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09-21-2016, 02:10 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
We still don't know how fast it operates and how quick the AF is. I didn't think the 50MP medium format sensor supported PDAF on sensor which means the Fuji GFX will be slow to focus in all but great light..
How so? There's plenty of mirrorless cameras that only have CDAF and are plenty fast focussing on static subjects (obviously tracking is a different story, but I winter how important tracking AF would be on a camera like this?)

09-21-2016, 02:18 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by nickthetasmaniac Quote
How so? There's plenty of mirrorless cameras that only have CDAF and are plenty fast focussing on static subjects (obviously tracking is a different story, but I winter how important tracking AF would be on a camera like this?)
CDAF (Contrast Detection Auto-Focus) is dependent on having good contrast. Low-light/contrast scenes have always been a problem. Good light they are quick enough, but even under modeling lights they can struggle. Now admittedly I have not used a pure CDAF in a few years, so it might be better than it was, but if that were the case Sony would not be putting so many PDAF points on sensors to improve AF.

---------- Post added 09-21-16 at 04:22 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
Yes, as Rondec mentioned, this Fuji is 'huge' - price wise, they said "way under 10k" for a combo that include that pretty neat EVF. Being mirrorless, many see their non Fuji MF lenses now have a place to mount on to. It is, also about the lenses they put out, not only WR, they already have that 110mm f2 lens, which likely to have wedding photographer rush to get it.... you know the price of getting Hassy 110mm f2 lens adapted to Pentax 645 by bokeh factory? it's crazy money. With Pentax 645Z, the somewhat 'native' fast lens is the 67 105mm f2.4 lens.

This Fuji is huge.
And who will be the first to release an adapter for old 6x6 Hassey MF lenses to fit the new Fuji? The Hassy V-system came out in 1948 and there are loads of old 6x6 Zeiss glass sitting out there at "reasonable" prices for that mount. I use to drool over the 503CW.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hasselblad-80mm-2-8-CF-T-Carl-Zeiss-Planar-Lens-F2-8...IAAOSwMtxXvd97

Last edited by Winder; 09-21-2016 at 02:25 PM.
09-22-2016, 04:55 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Now admittedly I have not used a pure CDAF in a few years, so it might be better than it was.
From my experience with Micro Four a thirds, the speed of CDAF, even in mediocre light, improved massively in the first few generations. Might be worth a revisit...
09-22-2016, 10:24 AM   #34
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Fuji's cameras a good looking, well-built, innovative and fun to use. I own one. But I can't imagine what I would do with even more resolution than my K-1 provides. In film days, medium format was about the only way to get crisp, grain-free 16x20s, but we're far beyond that level now.

09-22-2016, 11:32 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatridger Quote
Fuji's cameras a good looking, well-built, innovative and fun to use. I own one. But I can't imagine what I would do with even more resolution than my K-1 provides. In film days, medium format was about the only way to get crisp, grain-free 16x20s, but we're far beyond that level now.
i owned the 645z for around 6 months.. believe me, you can get use to this resolution and dynamic range very quickly anyway i am also very happy with my K-1
09-22-2016, 01:22 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by nickthetasmaniac Quote
From my experience with Micro Four a thirds, the speed of CDAF, even in mediocre light, improved massively in the first few generations. Might be worth a revisit...
The new M4/3 bodies all have PDAF on sensor. Even the soon to be discontinued Olympus OMD-EM1 has 37 PDAF points on the sensor with 81 CDAF.
09-23-2016, 07:12 AM - 1 Like   #37
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People talk about MF being niche products and question how well they will sell.
Hasselblad X1D 4116 Edition and V1D Prototype

"Hasselblad sold more X1D cameras in 10 days, than they expected to sell in a year".

Looks like a money maker to me. That adds up to even more glass.

09-23-2016, 09:10 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
"Hasselblad sold more X1D cameras in 10 days, than they expected to sell in a year".
I would like to hear a number, but that's me.
09-23-2016, 09:16 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
People talk about MF being niche products and question how well they will sell.
Hasselblad X1D 4116 Edition and V1D Prototype

"Hasselblad sold more X1D cameras in 10 days, than they expected to sell in a year".

Looks like a money maker to me. That adds up to even more glass.
I don't really know what that means. To me, it probably means that Hassy sells cameras in the hundreds rather than even the thousands.
09-23-2016, 10:55 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I would like to hear a number, but that's me.
I agree. Let's see some actual numbers. I remember seeing some absurdly low numbers for the entire MF market a few years ago. I guess the 645Z, due to its affordability factor may have adjusted the expectations upwards. Then again maybe selling something like 200 units for Hassy spells success!!
09-23-2016, 11:48 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
I agree. Let's see some actual numbers. I remember seeing some absurdly low numbers for the entire MF market a few years ago. I guess the 645Z, due to its affordability factor may have adjusted the expectations upwards. Then again maybe selling something like 200 units for Hassy spells success!!
It is really hard for me to believe that any medium format camera sells in significant volumes. The 645Z is running 7000 dollars with most of the lenses in the 1000 to 2000 range. Compare that to the cheapest full frame cameras which are just a little below 1500 dollars now and lenses are relatively inexpensive.

It has been mentioned that there are full frame cameras that are in the 6000 dollar range. That's true, but they are also cameras like the D5 which have really high frame rates, deep buffers and amazing auto focus systems -- certainly not the sort of cameras that a 6000 dollar medium format camera will be competing with.

The cost difference alone makes the market swing how it does. There have to be thousands more D610s sold than D5s, purely due to the difference in price.
09-23-2016, 11:05 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The new M4/3 bodies all have PDAF on sensor. Even the soon to be discontinued Olympus OMD-EM1 has 37 PDAF points on the sensor with 81 CDAF.
I'm aware of that, but my experience (and the basis for my comment) has been with the GH2 and EM5, neither of which have PDAF on sensor and both of which have very usable CDAF.
09-24-2016, 06:03 AM   #43
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it's big

---------- Post added 09-24-2016 at 06:04 AM ----------

??????????????????GFX??? - ???? Watch

---------- Post added 09-24-2016 at 06:05 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
People talk about MF being niche products and question how well they will sell.
Hasselblad X1D 4116 Edition and V1D Prototype

"Hasselblad sold more X1D cameras in 10 days, than they expected to sell in a year".

Looks like a money maker to me. That adds up to even more glass.
The sales is a bit postponed. What did they talk about?

---------- Post added 09-24-2016 at 06:09 AM ----------

There is one problem with mirrorless MF cameras - overheating of sensor.
Don't be surprised if the camera switch off during shooting.

For studio work - the size of camera has no any difference.

I thought that there are only two places where the size is important for mirrorless MF cameras. Street shooting and travel to extreme places, where the weight is serious problem. But when I see GFX with lens and battery grip, I understand that no any advantages against 645Z.

The smaller size and smaller weight = weaker battery. Mirrorless needs more energy and more batteries for travel.

Small size, if your arms are big, is not comfortable too. There are many factors.

Last edited by ogl; 09-24-2016 at 06:11 AM.
09-24-2016, 06:19 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by nickthetasmaniac Quote
I'm aware of that, but my experience (and the basis for my comment) has been with the GH2 and EM5, neither of which have PDAF on sensor and both of which have very usable CDAF.
In good light. Yes. High contrast scenes are easy for CDAF. The problem is with lower light an low contrast subjects. Its just like using a K-3 in live view. One advantage the GH2 and EM5 have is that all of their lenses are designed for CDAF. Pentax glass is designed for PDAF and CDAF is often erratic with lenses for PDAF systems.

As sensors get better and processing power increases CDAF will get better. The more sensitive sensors become the more sensitive CDAF becomes.

---------- Post added 09-24-16 at 08:40 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is really hard for me to believe that any medium format camera sells in significant volumes. The 645Z is running 7000 dollars with most of the lenses in the 1000 to 2000 range. Compare that to the cheapest full frame cameras which are just a little below 1500 dollars now and lenses are relatively inexpensive.

It has been mentioned that there are full frame cameras that are in the 6000 dollar range. That's true, but they are also cameras like the D5 which have really high frame rates, deep buffers and amazing auto focus systems -- certainly not the sort of cameras that a 6000 dollar medium format camera will be competing with.

The cost difference alone makes the market swing how it does. There have to be thousands more D610s sold than D5s, purely due to the difference in price.
Phase One makes the 100MP XF sells for $50,000. Phase One sells enough of them to justify making them and that is all that matters.
09-24-2016, 08:07 AM   #45
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Kolor-Pikker found a side-by-side of the Fuji with a Nikon D810:



If anything, the Nikon might be bulkier.

---------- Post added 09-24-16 at 09:15 AM ----------

The challenge for good CDAF is the frame rate -- how fast can Fuji get data off that huge sensor to update the AF calculations.

That's also going to be an issue for the EVF.

Last edited by photoptimist; 09-24-2016 at 08:09 AM. Reason: converted URL to IMG
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