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03-03-2017, 06:06 AM   #1
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This is what I have been saying long time ago

and Pentax should jump on the train at this..
quoted Thom:
"e cancellation of the DL models certainly didn't help, but that was just a symptom of the bigger problem: below the D7200 Nikon really has been setting the world on ice (the opposite of fire, get it?). NikonUSA is currently promoting three different D3xxx and three different D5xxx models. The differences between them? Mostly the number of dollars you spend to obtain them. This is an indication that the product sales for these models not only stalled, but so too did the ability to iterate new models intelligently"

Been saying that looong time ago that the D5000 line doesnt make sense, the D3000 being as good or better..just slap the flip screen on the D3000 entry, and wipe out the D5k..you may as well consider closing the D7k line, since they are so close to the pro bodies price wise..
It worked for Canon..

03-03-2017, 07:29 AM - 1 Like   #2
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I think in general the big brands, Canon, Nikon, Sony, have too many cameras in the lineup. Pentax is just right
03-03-2017, 08:32 AM   #3
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03-03-2017, 08:53 AM   #4
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For APS-C the 3000's are cheap cameras for box stores. The 7000's are for advanced amateurs and semi pro's, and the 5000's are in the middle with some features of both. Finally the D500 is the full pro model. It makes sense, but not when you have multiple versions of each level confusing things.

03-03-2017, 06:23 PM   #5
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At one point my local, friendly, neighborhood walmart had several Nikons D3x00 series side by side by side.... from different generations.

I get the feeling the 5X00 series are essentially an upsell from the 3X00 series.

The D7X00 are viable as a flagship do-all crop body. Much like the K-7/K-5/K-3 have been for Pentax and the 80D for Canon. They make sense to keep that line continuing.

The D500 is a specialized sport crop body. Much like the 7D II for Canon. The D7X00 series can pro too.. no problems... they just don't have the same AF system or burst/buffer.. but they do have a bit more resolution.

I'm tempted to spend a couple hundred for a cheap nikon though just to play... The last Nikon crop I got cozy with was a D3100. I see they've upgraded long ago to a 24mp sensor even on their entry bodies. Nice touch. The fun thing is they pumped out so many before removing supply from previous generations out.. so they are a dime a dozen these days... and only getting cheaper as time goes by..

---------- Post added 03-03-17 at 07:38 PM ----------

As far as Nikon goes.. this is how I'd restructure the DSLR lineup.

For Dx: Get rid of D3X00 series. Done.

For Fx: Get rid of D6X0 series. Done.

Everything else stays. But lower the price of the D5X00 slightly as well as the D7X0. They become your entry bodies into Dx and Fx F mount.

Nikon's bigger problem is being too big as a company.. that has to cost a ton to support their internal organization. Sadly I see job cuts on the horizon at Nikon and closing of some regional offices. If they were lean like Ricoh Imaging is, they'd not have a problem.. and could also reduce the pricing on their products.. which would drive more interest.

I think a lot of the reason a D810 (for example) is around 3 grand is because at least 1 grand is paying for Nikon offices and services. It is an outdated model in today's market. I wonder how much of their business is essentially a scheme of sorts of charging a ton at the top tiers to pay for the loss on the bottom tiers in hopes the bottom tiers drive sales at the middle and top tiers?

RI/Pentax has a different issue.. of a relative lack of interest and a dated lens catalog which makes it difficult to spark interest. When people get nervous about their money, it seems most tend to hunker down to the things they know.. in cameraland that isn't to the Pentaxes of the market. Because, even though they're in a better place financially, these companies seem like a riskier venture to invest in (by buying their products). The big names seem safer... because they're big names. Too big to fail... like the Titanic. gulp.
03-03-2017, 06:56 PM   #6
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I can easily see some manufacturers dropping out of the market over the next few years but that doesn't mean to say loss of the respective mount.

Example, say Pentax went I could envisage one of the other players like Sony making a K-mount offering of their A-mount cameras. Same camera, just available in different mount.

Also AF adapters for mirrorless will continue to improve making it less risky to invest in brands with unpredictable futures.
03-03-2017, 07:27 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by HopelessTogger Quote
Example, say Pentax went......

Someone is bound to come along in this thread and announce that "Pentax Is Doomed".....and the bird needs to get out for some fresh air, so I am posting him in advance...just refer back to him when the Naysayer arrives!



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03-03-2017, 08:08 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Lopez Quote
and Pentax should jump on the train at this..
quoted Thom:
"e cancellation of the DL models certainly didn't help, but that was just a symptom of the bigger problem: below the D7200 Nikon really has been setting the world on ice (the opposite of fire, get it?). NikonUSA is currently promoting three different D3xxx and three different D5xxx models. The differences between them? Mostly the number of dollars you spend to obtain them. This is an indication that the product sales for these models not only stalled, but so too did the ability to iterate new models intelligently"

Been saying that looong time ago that the D5000 line doesnt make sense, the D3000 being as good or better..just slap the flip screen on the D3000 entry, and wipe out the D5k..you may as well consider closing the D7k line, since they are so close to the pro bodies price wise..
It worked for Canon..
After Apple dumped Steve Jobs, the guys they brought in were cigarette execs, and the firs thing they did was to start creating brands. There were Performas, 6100s I can't remember them all.and a few others, some of which had pretty much identical specs. A few years later with Apple being pretty much doomed, they bring Steve Jobs back and he reduces the computers back to four lines. iMac, iBook, MacBook Pro and Power Mac. The rest is history. Just hope the Nikon equivalent of Steve Jobs didn't die.

From a personal perspective, a friend a few years ago, bought a D3200. I was trying to show her some function, and despite having an manual you could read on the back screen, it didn't have that feature. Ask me, what is more important a manual on a screen small to read fluidly, or auto-bracketing or what it was, that to me is an issue. They make cameras that careless than the average photo enthusiast is likely to need.

They seriously need to be Steve Jobbed. I personally don't think any company can succeed for to long doing what Nikon is doing. You will have situations like I had, where I show her something on my camera, and then try to figure out how to do it on hers, and it doesn't do it. That person wonders why Canon, or Pentax or whatever I'm shooting has that feature and their camera doesn't. That kind of nonsense, is what costs cameras companies customers. So, I'm going to blame the demise of Nikon on too many models, to much confusion about what each does. And basic consumer models cripple their customers, if the customer learns anything at all about photography, they are going to have to buy something else. They gamble that that something else will be another Nikon. But what is happening is people are feeling cheated if they didn't buy a high end camera. If you buy a Pentax you have a good camera. I was as happy with my K100D as I am with my K-1. I was also happy with my K-x. I didn't feel I was using an inferior camera.

I can't imagine looking back at something like a D3200, saying "that camera was seriously lacking in important features", and being happy about that.

Last edited by normhead; 03-03-2017 at 08:18 PM.
03-03-2017, 09:28 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
At one point my local, friendly, neighborhood walmart had several Nikons D3x00 series side by side by side.... from different generations.

I get the feeling the 5X00 series are essentially an upsell from the 3X00 series.

The D7X00 are viable as a flagship do-all crop body. Much like the K-7/K-5/K-3 have been for Pentax and the 80D for Canon. They make sense to keep that line continuing.

The D500 is a specialized sport crop body. Much like the 7D II for Canon. The D7X00 series can pro too.. no problems... they just don't have the same AF system or burst/buffer.. but they do have a bit more resolution.

I'm tempted to spend a couple hundred for a cheap

---------- Post added 03-03-17 at 07:38 PM ----------

[/COLOR]As far as Nikon goes.. this is how I'd restructure the DSLR lineup.

For Dx: Get rid of D3X00 series. Done.

For Fx: Get rid of D6X0 series. Done.

Everything else stays. But lower the price of the D5X00 slightly as well as the D7X0. They become your entry bodies into Dx and Fx F mount.
You wouldnt get rid of the D3000 series becuase of consumer perception. The typical entry level buyer will buy the most cheapest option due to being afraid testing DSLR waters..but that D5000 flip screen is sure nice to have! so they will be like should I spend 200 more for the flip, or should I get a flip Rebel for the same I would spend on a D3400?
Nikon should just rename the D5000 to D3000 and make it a day..
Heres an example..go to a pawn shop anyday and you find what? D3x00s! why? too complicated to handle, they went mirrorless..
Also, that D72xx niche is pretty small, mostly becuase those entry level buyers who mastered the craft are also searching value..by the time they learn, they will rather pony up some more cash and go pro than buying into a middle level item, knowing that they will outgrow it..
Anyway, Nikon knows that pursuing the Leica elite business model is not going to cut it, I think Nikon survives on selling bulk, not quality

---------- Post added 03-03-17 at 09:55 PM ----------

Norhead
"I can't imagine looking back at something like a D3200, saying "that camera was seriously lacking in important features", and being happy about that."

Thats exactly the whole point! why buy the next tier if it still has the same lack of important features? Nikon just lost a customer there..brand loyalty is not a feasible garantee anymore, at least for the entry level consumers..they have options like Sony and Canon.

I was Nikon, went Pentax becuase of cheaper great lenses, I did my research and that got me sold..buy crap Nikkor Cosina made AF-S lenses at Pentax Limited prices? no way..my roadmap was from a K30 to a K5iis and ,as a matter a fact, I never felt cheated. Next would be a FF, theres hardly anything on a K70 or a KP that would pursuade me to buy one of those.
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