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02-14-2017, 09:34 PM   #1
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entry level canon has a better af system than the pentax flagship now...

It seems that canon out an 80d af system into their t7i. I wonder how will ricoh respond.

02-14-2017, 10:00 PM - 1 Like   #2
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Define "better".
02-14-2017, 10:02 PM - 2 Likes   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by rrstuff Quote
...entry level canon has a better af system than the pentax flagship
In political circles this is referred to as putting lipstick on a pig.

When Canon puts the same AF system as the 1DX in the 90D.... or whatever they are going to call it, then I will be impressed...and more than a little bemused.
02-14-2017, 10:06 PM - 1 Like   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by rrstuff Quote
It seems that canon out an 80d af system into their t7i. I wonder how will ricoh respond.
Ricoh will respond by playing dead.

Pentax is DOOOOMMMED


Steve

02-14-2017, 10:06 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
In political circles this is referred to as putting lipstick on a pig.
What he said ^ ^ ^


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02-14-2017, 10:51 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by rrstuff Quote
It seems that canon out an 80d af system into their t7i. I wonder how will ricoh respond.
Is it sensitive down to -3EV or just better at continuous AF?
02-14-2017, 11:44 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by rrstuff Quote
It seems that canon out an 80d af system into their t7i. I wonder how will ricoh respond.
Normally, company do what their customers appreciate. Copying what competitors are doing is not necessarily the right strategy.
We should ask ourselves why we ask this kind of question "Canon has done this, how will Ricoh respond?".
It this like when we were 5 years old playing in the sandbox with other little boys of our age and telling our mum "they've got a red tractor, I've got a blue one, the red tractor is stronger, mummy I want the red tractor, mummy i want the red tractor, please, mummy I want the red tractor, mummy please buy me a red red tractor". Truth is often like this, envy. You've got a Pentax cam, you get a Canon , and less than a week after fulfilling your fantasy, life is back to normal shooting again, i.e center point AFS... and for the rest of the time you'll end up shooting with a disposable Canon camera LoL

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-14-2017 at 11:55 PM.
02-14-2017, 11:51 PM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithedreamer Quote
Is it sensitive down to -3EV or just better at continuous AF?

Only the center point, as Imaging Resources says.

What is interesting about af is not necesarily the 45 autofocus points across much of the image frame, with all of them being cross-types that are sensitive to detail on both the horizontal and vertical axes. What is interesting is that 27 points from 45 work to f/8 (although only nine of them on both axes), and the central point is a dual cross-type supporting either f/2.8 or f/5.6.

02-14-2017, 11:56 PM - 1 Like   #9
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Seems a good move from Canon. It has an ongoing war with Sony and Panasonic with video, video AF etc, and with Nikon re regular PDAF.

I like these 'AF wars'. We all win as better tech gets cheaper. No doubt Pentax is fully aware of what Canon (and everyone else) is doing with AF, and will respond adequately in time.
02-15-2017, 12:01 AM - 2 Likes   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Only the center point, as Imaging Resources says. What is interesting about af is not necesarily the 45 autofocus points across much of the image frame, with all of them being cross-types that are sensitive to detail on both the horizontal and vertical axes. What is interesting is that 27 points from 45 work to f/8 (although only nine of them on both axes), and the central point is a dual cross-type supporting either f/2.8 or f/5.6.
For all PDAF cameras I'm aware of , the center points are the most sensitive and the most accurate. That's why even Canon users use the center point when they want focus to be spot on. A lot of Canon users don't use the extra points 99.9% of the time, it's no different from Pentax users. Some years ago, a friend of mine, landscape photog, who had a Pentax told me "I'm going to buy a Nikon", so , I asked him why? He said "Nikon have more AF point, they have 51 AF points, Pentax only has 11". I asked him "How many of the 11 points do you use?", he said "Ah, I use the center point", them I said "if you don't use 11 points, what for would you need 51 points?". He still using his Pentax cam and he is happy.

The funny thing is, 80% of Pentax users pointing out better AF of Canikon , don't actually shoot things that require fast AF. It's just envy, my neighbor has that, so I want the same...
02-15-2017, 12:09 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
For all PDAF cameras I'm aware of , the center points are the most sensitive and the most accurate. That's why even Canon users use the center point when they want focus to be spot on. A lot of Canon users don't use the extra points 99.9% of the time, it's no different from Pentax users. Some years ago, a friend of mine, landscape photog, who had a Pentax told me "I'm going to buy a Nikon", so , I asked him why? He said "Nikon have more AF point, they have 51 AF points, Pentax only has 11". I asked him "How many of the 11 points do you use?", he said "Ah, I use the center point", them I said "if you don't use 11 points, what for would you need 51 points?". He still using his Pentax cam and he is happy.
If you do weddings you don't have time to constantly move the focus point. It's much faster to focus with the center point af and recompose. And as I said, for me it's interesting to see in an entry level camera support for long (tele) lenses with teleconvertors. 27 af points working at f8 with teleconvertors attached on tele lenses are far better than having one or none, don't you think? Who said you can't be happy with Pentax?
02-15-2017, 12:21 AM   #12
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Ricoh probably won't even notice

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02-15-2017, 01:25 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by rrstuff Quote
It seems that canon out an 80d af system into their t7i. I wonder how will ricoh respond.
The nature of most Pentax cameras is the excel at image quality in landscape and other stills type of photography, which 90% of such does not require some AF that is so many miliseconds faster than a competitor. Pentax is designed to be a camera for people who are more purists in certain segments into the traditional art of photography.

Now tell me again why comparing AF even matters?

If I am taking pictures of a fashion model, a mountain, an old barn, a car, a bridge, a cityscape, or any number of things that don't move around at warp speed explain to me why Ricoh would even care a single whit about 'responding' or trying to be like the other guys?

Ricoh isn't trying to replicate Canon or Nikon or anyone else for that matter. I for one have never made a video and I rarely if ever shoot fast moving subjects, and when I do shoot fast moving subjects I turn off AF entirely because it just works better.

So for someone like me, why should I give two seconds of thought about some comparative singular function?

When you take into account the entire system of what Ricoh offers it meets a whole lot of needs of a whole lot of people.

That said not all screwdrivers fit every single type of screw. Pick whatever the tool is you need to accomplish your specific mission.

But to ask a company to retool and redesign and repurpose their entire philosophy behind their designs so they can follow some other company is kind of ridiculous.

Honestly I doubt that Ricoh even cares that much to add another pretty much useless feature that will make zero difference to 90% of the photographers out there. All it will do is pull them from their mission and philosophy and drive up costs with the only benefit being that 'on paper' they will have another selling point that rarely if ever will help the end user.

Yes cameras improve over time, but dwelling on AF misses the whole boat of the Pentax concept.

Last edited by alamo5000; 02-15-2017 at 01:31 AM.
02-15-2017, 02:07 AM - 1 Like   #14
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I would even venture to say that Pentax puts MORE thought into their camera systems than most other companies. Several companies cobble together a bunch of statistical crap with little thought of the entire system. And all they do is make unfriendly cameras that cost more money.

Pentax has it's way of doing things and they don't need to start marching to the beat of anybody else.

They keep their lens mount as K mount. Why? So people can use vintage manual glass. Can you say that about Canon or Nikon? Is that a major selling point for Pentax? Darn right it is.

The other companies have different philosophies about certain technologies and the need of certain breeds of AF are generally on the top of that list. As pointed out earlier why do you need 51 AF points if you're trying to be the next Ansel Adams?

Again, I like the way Pentax does stuff, otherwise I would be using something else. Pentax is an extremely thoughtful company. Others on the other hand get into spec wars and it doesn't have any soul to it.
02-15-2017, 02:44 AM - 3 Likes   #15
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Underwhelming to see that the 8 year old Pentax K10D is still leagues ahead versus Canon's flagship camera with regards to in body shake reduction...


A cherry picked, spec based noob comparison is the ancestor of modern "alternative facts" and "fake news".

Canon is actually way ahead in the game of "fake news".
"Combination IS with five-axis Image Stabilization*" (Press Release Details) is used to describe the actual fact that the camera has not the least bloody minimal image stabilisation, but is fully dependend on accessories to provide this - other than smartphone-type software shake correction.

The fair reaction would be to say the K5 has an autofocus that is "98 autofocus points ready" (which is actually a fact, because there are virtually no limits to the number of non-cross type AF points you can define in software using the exact same module; it just doesnt change/improve anything beyond spec sheet).
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