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02-14-2017, 07:42 AM   #31
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
What I find weird is that the keymission thingies had such terrible video quality. I don't get it, why bother competing with current players in the action cam niche, and come out with a worse project for more money? That seemed like a huge misstep by nikon, look at Amazon customer reviews, the 360 one has 2 stars! The gopro competitor has 3 stars, same as the odd clip on thing. Just strange.
I think it is a case of them forcing a subpar product onto the market before it was ready. Once they realized it was a flop, they were hesitant of doing the same thing with the DL line (which would have happened since the engineering team were reportedly unhappy with them).

So they kicked the can down the road for a solid year before realizing it wasn't going to happen. Then had the painful (to their pride) task of admitting it was not going to happen to the world. But the first step in correcting your problems is to admit your problems. So kudos to Nikon for taking that step. No shame in that.. and it looks like they are in the first steps of correcting their course.

Earthquake alone makes for a great cover story though. What an alibi.


I think Nikon will remain Nikon, but they'll be a smaller Nikon.

---------- Post added 02-14-17 at 08:48 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
SLR direct
PowerSellerDigital.com

No idea if they're legit or not, but they don't mention them as either a refurb or international version as far as I could find.
SLR DIRECT reviews and reputation check
powersellerdigital Rated 0/5 stars by 1 Consumers - powersellerdigital.com Consumer Reviews at ResellerRatings

You knew they were not legit just by their prices. It looked too good to be true, because it was too good to be true.

02-14-2017, 07:57 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I think it is a case of them forcing a subpar product onto the market before it was ready. Once they realized it was a flop, they were hesitant of doing the same thing with the DL line (which would have happened since the engineering team were reportedly unhappy with them).

So they kicked the can down the road for a solid year before realizing it wasn't going to happen. Then had the painful (to their pride) task of admitting it was not going to happen to the world. But the first step in correcting your problems is to admit your problems. So kudos to Nikon for taking that step. No shame in that.. and it looks like they are in the first steps of correcting their course.

Earthquake alone makes for a great cover story though. What an alibi.


I think Nikon will remain Nikon, but they'll be a smaller Nikon.

---------- Post added 02-14-17 at 08:48 AM ----------



SLR DIRECT reviews and reputation check
powersellerdigital Rated 0/5 stars by 1 Consumers - powersellerdigital.com Consumer Reviews at ResellerRatings

You knew they were not legit just by their prices. It looked too good to be true, because it was too good to be true.
Well that leaves Walmart as the lowest I found at just under $1800 new. Thanks for checking the reps on those other links. If I had any interest in buying one I would have done the same.... but I don't I'm happy with Pentax
02-14-2017, 08:03 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Well that leaves Walmart as the lowest I found at just under $1800 new. Thanks for checking the reps on those other links. If I had any interest in buying one I would have done the same.... but I don't I'm happy with Pentax
I wouldn't be worried with a refurb from B&H since Nikon will accept them (USA item) for repair and they come with a 90 day warranty.

That is the concern about buying used (strictly used not refurbs) from Nikon. If the item was originally a grey market item, and it breaks, Nikon can refuse to help you.
02-14-2017, 08:38 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote

Canon makes excellent lenses (*) - bodies not so much
If we leave the categorization of "good" and "bad" to the factual market, Canon is making the very best bodies (not my opinion but that of "the photographers").

QuoteQuote:
The interchangeable-lens camera market for the full year was only down 9% to 11.5 million units, despite the temporary shortage of parts caused by the Kumamoto earthquake. This represents the first time in three years that the market contacted at a single digit rate.
As for our full-year unit sales, in addition to growing sales of new DSLRs and mirrorless cameras, we benefited from the shortage of parts that impacted our competitors. As a result, our unit sales increased 2% to 5.67 million units. Within this, last year, we strengthened our mirrorless lineup introducing a new high-end model. This, coupled with our tailored marketing activity allowed us to increase our market share in all regions.
Mirrorless cameras are already supporting our existing interchangeable-lens cameras and we feel we can increase our share in each region
http://www.canon.com/ir/conference/pdf/conf2016e-sum.pdf

They make the best* bodies. They make the best* lenses. The have the best* autofocus.
*=market perception.

Nikon simply is not offering anything where they are "best". Not even in a tiny niche. Whatever reason you try to find to buy Nikon, you always find some maker who is clearly better at it.

There is a good reason why practically noone ever switches brands to Nikon these last years.

As I said above: The really interesting thing will be the pricing of the new products they hopefully show at CP+.

Bodies at $3000+ and lenses at $2000+ won't make a splash outside basement imatest chart testers, regardless of features, when "very good enough" can be had for $800 new.

It's tough out there.

02-14-2017, 08:50 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
If we leave the categorization of "good" and "bad" to the factual market, Canon is making the very best bodies (not my opinion but that of "the photographers").

http://www.canon.com/ir/conference/pdf/conf2016e-sum.pdf

They make the best* bodies. They make the best* lenses. The have the best* autofocus.
*=market perception.

Nikon simply is not offering anything where they are "best". Not even in a tiny niche. Whatever reason you try to find to buy Nikon, you always find some maker who is clearly better at it.

There is a good reason why practically noone ever switches brands to Nikon these last years.

As I said above: The really interesting thing will be the pricing of the new products they hopefully show at CP+.

Bodies at $3000+ and lenses at $2000+ won't make a splash outside basement imatest chart testers, regardless of features, when "very good enough" can be had for $800 new.

It's tough out there.
The DX0 ratings have so stank up the place that most of their fans I know of blame DX0.


At the lower end, I had two Rebels die on me in less than eight years - that time might not impress you, but the total shutter count of 4352 should; when someone complains about K-30/50 longevity here, I routinely note that they got more out of it than I got from my Rebel.

That's all I have to say on the subject.
02-14-2017, 09:03 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Well that leaves Walmart as the lowest I found at just under $1800 new. Thanks for checking the reps on those other links. If I had any interest in buying one I would have done the same.... but I don't I'm happy with Pentax
That's not Walmart, that is a third party seller via Walmart's web site. And that third party seller is scam-ish and not an authorized reseller.

People really ought to stop posting this type of stuff.
02-14-2017, 09:37 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
That's not Walmart, that is a third party seller via Walmart's web site. And that third party seller is scam-ish and not an authorized reseller.

People really ought to stop posting this type of stuff.
Thanks.
Shame when even Walmart can't be trusted to offer honest results. Amazon has been slipping lately too with far too many low-balled products where the seller says "contact me before ordering". Using a high-profile web seller like either Walmart or Amazon should be a trustworthy experience.

02-14-2017, 10:42 AM   #38
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I bought a new Canadian D500 for ~ US $1,600 as soon as they went on sale here since Janaury. It is very fast & acurrate, although he connectivity and pixel count are so-so at that price range.

QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
Refurbed D500 for $1600US these days (very tempting actually).
Going to be tough for Pentax to launch something similar at a higher price point than that.

M
02-14-2017, 11:11 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJL Quote
I bought a new Canadian D500 for ~ US $1,600 as soon as they went on sale here since Janaury. It is very fast & acurrate, although he connectivity and pixel count are so-so at that price range.
Pretty sad for a company to have to sell their "flagship" at this price level. Here the D500 also had to be adjusted downward bei >20% within the first year, just to stay barely competitive. If that happens really not only on a single market: a success looks different.

The Canon 7D Mark II only dropped by about half that rate during the initial year.

The Pentax K-3II dropped by only 5% after the initial year.

The Pentax K-1 price is actually 5% higher after a year here.

No better way to see what the market sees as a fair/good value than market price. And usually the price levels dictate when a company needs to publish the successor, even if only a minor update.

Canon M1 and Nikon 1 and Pentax K-01 are also good testimony to this, not to mention the Nikon D600 in DSLR world...
02-14-2017, 11:52 AM   #40
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Nikon's high profile QC problems are coming home to roost.
They will be fine since they still build awesome gear...but they really need to get back to basics (much better quality control, much fewer products).
02-14-2017, 01:00 PM   #41
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Nikon just releases too many cameras and has too many camera lines. Currently, you can still buy new on Amazon D5200, D5300, and D5500 cameras. That is going to drive down the price of the D5500. And I don't even know how much of a difference the specs are between them. They all still have a 24 megapixel sensor. Probably slight improvements in frame rate and video and wi fi is my guess. Certainly not enough for someone shooting with a D5200 to buy a D5500 unless their camera actually breaks.

Nikon has how many full frame lines? D5, D610, D810, and D750. and I guess the Df is still around, although it isn't current.

A little consolidation, just waiting to release a new camera till there is some real new feature to release, and decreasing volume of cameras released will tend to stabilize their prices and they'll actually generate more profit off of the gear they sell.

It is good quality gear, for the most part, they just haven't adjusted to the current camera market.
02-15-2017, 11:57 AM   #42
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It's weird eh? They sell a shit load of cameras, at prices pound for pound twice the price as Pentax. How they mess it up? And how is Pentax not in worse straits than Nikon with their tiny margins and relatively tiny user base?
02-15-2017, 12:45 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by plooksta Quote
It's weird eh? They sell a shit load of cameras, at prices pound for pound twice the price as Pentax. How they mess it up? And how is Pentax not in worse straits than Nikon with their tiny margins and relatively tiny user base?
Because Pentax is a tiny company (thanks to Hoya) with next to no inventory compared to Nikon...
02-15-2017, 01:07 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by plooksta Quote
It's weird eh? They sell a shit load of cameras, at prices pound for pound twice the price as Pentax. How they mess it up? And how is Pentax not in worse straits than Nikon with their tiny margins and relatively tiny user base?
Company performance is not a matter of size, it is a matter of efficiency and effectively of the resources.
02-15-2017, 01:42 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by plooksta Quote
It's weird eh? They sell a shit load of cameras, at prices pound for pound twice the price as Pentax. How they mess it up? And how is Pentax not in worse straits than Nikon with their tiny margins and relatively tiny user base?
Come back in 6 months to see how the camera market developed and how sales are for Ricoh-Imaging. 2017 is going to be brutal for all but Canon.
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