriented camera that could also meet the needs of slightly more advanced users like me. Canon is sufficiently large that they can afford to explore possibilities like this.

09-15-2016, 05:54 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
My dream camera
We can all dream, lots do.....camera companies Don't!
09-15-2016, 11:02 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
No 4k. Maybe Canon will come with yet a higher specced one. But they don't have enough native lenses.
Folks complained about Sony building bodies before they had enough lenses but those kind of complaints are good for a mfr to hear. As the lenses got built, the complaining dropped off. Canon should just build the FF mirrorless body if the EOS m-mount is capable of that. And they can provide an Canon adapter to use their EF lenses with the new mirrorless model. And then build a native lens or two
09-16-2016, 02:50 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
How much more?.....I count 5 zooms and 3 primes(and 2 focal lengths, the difference being WR)
Because you want to be contrary

09-16-2016, 04:26 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Originally posted by surfar
How much more?.....I count 5 zooms and 3 primes(and 2 focal lengths, the difference being WR)
Because you want to be contrary
when ever people talk about how much lens a system has, this meme comes to mind
09-16-2016, 12:31 PM   #39
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This looks like a fantastic little body! Could this be a Canon for Canon enthusiasts or is Canon trying to win someone over? Taking market share away from u4/3 and E-mount is going to be tough.
09-16-2016, 01:25 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
This looks like a fantastic little body! Could this be a Canon for Canon enthusiasts or is Canon trying to win someone over? Taking market share away from u4/3 and E-mount is going to be tough.
I am guessing this is a defensive maneuver. Two years ago, when I was a Canon user, Canon had a funky countdown on their web-site. A number of Canon users got quite excited, because there was a rumor that Canon was finally going to release a worthy MILC. It turned out to be just the launch of some marketing campaign, and Nikon users made fun of the Canon users. My belief is that MILC is going to show real strength in the lower priced market, and Canon may also see that as a possibility. That is why they wouldn't need many native lenses.

Last edited by reh321; 09-16-2016 at 01:44 PM. Reason: fixed spellilng
09-16-2016, 01:32 PM   #41
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Body only price U$ 979...sample images simply stunning.
09-18-2016, 10:25 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
......

The larger point is that if Canon were to come out with a well designed mirrorless camera along with some high-end lenses comparable to L glass (but much smaller — and no adapters please!), they could seize the number one spot in mirrorless ILC sales from Sony in the matter of a few years. So why don't they do that? The common excuse is that they don't want cannibalize their DSLR business; but that excuse has never made sense to me.

I think managers of large corporations often lose touch mentally with their customers. Somehow, they start thinking that their customers have the same view of their products as the managers do. General Motors was of the opinion that American customers only wanted large cars, till Volkswagon and Renault shipped over some small cars after ww2 and sold tons of them.

The trend in mirrorless is heavily biased toward EVF cameras, and that's because cameras without EVFs don't sell as well and often lose a lot money. Olympus and Sony lost loads of money with their Pens and Nex 3 and 5's.

For good reason, in bright sunlight, one can't see any kind of LCD screen as well as an EVF.


Some people (mostly mirrorless fanboys?) aren't bothered by putting a big lens on a small camera; but many people are bothered by the awkwardness of such an arrangement, and if the future is large heavy lenses attached to small cameras, that's a very dark future indeed.

Well, count me as an enthusiastic mirrorless fanboy. A large lens that i only use for short periods of time is not a bother to me if its infrequent. I often wonder why this bothers DSLR owners so much. 95% of my mirrorless use is lenses that are 85mm or less. For them, there's a substantial weight savings of mirrorless over DSLRs, IMO. I would note that even Hasselblad made a MF mirrorless recently. If i was a Canon manager, i would push for a FF mirrorless, at least 1 model, and let the customers decide which they want to buy. What is Canon afraid of - too much success At some point, i would probably shift from a Sony FF mirrorless to a Canon FF mirrorless, if they would make one.

Given that none of the L lenses were designed to be used on tiny cameras, "useable as it was designed" strikes me as a bit of a stretch. I've used large lenses on a small mirrorless camera and it's not an experience I remember fondly.
My normal lenses are smallish, even though they are at least F2. I won't buy heavy f2.8 zoom lenses, just because of your reason. As i said before, if its a heavy lens, say 2 lbs, that i will only use infrequently, then i wouldn't mind it. .
09-19-2016, 12:44 PM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Many people today don't hold a camera "properly" {as we were taught to do it 30+ years ago when I got my first SLR - a Pentax, incidentally}. Partly because of the need to focus, partly because of the ergonomics of the equipment of the day, we were taught to hold the camera with the right hand and support a long lens with the left hand; today, lots of people seem to want an enormous grip on the camera so they can hold the whole thing with the right hand. To me, that is as dumb as the full "zombie" hold. If you hold one with each hand, you have a very stable hold, it is not awkward at all, and it puts less stress on the mount.
The primary reason for a grip is not for right hand shooting but for better handling. For many photographers, it's just easier, when shooting with a heavy lens, to have a camera with a large grip. When I was doing volunteer photography for the local zoo, I found I was having trouble holding my DA* 300 and Tamy 70-200 steady enough to get tack sharp shots with the K-5. The grip was just too small, especially when shooting in portrait orientation. This had absolutely nothing to do with one-handed shooting, as you can't really shoot one handed with lenses weighing two and a half pounds and not get shake blur in any case. Adding an extra grip solved the problem, and now I occasionally see my photos on bus adds when driving around town.

If you like shooting large lenses on very small camera bodies, that option will always be available, especially for those willing to use adapters; so I'm not sure why anyone considers that an issue. My only point was that if Canon wants to take over the mirrorless market, it might not be such a bad idea to make some high quality small glass for those of us who find that smaller glass handles better on small cameras but who also want to use the very best lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I think managers of large corporations often lose touch mentally with their customers. Somehow, they start thinking that their customers have the same view of their products as the managers do.
Probably so. But perhaps another issue is that they're listening to the wrong customers. Canon's and Nikon's high end equipment seems geared most toward the needs of professional event photographers. The problem is that professional photographers make up only a very small fraction of even the high-end market; which means the needs of non-professional, non-event photographers are often given short shrift. Mirrorless cameras have helped open things up a little bit by offering the option for much smaller cameras (especially when compared to the big FF pro cams). But they clearly haven't gone far enough. Like Canon and Nikon, the mirrorless brands still seem to believe that their very best lenses must be their fast aperture lenses, even though those of us who are landscape/travel/architecture photographers don't need f2.8 zooms, but might like a zoom lens that's just as good at f8-f11.

I suspect part of the problem is that mirrorless companies are still operating from what is largely a DSLR mindset. In the DSLR world, the best zooms tend to be the big f2.8 monsters. So all the mirrorless companies (except Leica) believe that their best zoom lenses must be f2.8 as well, even though it makes less sense on mirrorless where smaller size and weight are your best selling points. So if you want to shoot with the very best standard zoom lenses from Olympus, Fuji, or Sony, you have to choose the f2.8 option. What about those of us who are landscape or travel photographers and don't need the f2.8 but would like the very best quality?
09-19-2016, 12:59 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
If you like shooting large lenses on very small camera bodies, that option will always be available, especially for those willing to use adapters; so I'm not sure why anyone considers that an issue. My only point was that if Canon wants to take over the mirrorless market, it might not be such a bad idea to make some high quality small glass for those of us who find that smaller glass handles better on small cameras but who also want to use the very best lenses.
Looking at another thread in this same section, that may simply not be an option
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/330...ess-dslrs.html

---------- Post added 09-19-16 at 04:27 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
The primary reason for a grip is not for right hand shooting but for better handling. For many photographers, it's just easier, when shooting with a heavy lens, to have a camera with a large grip. When I was doing volunteer photography for the local zoo, I found I was having trouble holding my DA* 300 and Tamy 70-200 steady enough to get tack sharp shots with the K-5. The grip was just too small, especially when shooting in portrait orientation. This had absolutely nothing to do with one-handed shooting, as you can't really shoot one handed with lenses weighing two and a half pounds and not get shake blur in any case. Adding an extra grip solved the problem, and now I occasionally see my photos on bus adds when driving around town.
Are you one of those guys who rotates a camera into portrait position by placing your right hand on the upper left corner of the camera, thereby putting your elbow in the air in an inherently unstable position??

I had absolutely no problems holding my K-30 steady with an aging {and therefore large} Tamron AdaptAll 60-300mm lens; I supported most of the weight with my left hand and provided stability with my right hand. I am also aware of a Sony user {perhaps no longer active here} who used the same lens. When you're using that size lens, IBIS is a big help, but shutter speed as important as anything else in getting needle sharp pictures

Last edited by reh321; 09-19-2016 at 02:27 PM.
09-21-2016, 09:50 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
When you're using that size lens, IBIS is a big help, but shutter speed as important as anything else in getting needle sharp pictures
You're right, shutter speed is important, which is why I need the bigger grip. For my zoo photography, I'm shooting in overcast light at the edge of redwood forest. Upping the shutter speed is not an option for me.

Shooting in portrait orientation without an added grip necessitates twisting one's wrist at a less than optimal angle. That's fine when shooting with the DA 21, but with the DA* 300, it's sure nice to have that additional shutter button on the battery grip and to be able to grip the camera with my strong hand while balancing the heavy lens with my off hand.

I wonder if it's easier, additional grip or no grip, to balance large lenses if you're left-handed?
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