Have I lost my marbles? Leica...

skierd · 04-05-2017, 11:45 AM

A recent trip to Mexico with my family reminded me of a few things... mainly how much I love rangefinders and how much I really enjoy shooting film. Ektar 100 and XP2 are what I took, but I've always had a sweet spot for Tri-X and TMax too. Being a rangefinder fan (I have three, an Olympus XA, Olympus 35RD, and cut my teeth on a Yashica 35 GSN), there's an obvious elephant in the room: Leica. Couple that with finding a great lab to work with (the FIND Lab), and getting some fairly large prints from my 35mm shots on the trip, I'm feeling like Alice falling down the rabbit hole. Additionally I'm fortunate/cursed to live in a town with a great repair/second hand camera shop. He always has a couple older M's and screw mount Leica's, contax's, Canon's, and more in the cases or in back if you know to ask.

The totem in the case on this trip? A pretty well-loved Leica M2 that is mechanically sound but will never be a collector's piece, with a Canon 35mm f1.5. It's a lot of damn money... but it's a well regarded lens and a body that I wouldn't be devastated to use in the field and drop accidently. The price being asked is about what the lens alone is going for on eBay. I think if I add a 90mm initially and eventually a 50 I'd be very very happy with this setup based on how I shoot. It won't replace digital for me, as I'll keep a Pentax around for film scanning and telephoto work. And I can't really lose money on it unless it gets stolen or the market for Leica crashes permanently. But it does represent a different direction than I've been going with my photography.

Thoughts, comments, insults, encouragement? Do I sip from the brassed German cup?

Swift1 · 04-05-2017, 11:55 AM

Y.O.L.O...

I say go for it, assuming the camera and lens are working properly.
If my hands worked, I would probably own an M2 or M4 by now... although the Bessa R cameras have features that are important to me ... so I might choose a R2A over a Leica...

~~If you do go for it... I highly recommend finding a CV 35/2.5...~~
Edit: When I first read your post, I the Canon 35/1.5, but my mind saw 50/1.5
Is there such a lens (Canon 35/1.5)?

pathdoc · 04-05-2017, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by skierd

Additionally I'm fortunate/cursed to live in a town with a great repair/second hand camera shop.

I would consider that a definite BLESSING, especially the repair aspect.

skierd · 04-05-2017, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Swift1

Edit: When I first read your post, I the Canon 35/1.5, but my mind saw 50/1.5
Is there such a lens (Canon 35/1.5)?

Yup. All reviews put it as better than the contemporary Summilux, but not quite equal to the current APSH or late model Leica 35mm 1.4's. But price is similar to a Summicron.

stevebrot · 04-05-2017, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by skierd

Thoughts, comments, insults, encouragement? Do I sip from the brassed German cup?

I paid about $220 USD for my Canon P in EX+ condition. Does that cool the blood a little? No, its not M mount, but there is still a good selection of fine LTM glass that will work quite nicely.

Steve

stevebrot · 04-05-2017, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Swift1

so I might choose a R2A over a Leica...

I understand that @chickentender has his R3M with VC Skopar 35/2.5 on the block to be sold.

Steve

redrockcoulee · 04-05-2017, 02:24 PM

I never was fond of rangefinders hence never wanted a Leica. At a former job I got to borrow a Hasselblad and quickly found it as the camera for me. It just felt right and even though I had a chance for a Bronica and tried Mamiya to me it was worth the extra money to go with the Hasselblad.

I got good deals on my gear and even if I can no longer use it in 20 years the extra cost for my preferred gear works out to one day a month. Ask yourself if you are worth an extra dollar a week or a month to go with the Leica.

**TwoUptons** · 04-05-2017, 03:01 PM

If that's the way you want to go, and you're willing (and able) to put the resources there, then go for it.

There are a number of rangefinder things I've wanted to do, and I've been pretty satisfied for the moment only going halfway, but your priorities are different ☺

I bought a Fed when I wanted an interchangeable lens rangefinder, and I love it. I then bought a Petri (don't judge) when I wanted a Rollei but was annoyed at the prices (and the Petri has the hot shoe on top...)

And that has worked out very well...

But my focus is SLRs, with rangefinders the pleasant distraction, so different priorities ☺

-Eric

Eyewanders · 04-05-2017, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I understand that @chickentender has his R3M with VC Scopar 35/2.5 on the block to be sold.

True story. Colton's seen it in a couple other channels. I haven't posted it up here - probably ought to.

Leica-schmeica, says I. I've handled and shot several but I doubt I'd ever own one. They are excellent cameras but drastically inflated IMO... as with everything, branding and reputation matter, and as you go "up" in anything you see a seriously diminishing amount of return on investment past a certain point.

Rave about the Bessa, as I've said elsewhere. If I gelled and shot with rangefinders, I'd most certainly keep it. But... no worries.
Honestly, the thing I'll miss most is the Color Skopar - I'm in deep with that lens and think it punches waaaaaay above its price-point in terms of rendering, speed, size etc etc... It has a similar magic to the FA31 on color. Not so contrasty as to look entirely "modern". Not so delicate as to look entirely "vintage". It's just right.

Eyewanders · 04-05-2017, 04:50 PM

(I posted my Bessa kit up in the sales forum here just now, if any are indeed interested.)

**TomB_tx** · 04-05-2017, 05:08 PM

I bought my Leica M4 in 1969, and have used both Leica and SLRs ever since, but I much prefer using Leica M rangefinders - probably over 80% of my pictures over the years, and more like 95% of low light work. I have an M2 also, and love it's simplicity. It's great with a 35 lens, and much faster to hit focus with one than with an SLR.
I haven't used the Canon 35 f1.5, but do use their f1.8 35 with a Canon RF, and it's a nice little lens.
My old eyes can still focus a Leica M well even in dim light, while my SLRs aren't so easy any more.
If you stumble on a Zeiss Ikon ZM (made in the early 2000s by Cosina), it uses the Leica M mount and has a viewfinder even better than Leica, plus optional aperture priority auto exposure. May not be as rugged as Leica, but a nice user.

skierd · 04-05-2017, 06:50 PM

Well if it matters, I'm looking at $1250 for the M2 and canon 35mm. Yes, it's an ugly M2, but it is working, and at current prices for the lens I'm looking at a $250 M that works...

stevebrot · 04-05-2017, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by chickentender

(I posted my Bessa kit up in the sales forum here just now, if any are indeed interested.)

Without a link, it is just a rumor

Edit: I forgot...not supposed to promote a listing from the forums.

Steve

Eyewanders · 04-05-2017, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Without a link, it is just a rumor

Edit: I forgot...not supposed to promote a listing from the forums.

Exactly. And it's a good rule; it would become irritating to have for sale pitches invading every thread. I only mentioned it here since you tagged and called out.

stevebrot · 04-05-2017, 07:53 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by TomB_tx

If you stumble on a Zeiss Ikon ZM (made in the early 2000s by Cosina), it uses the Leica M mount and has a viewfinder even better than Leica, plus optional aperture priority auto exposure. May not be as rugged as Leica, but a nice user.

Definitely a nice user. I almost bought one in 2012 when B&H was closing out their stock at the end of the camera's seven year run. I did not realize what a bargain* an Ikon ZM with Biogon 35/2 was at the time and allowed the opportunity to pass. I can't comment directly regarding build quality, having never handled one, but if is a step up from my Bessa, it ain't flimsy.

Steve

* I believe the combo was about $1500 at B&H.

04-05-2017, 11:45 AM	#1
skierd Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Fairbanks, AK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,472	Have I lost my marbles? Leica... A recent trip to Mexico with my family reminded me of a few things... mainly how much I love rangefinders and how much I really enjoy shooting film. Ektar 100 and XP2 are what I took, but I've always had a sweet spot for Tri-X and TMax too. Being a rangefinder fan (I have three, an Olympus XA, Olympus 35RD, and cut my teeth on a Yashica 35 GSN), there's an obvious elephant in the room: Leica. Couple that with finding a great lab to work with (the FIND Lab), and getting some fairly large prints from my 35mm shots on the trip, I'm feeling like Alice falling down the rabbit hole. Additionally I'm fortunate/cursed to live in a town with a great repair/second hand camera shop. He always has a couple older M's and screw mount Leica's, contax's, Canon's, and more in the cases or in back if you know to ask. The totem in the case on this trip? A pretty well-loved Leica M2 that is mechanically sound but will never be a collector's piece, with a Canon 35mm f1.5. It's a lot of damn money... but it's a well regarded lens and a body that I wouldn't be devastated to use in the field and drop accidently. The price being asked is about what the lens alone is going for on eBay. I think if I add a 90mm initially and eventually a 50 I'd be very very happy with this setup based on how I shoot. It won't replace digital for me, as I'll keep a Pentax around for film scanning and telephoto work. And I can't really lose money on it unless it gets stolen or the market for Leica crashes permanently. But it does represent a different direction than I've been going with my photography. Thoughts, comments, insults, encouragement? Do I sip from the brassed German cup?

04-05-2017, 11:55 AM	#2
Swift1 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,079	Y.O.L.O... I say go for it, assuming the camera and lens are working properly. If my hands worked, I would probably own an M2 or M4 by now... although the Bessa R cameras have features that are important to me ... so I might choose a R2A over a Leica... ~~If you do go for it... I highly recommend finding a CV 35/2.5...~~ Edit: When I first read your post, I the Canon 35/1.5, but my mind saw 50/1.5 Is there such a lens (Canon 35/1.5)? Last edited by Swift1; 04-05-2017 at 12:21 PM.

04-05-2017, 01:54 PM	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by skierd Thoughts, comments, insults, encouragement? Do I sip from the brassed German cup? I paid about $220 USD for my Canon P in EX+ condition. Does that cool the blood a little? No, its not M mount, but there is still a good selection of fine LTM glass that will work quite nicely. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 04-05-2017 at 02:03 PM.

04-05-2017, 02:02 PM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Swift1 so I might choose a R2A over a Leica... I understand that @chickentender has his R3M with VC Skopar 35/2.5 on the block to be sold. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 04-05-2017 at 10:42 PM.

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04-05-2017, 12:04 PM	#3
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by skierd Additionally I'm fortunate/cursed to live in a town with a great repair/second hand camera shop. I would consider that a definite BLESSING, especially the repair aspect.

04-05-2017, 12:59 PM	#4
skierd Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Fairbanks, AK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,472 Original Poster	Originally posted by Swift1 Edit: When I first read your post, I the Canon 35/1.5, but my mind saw 50/1.5 Is there such a lens (Canon 35/1.5)? Yup. All reviews put it as better than the contemporary Summilux, but not quite equal to the current APSH or late model Leica 35mm 1.4's. But price is similar to a Summicron.

04-05-2017, 02:24 PM	#7
redrockcoulee Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Medicine Hat Posts: 2,306	I never was fond of rangefinders hence never wanted a Leica. At a former job I got to borrow a Hasselblad and quickly found it as the camera for me. It just felt right and even though I had a chance for a Bronica and tried Mamiya to me it was worth the extra money to go with the Hasselblad. I got good deals on my gear and even if I can no longer use it in 20 years the extra cost for my preferred gear works out to one day a month. Ask yourself if you are worth an extra dollar a week or a month to go with the Leica.

04-05-2017, 03:01 PM	#8
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,212	If that's the way you want to go, and you're willing (and able) to put the resources there, then go for it. There are a number of rangefinder things I've wanted to do, and I've been pretty satisfied for the moment only going halfway, but your priorities are different ☺ I bought a Fed when I wanted an interchangeable lens rangefinder, and I love it. I then bought a Petri (don't judge) when I wanted a Rollei but was annoyed at the prices (and the Petri has the hot shoe on top...) And that has worked out very well... But my focus is SLRs, with rangefinders the pleasant distraction, so different priorities ☺ -Eric

04-05-2017, 03:08 PM	#9
Eyewanders Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Land of the Salish Sea Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,343	Originally posted by stevebrot I understand that @chickentender has his R3M with VC Scopar 35/2.5 on the block to be sold. True story. Colton's seen it in a couple other channels. I haven't posted it up here - probably ought to. Leica-schmeica, says I. I've handled and shot several but I doubt I'd ever own one. They are excellent cameras but drastically inflated IMO... as with everything, branding and reputation matter, and as you go "up" in anything you see a seriously diminishing amount of return on investment past a certain point. Rave about the Bessa, as I've said elsewhere. If I gelled and shot with rangefinders, I'd most certainly keep it. But... no worries. Honestly, the thing I'll miss most is the Color Skopar - I'm in deep with that lens and think it punches waaaaaay above its price-point in terms of rendering, speed, size etc etc... It has a similar magic to the FA31 on color. Not so contrasty as to look entirely "modern". Not so delicate as to look entirely "vintage". It's just right.

04-05-2017, 04:50 PM	#10
Eyewanders Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Land of the Salish Sea Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,343	(I posted my Bessa kit up in the sales forum here just now, if any are indeed interested.)

04-05-2017, 05:08 PM	#11
TomB_tx Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,446	I bought my Leica M4 in 1969, and have used both Leica and SLRs ever since, but I much prefer using Leica M rangefinders - probably over 80% of my pictures over the years, and more like 95% of low light work. I have an M2 also, and love it's simplicity. It's great with a 35 lens, and much faster to hit focus with one than with an SLR. I haven't used the Canon 35 f1.5, but do use their f1.8 35 with a Canon RF, and it's a nice little lens. My old eyes can still focus a Leica M well even in dim light, while my SLRs aren't so easy any more. If you stumble on a Zeiss Ikon ZM (made in the early 2000s by Cosina), it uses the Leica M mount and has a viewfinder even better than Leica, plus optional aperture priority auto exposure. May not be as rugged as Leica, but a nice user.

04-05-2017, 06:50 PM	#12
skierd Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Fairbanks, AK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,472 Original Poster	Well if it matters, I'm looking at $1250 for the M2 and canon 35mm. Yes, it's an ugly M2, but it is working, and at current prices for the lens I'm looking at a $250 M that works...

04-05-2017, 06:51 PM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by chickentender (I posted my Bessa kit up in the sales forum here just now, if any are indeed interested.) Without a link, it is just a rumor Edit: I forgot...not supposed to promote a listing from the forums. Steve

04-05-2017, 07:15 PM	#14
Eyewanders Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Land of the Salish Sea Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,343	Originally posted by stevebrot Without a link, it is just a rumor Edit: I forgot...not supposed to promote a listing from the forums. Exactly. And it's a good rule; it would become irritating to have for sale pitches invading every thread. I only mentioned it here since you tagged and called out.

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04-05-2017, 07:53 PM - 1 Like	#15
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by TomB_tx If you stumble on a Zeiss Ikon ZM (made in the early 2000s by Cosina), it uses the Leica M mount and has a viewfinder even better than Leica, plus optional aperture priority auto exposure. May not be as rugged as Leica, but a nice user. Definitely a nice user. I almost bought one in 2012 when B&H was closing out their stock at the end of the camera's seven year run. I did not realize what a bargain* an Ikon ZM with Biogon 35/2 was at the time and allowed the opportunity to pass. I can't comment directly regarding build quality, having never handled one, but if is a step up from my Bessa, it ain't flimsy. Steve * I believe the combo was about $1500 at B&H.