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04-19-2017, 01:30 AM   #31
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All mirrorless cameras have less battery life than DSLRs due to the sensor always being on for live view. Plus they tend to have smaller batteries.
I seem to be just fine with one or two batteries for a day trip in my XE-1

04-19-2017, 02:08 AM - 1 Like   #32
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I find it a pointless move.
The camera is more expensive (XT2, XP2) for what is a "like" K3 camera. (win some lose some on both)
You get the "cool" factor, and the Xtrans (plus and minuses), a bit smaller body and some nice modern lenses designed for apsc digital.
On the con side, you pay more, no SR, no cool stuff that a moving sensor can do.

Lenses are pros/cons again - the X series lenses are not small and they get even bigger from 50mm onwards. The good ones are not cheap either, though they can be had for prices commensurate with their quality (and still cheaper than some of the better Canikon lenses)


IMO, Sony A7II makes more sense if you want something different and small, or go all the way and get m4/3.
NEX if you want something cheap, small (with the right lenses), though it does have its own set of problems,
04-19-2017, 02:48 AM - 1 Like   #33
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Went Pentax --> MFT --> Fuji, though I am in the process of evaluating if I really need the Fuji compared to MFT. Pentax has lost it's Mojo for me. Too heavy, no fast small primes. Weather-sealing can be found with both competitors, AF is better for me with both competitors compared to my K5.

Fuji JPEGs are really amazing and not just an internet myth. X-trans is not problem for me with LR CC.

Sony lenses are very expensive for both APSC and fullframe...
04-19-2017, 03:45 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Sony A7II makes more sense if you want something different and small
;-) I like the full frame image quality. The A7II + FA35 2.8 would be small and would cost about 1700 + 800 euros, only :-)
Actually , I could try the FA35 f2 on K1, or even DA35 plastic...it's rather cheap. Then of course the XT2 is nice, I like its design, it has nothing to do with photos.

04-19-2017, 05:42 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
I find it a pointless move.
The camera is more expensive (XT2, XP2) for what is a "like" K3 camera. (win some lose some on both)
You get the "cool" factor, and the Xtrans (plus and minuses), a bit smaller body and some nice modern lenses designed for apsc digital.
On the con side, you pay more, no SR, no cool stuff that a moving sensor can do.

Lenses are pros/cons again - the X series lenses are not small and they get even bigger from 50mm onwards. The good ones are not cheap either, though they can be had for prices commensurate with their quality (and still cheaper than some of the better Canikon lenses)


IMO, Sony A7II makes more sense if you want something different and small, or go all the way and get m4/3.
NEX if you want something cheap, small (with the right lenses), though it does have its own set of problems,
Fuji strike me as a pretty good all-rounder with the usual compromises. You lose IBIS and may have to change workflow (X-Trans not Bayer) but there are impressive gains. 24 mpx on APS-C is a sweet spot at the mo. I don't think it would be pointless if someone really was selling up Brand A and moving to Brand B but it might well be if they were only half doing that or were marking time before going for an FF. Sony are due to replace the A7II later this year, I think, so maybe wait a while before considering that one. Also, all the brands seem to be upping prices at the moment so while some Fuji gear may be quite costly it probably isn't going to be more costly than anything else and might even be less in some cases.

I don't have an FF DSLR but if I did I'd probably be tempted by M43. An M43 cam and 2-3 carefully chosen lenses would make a pretty small kit so ideal for travel and situations where the big stuff is impractical. Sticking to primes can probably make both M43 and Fuji reasonably modest in size. While the shooting experience would be very different, the quality prime vibe is quite Pentax-like, imho.
04-19-2017, 06:09 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
;-) I like the full frame image quality. The A7II + FA35 2.8 would be small and would cost about 1700 + 800 euros, only :-)
Actually , I could try the FA35 f2 on K1, or even DA35 plastic...it's rather cheap. Then of course the XT2 is nice, I like its design, it has nothing to do with photos.

I had wanted to type that its more of a want than a need, but it sounded a bit rude.

A7ii, still smallish.
About the size of a Mz-5n + Pentax lens though a bit longish looking with the PK adapter.



QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Fuji strike me as a pretty good all-rounder with the usual compromises. You lose IBIS and may have to change workflow (X-Trans not Bayer) but there are impressive gains. 24 mpx on APS-C is a sweet spot at the mo. I don't think it would be pointless if someone really was selling up Brand A and moving to Brand B but it might well be if they were only half doing that or were marking time before going for an FF. Sony are due to replace the A7II later this year, I think, so maybe wait a while before considering that one. Also, all the brands seem to be upping prices at the moment so while some Fuji gear may be quite costly it probably isn't going to be more costly than anything else and might even be less in some cases.

I don't have an FF DSLR but if I did I'd probably be tempted by M43. An M43 cam and 2-3 carefully chosen lenses would make a pretty small kit so ideal for travel and situations where the big stuff is impractical. Sticking to primes can probably make both M43 and Fuji reasonably modest in size. While the shooting experience would be very different, the quality prime vibe is quite Pentax-like, imho.
Thats the problem (in my view at least).
A XT2, XP2 is not clearly better than a K3, K3II, KP, KS-2.
Neither are they that small once the lenses are attached and it gets worse with the 50mm and longer lenses which are rather big.

Colors wise... really subjective (I never cared for the Fuji colors)
The X-Trans has no clear advantage over Bayer, resolution wise, noise, moire. ( X-Trans vs Bayer Sensors: Fantastic Claims and How to Test Them )
Even if we forget about that link and I've never seen any advantage even on the DPR comparator.

There's also sensor reflection on the cameras.

Yes, Fuji is a viable system if one starts off new and is willing to pay for some of the nicer lenses.
I like that the focal lengths/f-stops are designed ground up for apsc, and I like how they are priced wrt comparable lenses from other brands (ie. pricey good, but not OMG mortgage my house expensive).

But like I said before this, its a win some lose some wrt Pentax.
Bit bigger body, smaller but slower DA prime lenses, SR (pixel shift and composition adj are really tops), astro tracer for those models with it.


So the choices that are a bit more different may be:
m4/3, though the better lenses are not cheap at all.
There are other pros/cons (been there done that), but too long to list here since this is not in consideration yet by TS.
The problem I have nowadays with m4/3 as an alternative is that the A7 series (A7/A7II/A7s in particular) are just a bit bigger than the high end m4/3 bodies and are a close match in lens sizes as well if one chooses carefully.
(eg. Voigtlander 15viii; Sony FE28/2; Sony FE 50/1.8, or a small lens like a Pentax M50/1.7; Canon LTM 50/1.4, etc)
04-19-2017, 06:29 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
A XT2, XP2 is not clearly better than a K3, K3II, KP, KS-2. Neither are they that small once the lenses are attached and it gets worse with the 50mm and longer lenses which are rather big.
Well, some year ago , I did a 800km bike trip on a race bike, with only a light weight backpack, spare clothes, and a K5+DA40ltd to document the trip. With the K1, it's getting a bit bigger for this kind of use. The rest of the time, I don't find the K1 particularly large, most used lenses: DFA28-105 and DFA150-450. Going u43, being a man, normal sized, I don't like u43, it's too small to have a good grip + downside of the smaller sensor, and actually for the IQ it delivers, it's not cheap at all. So, yeah, the XT2 feels just right in terms of size for comfortable handling, and with 27mm pancake lens, it's rather compact and practically focal length (the DA40 on FF is normal FoV, but on apsc 40mm is too narrow). The reason why I did not get a XT2 is because it's awfully expensive. XT20 more affordable, maybe, not in the same league in terms of build quality.

04-19-2017, 06:44 AM - 1 Like   #38
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Size is not my isse - weight is. And Pentax start with ~700gr. My X-T10 is just below 400... And with the 18-55 OIS it's very capable. A 12mm F2 Samyang is not even available for Pentax....

In the end it boils down to preferences and the best compromise. Mine was first Pentax, then M43 and currently it looks like Fuji. Tried FF once in a while, didnt see any real benefits for my purposes...
04-19-2017, 07:25 AM   #39
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Fuji bodies & lenses are very nice. My only gripe is the lack of IBIS. If they were to implement IBIS into their bodies, I'd definitely be looking in their direction. More than likely I'd be struck by lightning before that ever happens.

The only non-IBIS bodies that I'd shoot with would be Canon or Nikon. They've been at the non-IBIS thing forever.
04-19-2017, 07:39 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Well, some year ago , I did a 800km bike trip on a race bike, with only a light weight backpack, spare clothes, and a K5+DA40ltd to document the trip. With the K1, it's getting a bit bigger for this kind of use. The rest of the time, I don't find the K1 particularly large, most used lenses: DFA28-105 and DFA150-450. Going u43, being a man, normal sized, I don't like u43, it's too small to have a good grip + downside of the smaller sensor, and actually for the IQ it delivers, it's not cheap at all. So, yeah, the XT2 feels just right in terms of size for comfortable handling, and with 27mm pancake lens, it's rather compact and practically focal length (the DA40 on FF is normal FoV, but on apsc 40mm is too narrow). The reason why I did not get a XT2 is because it's awfully expensive. XT20 more affordable, maybe, not in the same league in terms of build quality.
Bike trip... wow...cool

Bicycle or motorbike?


Yeah.. K1 gets kinda bigger and heavier, when real estate space is at a premium on a bike.
But I know I'd kick myself for not going for the best IQ I could, which is why I bring it along

The NEX might suit you fine too.
Much cheaper (ie. no sadness if its stolen or destroyed) , apsc, Sigma 30/2.8 is a real nice lens on this platform.
04-19-2017, 07:54 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Bicycle
Bicycle: every pound added counts.

QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
The NEX might suit you fine too.
Yep, can be had for relatively cheap if not the latest model.
04-19-2017, 09:42 AM - 1 Like   #42
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Lack of IBIS has been a long-time hurdle for me. But then I really analyzed my pictures where I actually used it. I'd estimate it was less than 5%....
04-19-2017, 06:44 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote

I had wanted to type that its more of a want than a need, but it sounded a bit rude.

A7ii, still smallish.
About the size of a Mz-5n + Pentax lens though a bit longish looking with the PK adapter.





Thats the problem (in my view at least).
A XT2, XP2 is not clearly better than a K3, K3II, KP, KS-2.
Neither are they that small once the lenses are attached and it gets worse with the 50mm and longer lenses which are rather big.

Colors wise... really subjective (I never cared for the Fuji colors)
The X-Trans has no clear advantage over Bayer, resolution wise, noise, moire. ( X-Trans vs Bayer Sensors: Fantastic Claims and How to Test Them )
Even if we forget about that link and I've never seen any advantage even on the DPR comparator.

There's also sensor reflection on the cameras.

Yes, Fuji is a viable system if one starts off new and is willing to pay for some of the nicer lenses.
I like that the focal lengths/f-stops are designed ground up for apsc, and I like how they are priced wrt comparable lenses from other brands (ie. pricey good, but not OMG mortgage my house expensive).

But like I said before this, its a win some lose some wrt Pentax.
Bit bigger body, smaller but slower DA prime lenses, SR (pixel shift and composition adj are really tops), astro tracer for those models with it.


So the choices that are a bit more different may be:
m4/3, though the better lenses are not cheap at all.
There are other pros/cons (been there done that), but too long to list here since this is not in consideration yet by TS.
The problem I have nowadays with m4/3 as an alternative is that the A7 series (A7/A7II/A7s in particular) are just a bit bigger than the high end m4/3 bodies and are a close match in lens sizes as well if one chooses carefully.
(eg. Voigtlander 15viii; Sony FE28/2; Sony FE 50/1.8, or a small lens like a Pentax M50/1.7; Canon LTM 50/1.4, etc)
Ha! I'm going to bite here. Yes, this is a first world problem discussion...

Back in 2013, at the time of going to Fuji, I had NEX and even posted a thread on it.

That petapixel link is highly questionable, btw, and I've personally not seen the stuff mentioned after ~4 years of system use.
Bad LR conversions (appearing in DPR) - yes certainly! I have some recent m43 versus fuji images I have to to post, but in a nutshell, LR is not your friend for details - even in 2017. Silkypix, Rawtherapee, and Iridient plugin are better, right out of the gate. However, if you are not pixel peeping, then there really is no difference.

Pentax bodies are heavier. If Pentax had sorted out the lack of a small, wide, sealed prime, I'd still be there. Personally, I've also now messed up my right hand, so I can't carry lots of weight on it, so anything over about 5-600g is too much to carry around all day. Add a WR zoom other than the kit, or the 20-40, and you are over 1kg (add the 60-250mm, and you are much heavier again, but proportionally ~400g down for the Fuji combo. I still have my 60-250mm though....).

If Sony (APS-C) had improved their wides (especially the 20mm), and added WR, i'd still be there. I'd consider the A6500 when it comes down, and have a 20mm 2.8, 35mm F1.8, and 50mm F1.8, and be happy.

For the A7II, you are right, but they are just as bad as Fuji with compressed raws, and horrible sensor corner design. I'd personally take the 35mm F2.8, the 50mm Macro, and something wide (maybe the 28mm Tak). For absolute resolution though, the combo can't be beat, and you get to use old glass at the "proper" FL.

I like my micro 4/3 kit, and enjoyed it while walking for 5 days. Absolute quality at the pixel level doesn't match APS-C, but the flexibility, and lack of weight are pretty good, as is the ease of editing the files. The video is awesome. Body prices are not bad, but you are correct, the good (and sealed) lenses cost. The best deal right now is the G85, where you get a 24-120mm equiv weather-sealed lens for ~$120 more than the body.


Out of all, I probably use my GR the most, and have got the best pictures from it during the last two years. It has a stellar lens, and a good chip.
I certainly enjoy it the most when carrying a backpack.

Last edited by Clarkey; 04-19-2017 at 06:47 PM. Reason: fix link
04-19-2017, 06:57 PM   #44
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The new fuji f2 primes aren't very big, put them on a XE body and you have a fairly small and light travel kit.
I love my XE-1 and 35/2. From what I've read the 23/2 and 50/2 render about the same and I'm hoping to add those to my kit before I get a XT10.

To me 16mp is more than enough.

Having long term experience with pentax (K100d, K200d, K7, K5, and K3), Sony (NEX 5t, A6000, and A7), and now Fuji (XE-1) I think the fuji lens quality is up there with Sony's Zeiss lenses and even though the DA limiteds are great, I think fuji might have them beat....but that all comes down to taste and how you like your lenses to render images.
04-19-2017, 07:02 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Squirrel Mafia Quote
Fuji bodies & lenses are very nice. My only gripe is the lack of IBIS. If they were to implement IBIS into their bodies, I'd definitely be looking in their direction. More than likely I'd be struck by lightning before that ever happens.

The only non-IBIS bodies that I'd shoot with would be Canon or Nikon. They've been at the non-IBIS thing forever.
Yeah, apparently they can't though. The imaging circle matches the lens mount. There's no wriggle room for IBIS. I'll see if I can hunt up the link.
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