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10-25-2016, 02:54 PM   #61
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This Olympus deal is the $US equivalent of 1100 on Amazon Canadas website, take a drive if yr close or pay the freight if its less.

10-27-2016, 11:10 AM   #62
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Well, my younger brother let my dad borrow his E-M5II for a few days & my dad liked it immediately. He looked at the E-M1 & PRO lens deal on B&H & ordered it. So now there are 2 Olympus shooters in the family.

I got my hands on my dad's newly acquired Olympus OMD E-M1 & Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO lens. All I can say is that it's pretty awesome. I'm testing it side by side with my K-50 & so far, this little m43 camera can definitely hang with the K-50 all the way up to ISO 12800. The IQ starts falling apart rapidly past ISO 12800 compared to the K-50, but I never really shoot past ISO 6400 most of the time anyway, so it's kind of irrelevant. It's definitely a bit faster & more accurate at autofocusing. It can actually track moving subjects a bit faster & more accurate in low light than what my K-50 can. I'll usually have to resort to flipping the focus switch to M on my K-50 a good chunk of the time when shooting moving subjects in low light. I'm going to guess that the K-3/3II AF performs a little better than the E-M1 in low light. The 5-axis IBIS lets me shoot at lower ISO a lot easier than the SR in my K-50. I can take a 1 second handheld shot that still looks pretty decent, compared to the K-50 at 1 second.

My only gripes are the funky menu system in the camera & the cheap ass lens cap that seems to pop off too easily. Someone at Olympus should be flogged for that. This PRO lens is amazing, but the cap feels so cheap that it's almost ridiculous. My Pentax caps feel like their hand crafted to the highest degree, compared to the Olympus cap. It's ridiculous. Hahaha! The lens hood feels decent, but given the all-metal construction, it should have been metal too.

The overall build of the camera & lens is amazing. It's far better than my K-50 & lenses that I own. I'm also going to guess that the K-3/K-3II has similar or better build than the E-M1. I don't have any Pentax limited lenses, but my guess is that they'll be similar to the Olympus PRO lenses as far as build quality goes.

But yeah. I'm comparing an "apple" to an "orange" here. I guess if I had a K-3/K-3II with some better glass, it would be a different story.

I'm really anxious to find out what Pentax is doing with their upcoming APS-C flagship, but it looks like we're not going to see anything in that respect before April 2017 at the earliest, but I'm thinking more like the end of 2017 & maybe not even until 2018 now. That B&H deal for $1299 is pretty great. It's like you pay $999 for the lens & they throw in the E-M1 for only $300. That or you buy the body for $1099 & they throw the lens in for $200. It's so tempting. However, I don't know if I would still jump on that deal, since my dad has that lens & I could borrow it at any time. The E-M5II & E-M1 bodies alone are a bit pricey too. On the other hand, the K-3II could get an even bigger price cut next year. Hmmmm....

I'm gonna wait it out a bit. There are going to be a lot of discounts & incentives this coming holiday season. Maybe I can get some more Pentax glass or even a K-3II. That or an insanely good deal on an older Olympus body & borrow my family's glass. I'll see what's up. Thanks for the feedback!
10-27-2016, 11:43 AM   #63
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From my perspective you seem to have a good idea of what you want. I would argue that while the family has headed down the Olympus bandwagon if you live close to them and you can exchange gear or borrow items that may be enough to push you that direction. I personally like Panasonic better, so I would suggest you look at the GX8, GX85, GH4 or GH5 cameras and the 12-35 f/2.8 as an alternative. My experience is that the Panasonic menus make sense - there are less WTF moments looking at the way they are organized - at least that's my perspective coming from Pentax bias.

On the plus side should you jump on the Panasonic bandwagon rather than Olympus all the same lenses work. The newer Panasonic bodies also implement IBIS so your family's Olympus lenses will still be stabilized.

Personally while I would love to keep you with Pentax - the family is headed elsewhere and that may drag you along. Enjoy the ride either way!
10-27-2016, 12:18 PM   #64
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^ My dad still has all his Nikon gear. He basically bought the E-M1 as a traveling camera 'cause all his Nikon gear is way too heavy & large to take at times, especially if he just wants to take really good looking images without the hassle of carrying too much bulk. He understands that he'll be giving up a bit of IQ & AF performance at times with the Olympus compared to his Nikon D7200, but he's cool with it given the size & all. He's really impressed with it, though.

But yeah. As far as I can tell, if I were to unload my Pentax gear for m43 gear, I'd be fine. Heck. Just about any camera from any manufacturer is pretty damn good today. Even Canon APS-C. Hahaha! Just a few years ago, ISO 1600 was so unusable. Now you can safely shoot up to ISO 6400 with most APS-C cameras & even some smaller sensor cameras. That's pretty crazy. But like always, you give up something for something else. No camera system is perfect yet. I know I'd be giving up certain features if I left Pentax, but I'd get other features elsewhere. One just has to learn how to overcome the "limitations" in just about every camera system out there.

I'm not in a rush to unload my Pentax gear & jump into something else, but incentives like these make you think about other possible options. Even though I'm playing with the E-M1, I'm still reading a lot of reviews on the E-M1 & also reading about the upcoming E-M1 Mark II. I've also been reading about the Panasonics, especially the recent models. That's the cool thing with the m43 system. You can use so many lenses & bodies from different brands. All is good in the camera world.

I do wish that Pentax could give us some kind of update on the next generation APS-C flagship. That would be a game changer for me. One thing is for sure, I'm still not interested in a full frame camera yet. Everything is way pricier & larger with full frame. I'm very cool with APS-C or smaller.

10-27-2016, 04:24 PM   #65
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Try the Sigma 17-50mm. It will outperform anything available in m4/3, for $399.00.

The next Pentax flagship APS-C will be available within the next few months, that's pretty much guaranteed.
10-27-2016, 07:04 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Try the Sigma 17-50mm. It will outperform anything available in m4/3, for $399.00.

The next Pentax flagship APS-C will be available within the next few months, that's pretty much guaranteed.
Is this an opinion from experience with m43 including premium lens options?
10-27-2016, 07:12 PM   #67
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The problem with mounting non m43 lenses on the cameras is that they all are so long. I guess a 21mm is a wide normal lens on the format?

For someone who doesn't shoot telephoto much and uses wides and ultra wides a lot, that would be a major downer.

10-27-2016, 08:27 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Is this an opinion from experience with m43 including premium lens options?
It's a fact of life that a larger sensor and premium lens will perform at a higher level.

Oly 12-40mm f2.8 on OM-D Em1, sharpness = 9mp
Sigma 17-50mm f2.8 on K-3, sharpness = 13mp

https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Olympus-MZUIKO-DIGITAL-E...33_909_786_914

OM-D EM5 II, Overall score 73
Pentax K-3, Overall score 80

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Olympus-OM-D-E-M5-Mark-...K-3___1006_914

The Olympus combo is 24-80mm f5.6 FF equivalent.
The Pentax/Sigma combo is 26-75mm f4.2 FF equivalent

Cost of K-3 II and Sigma is $1300
Cost of EM5 II and 12-40 is $2100
10-27-2016, 09:14 PM   #69
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Going from Pentax menus to Oly is going from best to worst!

I'm with Uncle,Panasonic is Ok.The G80/85 is 5 axis stabilisied and weather sealed released soon i think.The body talks to the lens stabilisation,no Oly lens is stabilised.
10-27-2016, 09:59 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
It's a fact of life that a larger sensor and premium lens will perform at a higher level.

Oly 12-40mm f2.8 on OM-D Em1, sharpness = 9mp
Sigma 17-50mm f2.8 on K-3, sharpness = 13mp

https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Olympus-MZUIKO-DIGITAL-E...33_909_786_914

OM-D EM5 II, Overall score 73
Pentax K-3, Overall score 80

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Olympus-OM-D-E-M5-Mark-...K-3___1006_914

The Olympus combo is 24-80mm f5.6 FF equivalent.
The Pentax/Sigma combo is 26-75mm f4.2 FF equivalent

Cost of K-3 II and Sigma is $1300
Cost of EM5 II and 12-40 is $2100

So no. You have not tried it?
10-28-2016, 05:11 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
So no. You have not tried it?
No need. It's just science.
10-28-2016, 06:07 AM - 1 Like   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
No need. It's just science.
Advising people on the basis of absolutely zero experience with an item - so you say, anyway - while claiming that no experience is needed is a lot of things, but science isn't one of them - and advice isn't one of them either. I'm tired of this. Onto my block list you go.
10-28-2016, 06:13 AM   #73
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I sold my m43 kit that I used for few years and upgraded to k-1. Was an expensive move for sure lol, resale value on the em1 is not even half the price because you can get cheap refurbished bodies from Korea for peanuts (750$ new). Lenses sold rather fast though. It was fine for me, and features were amazing, as well as proper firmware upgrades that added cool features and fixed things. Size was great, when I first opened k-1 box I was a bit shocked lol, even more so when I attached a 70-200 2.8 lens to it) m43 lenses are pretty affordable, and there's certainly more choice right now than Pentax ff selection. It's a pretty good system, and I enjoyed my time with it. But k-1 is light years ahead in terms of IQ in my eyes (although em1 probably had a better af system actually). Those mirrorless bodies are also perfect for use with older glass with access to EVF (peaking, zooming and true exposure display) and speed boosters to bring the crop ratio to 1.5 rather than 2. Low light is fairly bad though, don't go over 1600 or you'll get a complete mess in shadows.

---------- Post added 10-28-16 at 06:15 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
No need. It's just science.
Not really how it works, you're comparing apples to oranges.
10-28-2016, 06:32 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
I sold my m43 kit that I used for few years and upgraded to k-1. Was an expensive move for sure lol, resale value on the em1 is not even half the price because you can get cheap refurbished bodies from Korea for peanuts (750$ new). Lenses sold rather fast though. It was fine for me, and features were amazing, as well as proper firmware upgrades that added cool features and fixed things. Size was great, when I first opened k-1 box I was a bit shocked lol, even more so when I attached a 70-200 2.8 lens to it) m43 lenses are pretty affordable, and there's certainly more choice right now than Pentax ff selection. It's a pretty good system, and I enjoyed my time with it. But k-1 is light years ahead in terms of IQ in my eyes (although em1 probably had a better af system actually). Those mirrorless bodies are also perfect for use with older glass with access to EVF (peaking, zooming and true exposure display) and speed boosters to bring the crop ratio to 1.5 rather than 2. Low light is fairly bad though, don't go over 1600 or you'll get a complete mess in shadows.
I have a k-3 and I have owned two m43 cameras. I concur with the general assessment - in good light the IQ is slightly better with the K-3 and the lenses I use on it than on the m43 bodies I have used. My K mount lenses are far more premium than my m43 due to my focus on m43 as a pick up and take along anywhere camera. I haven't done a good side by side of the 35-100 f2.8 lens my Dad owns with my da* 50-135 yet so I can't quantify how premium lenses compare. I have made 13x19 prints using nothing more complex than a kit lens and the results were quite good so is differences seem to be more at the pixel peeping level than at the real image use level for good light. Low light is more of a struggle which is to be expected.
10-28-2016, 06:49 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I have a k-3 and I have owned two m43 cameras. I concur with the general assessment - in good light the IQ is slightly better with the K-3 and the lenses I use on it than on the m43 bodies I have used. My K mount lenses are far more premium than my m43 due to my focus on m43 as a pick up and take along anywhere camera. I haven't done a good side by side of the 35-100 f2.8 lens my Dad owns with my da* 50-135 yet so I can't quantify how premium lenses compare. I have made 13x19 prints using nothing more complex than a kit lens and the results were quite good so is differences seem to be more at the pixel peeping level than at the real image use level for good light. Low light is more of a struggle which is to be expected.
M43 has a very nice selection of premium, modern glass as well. Their pro zooms are very good, as well as the voigtlanders 0,95, new 1.2 pro line, the panaleica premium line etc. Not cheap for sure, but very good glass. Honestly speaking IQ wise you'll only see differences with apsc if you pixel peep. Olympus colors are very nice too, they have a pretty nice look to them. For street photography those m43 bodies are perfect! Silent, small and quick. Electronic shutter of up to 1/16000 is also pretty cool (was added by firmware to em1), shooting wide open in day light etc. They've added livecomp setting which allows for super easy star trails, in body macro focus stacking with their 60mm 2.8 macro lens (BTW look for photos taken with that lens, it's stunning really), stuff like that. I wish dslr systems could implement serious firmware updates too. Overall I think if low light IQ and larger dof (unless you're willing to spend money on premium glass) is not critical, m43 is a great system.
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