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10-21-2016, 06:21 PM   #16
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The Oly 25mm 1.8 is a premium lens. The Plastic Fantastic DA35 2.4 punches above its weight but it's a 100something dollar lens. And it's still sharp wide open by the way, like most Pentax primes are. I'll say this though... You haven't yet experienced what a premium Pentax lens is like. Only the cheapest budget ones.

But at the end of the day, just pick the one system you enjoy the most... Unless you can maintain multiple systems... It seems like you have an idea about what matters most to you.


Last edited by ChristianRock; 10-21-2016 at 06:26 PM.
10-21-2016, 06:37 PM   #17
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Well, I just bought an Olympus OM-D EM-10 from KEH for $275 in LN+ condition. I just received it yesterday, along with a panny 14-42mm II lens and a lens a bought on Ebay, a Rokinon 7.5mm Fisheye.

Today I did a little shooting in the back yard and at my shop using these lenses and camera, along with some legacy M42 lenses.

So far, I think this little camera is a real keeper! I've been hiking for the past couple of years with a D600 and 4 lenses as well as a large format 4x5 film camera. I wanted to get a light weight kit for some of my more extreme hikes.

Here's a couple of samples I shot today, none are great, but I am happy with what I am getting out of the camera.

Rokinon 7.5mm F3.5 fisheye at close focus (around 4" from the lens).



Panny 14-42mm kit lens at 42mm




Last, but not least, my favorite lens of all time, a TAIR 300mm F4.5 Photosniper Russian lens. (Equivalent to a 600mm lens on this small sensor camera).





10-21-2016, 07:33 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Colorado CJ Quote
TAIR 300mm F4.5 Photosniper Russian lens. (Equivalent to a 600mm lens on this small sensor camera).
Yes, a 300mm f4.5 on m4/3 is equivalent to a 600mm f9 lens on FF, or 450 f6.8 on APS-C. Just crop a K-3 image to 16mp and you will have the same photo as an EM1 or EM10.
10-21-2016, 07:56 PM   #19
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I've played around with a friend's OMD-EM1, and it is a very nice camera. But there is no size or weight advantage compared to my K30--they are almost exactly the same size, and about the same weight. The only real advantages I see are 1) no mirror slap to mess up long-exposure photos; 2) real-time image feedback in the EVF; and 3) a stronger crop factor for wildlife photos. These advantages come at the expense of 4) more DOF for a given focal length (in situations where you want to limit DOF); shorter battery life, and 5) the IQ disadvantages of a smaller sensor.

10-22-2016, 02:27 AM   #20
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Done with my Olympus E-M10. Just thought I would see how far I could push that little sensor...

0.8mp crop

Last edited by wildman; 10-25-2016 at 01:48 PM.
10-22-2016, 05:08 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Colorado CJ Quote
Well, I just bought an Olympus OM-D EM-10 from KEH for $275 in LN+ condition. I just received it yesterday, along with a panny 14-42mm II lens and a lens a bought on Ebay, a Rokinon 7.5mm Fisheye.

Today I did a little shooting in the back yard and at my shop using these lenses and camera, along with some legacy M42 lenses.

So far, I think this little camera is a real keeper! I've been hiking for the past couple of years with a D600 and 4 lenses as well as a large format 4x5 film camera. I wanted to get a light weight kit for some of my more extreme hikes.

Here's a couple of samples I shot today, none are great, but I am happy with what I am getting out of the camera.

Rokinon 7.5mm F3.5 fisheye at close focus (around 4" from the lens).



Panny 14-42mm kit lens at 42mm




Last, but not least, my favorite lens of all time, a TAIR 300mm F4.5 Photosniper Russian lens. (Equivalent to a 600mm lens on this small sensor camera).





Fine pics! Yes, it is results that count. Charts and on-paper comparisons tell one little and give no flavour of the actual experience. I've found these cams great fun to use and I like the images. That's enough for me.

Last edited by mecrox; 10-22-2016 at 09:33 AM.
10-22-2016, 06:18 AM   #22
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There's no doubt. you can get great images with smaller sensors.... and the increased DoF gives you clear advantage in keeping small birds that are totally in focus. The issue has never been, not getting good images. The issue has always been the conditions you need to get them. IN the above shooting at 200 ISO would represent something I rarely get to use... 400 ISO to 3200 ISO is more common... that being said, I've seen similar shots taken with small sensor cameras, and am still considering a Panasonic FZ1000. I would have bought it already except, handling it in the store it felt so cheap. It was so little weight for the size of the camera I was forced to question how durable it would be.

On a larger format camera, it's much more difficult getting that kind of eye and feather detail, in the same image. Often if the eye is in focus, the shoulder feathers aren't.

10-22-2016, 06:39 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
On a larger format camera, it's much more difficult getting that kind of eye and feather detail, in the same image. Often if the eye is in focus, the shoulder feathers aren't.
No it isn't, just stop down the aperture.
10-22-2016, 08:11 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
No it isn't, just stop down the aperture.
That is usually not possible for me. I'm shooting under the canopy. I'm already pushing the limits of shutter speed for motion blur, which on small birds is visible right until 1/1000s, I am almost always shooting at the highest clean ISO and the highest possible shutter speed. I try to keep an absolute minimum shutter speed of 1/400s, at that speed subject motion blur will ruin more than half my images.

I'm always annoyed by people who say "just stop it down." Have you ever been there? What is with the "just". Every action has consequences.

So for me you'd be saying, "stop down, cut your minimum shutter speed to 1/200s and cut your subjects free from motion blur from 1 in 5 to one in 25." That's a heck of a "just".

Last edited by normhead; 10-22-2016 at 08:36 AM.
10-22-2016, 08:53 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
So for me you'd be saying, "stop down, cut your minimum shutter speed to 1/200s and cut your subjects free from motion blur from 1 in 5 to one in 25." That's a heck of a "just".
Agree. I think capturing BIF is a clear case for crop sensors over full-frame. The only question how small to go? The future for this kind of requirement may very well be satisfied with M43 and 1" sensors (imagine just how much better they may be 5 years from now), which presents quite the dilemma for camera manufacturers: how to lessen the blow of people moving to smaller and smaller camera systems? Currently, it would appear that the Nikon D500 is king of the hill, with a price to match...

M
10-22-2016, 09:06 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I've seen similar shots taken with small sensor cameras, and am still considering a Panasonic FZ1000. I would have bought it already except, handling it in the store it felt so cheap.
When I first read this, Norm, I thought you were crazy (well, I know you're crazy - but I thought you were crazier still )... but I just looked at some RAW samples from the FZ1000, and I'm surprised at how good it is, especially considering the size of the sensor. The lens seems capable too. It's amazing how far things have progressed with sensor technology. Shame about the build quality, but Panasonic seems to have a bit of a reputation for that...
10-22-2016, 11:15 AM - 1 Like   #27
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Full frame - no crop.
Fairly typical of the results I have been getting off the m4/3 sensor...

Last edited by wildman; 10-25-2016 at 01:48 PM.
10-22-2016, 12:50 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
At my age I avoid new camera systems like the plague. It irritates me that Pentax moved the playback button going from the K-3 to the K-1, and that I have to push the arrow button 6 times to format the SD card instead of 5. I'm not opposed to change, I'm opposed to pointless change.
I remember a professional photographer (as in he makes his living from photography, started off photographing individuals of ill-repute and wotnot) that once you get past the gear phase you enter the "is it in focus" phase shortly followed by the "do I have enough light" phase.

I utterly agree, Norm. Stick with your mount of choice and find the light . . . because YEE GAWDS! the costs of this really mount up.
10-22-2016, 02:33 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That is usually not possible for me. I'm shooting under the canopy. I'm already pushing the limits of shutter speed for motion blur, which on small birds is visible right until 1/1000s, I am almost always shooting at the highest clean ISO and the highest possible shutter speed. I try to keep an absolute minimum shutter speed of 1/400s, at that speed subject motion blur will ruin more than half my images.

I'm always annoyed by people who say "just stop it down." Have you ever been there? What is with the "just". Every action has consequences..
I am often there, that's why I don't want a smaller sensor camera. You're talking about getting an FZ1000, which I believe has a 1" sensor. DOF on a 1" sensor is exactly the same as an APS-C sensor that is stopped down by 1.8 stops. Keep the same shutter speed, increase ISO by 1.8 stops vs. the setting used on the LZ1000. Noise, DOF and diffraction will all be equal.
10-22-2016, 06:12 PM   #30
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SquirrelMafia - to continue on the subject I was talking about earlier, which is that you haven't given the APSC world a fair chance, if you have a bit of spending money, as you said, get yourself a nicer APSC setup:
DA 15 Limited - 350
DFA 100 Macro - 400
DAstar 16-50 2.8 screwdrive - 350
Sigma 30 1.4 - 300
DAstar 55 1.4 - 400

So for about the cost of that EM1+zoom+25mm prime you could get a really nice lens lineup in the used market. Best of all, if you don't like it, you can resell for about the same price
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