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04-20-2017, 02:54 AM - 1 Like   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
Ha! I'm going to bite here. Yes, this is a first world problem discussion...

Back in 2013, at the time of going to Fuji, I had NEX and even posted a thread on it.

That petapixel link is highly questionable, btw, and I've personally not seen the stuff mentioned after ~4 years of system use.
Bad LR conversions (appearing in DPR) - yes certainly! I have some recent m43 versus fuji images I have to to post, but in a nutshell, LR is not your friend for details - even in 2017. Silkypix, Rawtherapee, and Iridient plugin are better, right out of the gate. However, if you are not pixel peeping, then there really is no difference.

Pentax bodies are heavier. If Pentax had sorted out the lack of a small, wide, sealed prime, I'd still be there. Personally, I've also now messed up my right hand, so I can't carry lots of weight on it, so anything over about 5-600g is too much to carry around all day. Add a WR zoom other than the kit, or the 20-40, and you are over 1kg (add the 60-250mm, and you are much heavier again, but proportionally ~400g down for the Fuji combo. I still have my 60-250mm though....).

If Sony (APS-C) had improved their wides (especially the 20mm), and added WR, i'd still be there. I'd consider the A6500 when it comes down, and have a 20mm 2.8, 35mm F1.8, and 50mm F1.8, and be happy.

For the A7II, you are right, but they are just as bad as Fuji with compressed raws, and horrible sensor corner design. I'd personally take the 35mm F2.8, the 50mm Macro, and something wide (maybe the 28mm Tak). For absolute resolution though, the combo can't be beat, and you get to use old glass at the "proper" FL.

I like my micro 4/3 kit, and enjoyed it while walking for 5 days. Absolute quality at the pixel level doesn't match APS-C, but the flexibility, and lack of weight are pretty good, as is the ease of editing the files. The video is awesome. Body prices are not bad, but you are correct, the good (and sealed) lenses cost. The best deal right now is the G85, where you get a 24-120mm equiv weather-sealed lens for ~$120 more than the body.


Out of all, I probably use my GR the most, and have got the best pictures from it during the last two years. It has a stellar lens, and a good chip.
I certainly enjoy it the most when carrying a backpack.
Most people who have used both Fuji and Pentax say that if you shoot RAW, you probably get similar performance with regard to the sensor. X Trans propaganda is a bit of a smoke screen, but the K3 and K-P don't have AA filters (can simulate one with SR if needed) and probably show similar moire to Fuji cameras.

I think the big thing going for Fuji is their jpeg engine, which is really good. If you do a lot of portraiture, it probably is adequate. If on the other hand, you do much landscape, you probably won't be comfortable using jpegs for that, as you can't get as much out of the jpeg when you process it.

I think from biz-engineer's standpoint, the biggest negatives of Fuji are (a) needing a different set of lenses to shoot with and (b) having a different set of ergonomics to get used to. If he is comfortable dealing with both of those things then it is reasonable to move with a second system.

04-20-2017, 03:21 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think from biz-engineer's standpoint, the biggest negatives of Fuji are (a) needing a different set of lenses to shoot with and (b) having a different set of ergonomics to get used to. If he is comfortable dealing with both of those things then it is reasonable to move with a second system.
Well, I love the Fuji design and consider it for use with a pancake lenses, otherwise, when using longer lenses, the size advantage gets lost. Of course, the problem of using two different camera systems having completely different user interfaces. And of course, having two different sets of accessories hanging around (batteries, chargers etc), + two different workflows for processing the raws. I'd rather mount a FA35 f2 or a DA35 f2.4 (124gr and cost 120 euros...) or 40XS on my K1, I'd get 36Mpixels full frame images for less money spent. I'm going to wait and see, use my DFA28-105 and occasionally grab a DA35 or FA35. Eventually, the XT2 will become cheaper when the next model will be released, at that point I'll get one.
04-20-2017, 05:15 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
... + two different workflows for processing the raws...
Seriously, this is simply not the case. Adobe products do fine with Fuji raws. The only difference from any other workflow is that if you sharpen a Fuji raw in Lightroom and ACR in the same way that you would a bayer raw you will get gross artifacts. That's literally the only difference. C1 Pro, Silkypix, Rawtherapee, Darktable, On1; they all support Fuji raw.

The only case I can think of where you would be forced to work out a unique workflow for Fuji files is if you are a DxO user as that processor simply doesn't support x-trans files at all.

Barely any coffee in me yet, so, please forgive / ignore any cranky vibes :-)
04-20-2017, 05:55 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Homo_erectus Quote
Seriously, this is simply not the case. Adobe products do fine with Fuji raws. The only difference from any other workflow is that if you sharpen a Fuji raw in Lightroom and ACR in the same way that you would a bayer raw you will get gross artifacts. That's literally the only difference. C1 Pro, Silkypix, Rawtherapee, Darktable, On1; they all support Fuji raw. The only case I can think of where you would be forced to work out a unique workflow for Fuji files is if you are a DxO user as that processor simply doesn't support x-trans files at all.
Thanks for the info, it's good to know.

04-20-2017, 06:30 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Thanks for the info, it's good to know.
In lightroom, the approach I use is to set the radius to it's lowest setting, .5, detail in the 80-100 range (I usually start with 100 and only lower it if I have to), and the amount to a very low value, around the mid-to-high teens at the highest. Then use the masking slider to make the sharpening only be applied to edges rather than the whole image. Using the masking this way makes sure LR won't sharpen any noise in the image.

In my experience, the "it's full of worms" tipping point is around high 20s to low 30s on the amount slider with radius at .5, and detail at 100. Obviously it changes a bit on an image-to-image basis depending on the ISO, how far the exposure has been adjusted in LR, the lens used, type of scene, etc.

If you hold the alt/option key while moving the sliders, LR changes the preview in a way that makes it a little easier to see what is going on. For Amount, Radius, and Detail it turns the image black and white, for Masking it shows the parts of the image that will be sharpened in White and the parts that will not be sharpened in Black.

My default preset that is applied to all fuji files during import has sharpening set to 15, .5, 100, and 50 top to bottom in the sharpening section. Then I adjust a bit from there.

Also, LR's output sharpening is still garbage and will introduce artifacts in almost every image it's applied to, even on the "low" setting. So, avoid that at all costs :-P

If anyone is a C1 Pro user, I'd be happy to share my approach in that program too.

Hope that's helpful :-)
04-20-2017, 06:39 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Homo_erectus Quote
Seriously, this is simply not the case. Adobe products do fine with Fuji raws. The only difference from any other workflow is that if you sharpen a Fuji raw in Lightroom and ACR in the same way that you would a bayer raw you will get gross artifacts. That's literally the only difference. C1 Pro, Silkypix, Rawtherapee, Darktable, On1; they all support Fuji raw.

The only case I can think of where you would be forced to work out a unique workflow for Fuji files is if you are a DxO user as that processor simply doesn't support x-trans files at all.

Barely any coffee in me yet, so, please forgive / ignore any cranky vibes :-)
I think the issue is that if you have a mixture of Fuji XT-2 and Pentax K-1 files and you are trying to go through processing them at the same time, you can't use the same preset for the Fuji and Pentax files in Lightroom. Of course, you would run into the same issues if you were shooting with a 6D and K-1...
04-20-2017, 06:47 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Driline Quote
What is the big deal regarding battery life? So you get 200 or 300 shots per battery. Is it that difficult to pop in a $10 dollar wasabi replacement?

I purchased a used Fuji X-T1 for $550 and a 27mm pancake lens for $275. After testing it against my NEW Pentax K-3 with FA 31mm I decided to sell ALL my Pentax gear and go 100% Fuji. Take that for what it's worth.
That 31 on a K-1 will mop the floor with any APC camera, but I see what you're saying. I have trouble classifying any FF or APS-c system as "portable because of the size of the lenses. My Q, now that's portable.

People have been ditching DSLRs for more portable systems for quite a while now. But, with the K-1 out it does become an IQ issue for some of us. At this point I use APS-c only for wildlife/birding, and something like a Fuji makes little difference to size, it's the lenses that are most of the weight.

But if you like the Fuji 27 that much, you made a good choice "Find the lens you love and buy the system it goes on."

04-20-2017, 06:49 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think the issue is that if you have a mixture of Fuji XT-2 and Pentax K-1 files and you are trying to go through processing them at the same time, you can't use the same preset for the Fuji and Pentax files in Lightroom. Of course, you would run into the same issues if you were shooting with a 6D and K-1...
It's easy to set presets in LR to apply to different cameras and also to make different cameras have different default settings. Both LR and C1 Pro can do this. You can do this with ACR and Bridge too.
04-20-2017, 10:19 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
But if you like the Fuji 27 that much, you made a good choice "Find the lens you love and buy the system it goes on."
Dammit Norm, you weren't supposed to know I switched systems. What are you doing down here in the bowels of the forum anyway? LOL. Yea, I think the K-3 with the existing 200 and 300mm lenses is still the way to go for birding obviously but I really don't do much of that. So the Fuji makes sense for me. I needed something more portable for everyday use and vacationing so the Fuji really hit the mark with their smaller APS-c bodies. And the fact that the jpegs are just gorgeous right out of the camera. They looked much better than my K-3 and FA 31 so that pretty much convinced me to switch. So yea....I got a new girlfriend .....A bit smaller and petite and sexy as hell
04-20-2017, 10:30 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Homo_erectus Quote
It's easy to set presets in LR to apply to different cameras and also to make different cameras have different default settings. Both LR and C1 Pro can do this. You can do this with ACR and Bridge too.
After many requests, no one has ever shown a set of images demonstrating at a pixel level that a lens and post processing can be better than the image produced by a better lens and post processing. I wish folks would just drop this type of argument.
04-20-2017, 10:47 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
After many requests, no one has ever shown a set of images demonstrating at a pixel level that a lens and post processing can be better than the image produced by a better lens and post processing. I wish folks would just drop this type of argument.
You clearly didn't read, or didn't understand, my post.

In the future, you could avoid this embarrassing situation by reading the actual words in a persons post instead of lecturing people about things you imagined.
04-20-2017, 12:43 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Homo_erectus Quote
You clearly didn't read, or didn't understand, my post.

In the future, you could avoid this embarrassing situation by reading the actual words in a persons post instead of lecturing people about things you imagined.
I quoted exactly what I was responding to, and said exactly what i wanted to say. So right back at you.

My point is, if you are happy with your lenses you don't have to do that stuff, at all, and I don't. I use exactly the same presets for every lens. It just doesn't make that much difference. That's what i recommend, I don't even care "what you can do" if it's un-necessary.

Why would I respond to the body of your post if I consider it to be irrelevant?

I'm not embarrassed at all, how are you doing?

Is this an embarrassing situation for you?
04-20-2017, 02:24 PM   #58
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No one was talking about lenses in regards to raw processing. You completely imagined the connection.

We were talking about raw processors and fuji raw files. You came into an ongoing conversation, dropped a complete non sequitur that was rude and condescending and now you've derailed the conversation entirely.

So, well done.
04-20-2017, 02:40 PM   #59
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Well then my apologies. I'll take your word for it,
04-20-2017, 02:49 PM   #60
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I went to the store with the full intention of buying a Fuji xt20 but after handling the camera I decided it was too small for my big mitts and left empty handed.

I'm still interested in checking out the xt2 but it is out of stock still.
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