Sony A9 Officially Announced Today

Winder · 06-23-2017, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by rawr

They use the Sigma 70mm f2.8 macro wherever possible.

I don't know why they stopped. The 70mm macro was a good lens that at one point was available in every mount. Wasn't the glass slightly radio active or something? That is why it went out of production?

rawr · 06-23-2017, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by Winder

That is why it went out of production?

Long ago Sigma seem to have stopped making any macro primes shorter than 105mm, for some reason. Maybe 70mm just wasn't what people were buying. Pity though, since it was indeed available for just about every mount (even Four Thirds, apparently), and hence was great as a test lens.

JohnBee · 06-23-2017, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by Winder

I find it hard to believe that a 24MP sensor with and AA filter is capturing as much detail as a 42MP without and AA filter. Sounds like the lens might be the limitation. I own the 55mm FE and it is very very sharp if you have a good copy.

I finally figured out what they did here and it doesn't seem very helpful.
As it turns out the samples above are part of a downsampling process in where the a9 is compared to the a7r II at the same resolution.

normhead · 06-23-2017, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by JohnBee

I finally figured out what they did here and it doesn't seem very helpful.
As it turns out the samples above are part of a downsampling process in where the a9 is compared to the a7r II at the same resolution.

I've done the same with a D800 and a K-5 and it was quite a bit below maximum resolution that the K-5 and D800 were about the same. so it still means something. Just maybe not what it sounded like. AT about 4000 pixels wide the D800 and K-5 images were about the same at 4900 pixels the D800 was still better.

Winder · 06-24-2017, 06:47 AM

You Tube

**ffking** · 06-24-2017, 10:16 AM

watching that ^ has made me sure of what I already suspected - I have no problem with the A9 being a great sports camera - I love technology, and technological advances, and have no problems with Sony as a company - what I don't like is hype and triumphalism, which always have that edge of comparison, always saying this is great, you're second best. Pentax solve different problems, have different priorities - the K-1. for instance, is no a lesser camera because of the A9 - and vice versa - as photographers we want the best tools for what we do, and I welcome any entrant into that field.

Winder · 06-24-2017, 11:20 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by ffking

watching that ^ has made me sure of what I already suspected - I have no problem with the A9 being a great sports camera - I love technology, and technological advances, and have no problems with Sony as a company - what I don't like is hype and triumphalism, which always have that edge of comparison, always saying this is great, you're second best. Pentax solve different problems, have different priorities - the K-1. for instance, is no a lesser camera because of the A9 - and vice versa - as photographers we want the best tools for what we do, and I welcome any entrant into that field.

What part of the video do you see as hype? I see excitement for new technology. If this were a Pentax camera that was shooting 20fps silently, with no black-out, and really amazing AF tracking people on this board would be holding it up as the greatest camera ever.

I think people personalize gear and brands too much. There is no "your second best" about it. This is about technology not people. Sony went from have awful AF in the A7 to have industry leading AF in 5 years. That is an amazing accomplishment. Sony obviously listened to the criticism from photographers and invested the resources needed to make the improvements. People criticized the A7's battery life and Sony responded by making a major improvement. People criticized the lack of a joystick on the back and a dedicated button for back button AF and Sony added it. People criticized the EVF and Sony doubled the refresh rate and increased resolution. It was only a few years ago that it was obvious that Sony didn't listen to its customers. The A900 is a perfect example of a company not interested in listening and making improvements. Regardless of any other brand or camera, what Sony has done in 5 years is very impressive and other companies should be taking notes. Does this mean that the A9 is the best camera ever? No. It just means that Sony is working very hard at improving and listening to its users (and Canon/Nikon users).

**ffking** · 06-24-2017, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Winder

What part of the video do you see as hype?

not that one - that's why it confirmed what I thought

surfar · 06-24-2017, 05:06 PM

It'd be nice if the A9 fails and they FIREsale it for 50% of the present price....

mee · 06-24-2017, 05:51 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Winder

What part of the video do you see as hype? I see excitement for new technology. If this were a Pentax camera that was shooting 20fps silently, with no black-out, and really amazing AF tracking people on this board would be holding it up as the greatest camera ever.

I think people personalize gear and brands too much.

Indeed. And it isn't an issue only here or even just in the realm of photography brands, but brands in general. It is sad.

I find it is one thing to enjoy a brand, make use of the brand's products, and discuss the brand's products.. even argue the merits of the brand to others. But there is a fine line between brand appreciation and adopting a mentality that the brand is an extension of one's self. I think that is why we get so many hurt feelings and arguments when other brand's products are mentioned in a positive light, people feel threatened because they've mentally absorbed the brand as a part of themselves... thus, in their mind, you are attacking them. It's wild!

Originally posted by Winder

There is no "your second best" about it. This is about technology not people. Sony went from have awful AF in the A7 to have industry leading AF in 5 years. That is an amazing accomplishment. Sony obviously listened to the criticism from photographers and invested the resources needed to make the improvements.

Here here. I don't even like mirrorless cameras yet I'm happy to see the A9 out there and what it can do... just from a technological standpoint.

And I hope Ricoh continue to invest in Pentax in a similar (yet knowingly not as intensive) manner over the next few years with DSLRs.

Winder · 06-24-2017, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by surfar

It'd be nice if the A9 fails and they FIREsale it for 50% of the present price....

It would be nice in the short run, but in the long run it might be bad. If Sony doesn't recover the R&D costs of the A9 relatively quickly (1-2 years) then they might not invest so heavily in the R&D. If it fails then Sony might become cautious like Ricoh and ~~stop innovating~~ slow development way down. I don't think that is goof for anyone. Best case scenario is that the A9 is wildly successful and sells like hot cakes causing Sony to bring out more models.... Then the A9 would fall in price as it is replaced. The more success Sony is having the more likely they are to keep their foot on the gas.

With the A7III expected to be released this fall, most of the A9 tech will probably be available for just under $2,000. It will probably only handle 5fps and won't have the buffer, Ethernet port, or new battery/body, but you will have the EVF, sensor, and the AF.

surfar · 06-24-2017, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Winder

you will have the EVF, sensor, and the AF.

That's the RUMOUR @ this stage....8/9fps might swing me ????.....I considered the A7(2) before I invested in K1.I d like it(A9) to fail and be cheeeeep soon,BECAUSE i'd like it now!

JohnBee · 06-24-2017, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by surfar

That's the RUMOUR @ this stage....8/9fps might swing me ????.....I considered the A7(2) before I invested in K1.I d like it(A9) to fail and be cheeeeep soon,BECAUSE i'd like it now!

If you wait long enough, it will come down in price

Kunzite · 06-25-2017, 12:30 AM

Sony slowing down might not be necessarily bad. They give me the feeling of a company who would throw money at a problem, and at some point, having destroyed the ILC market, they would have no qualm in exiting the business.

**ffking** · 06-25-2017, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by mee

Originally posted by Winder
What part of the video do you see as hype? I see excitement for new technology. If this were a Pentax camera that was shooting 20fps silently, with no black-out, and really amazing AF tracking people on this board would be holding it up as the greatest camera ever.

I think people personalize gear and brands too much.
Indeed. And it isn't an issue only here or even just in the realm of photography brands, but brands in general. It is sad.

I find it is one thing to enjoy a brand, make use of the brand's products, and discuss the brand's products.. even argue the merits of the brand to others. But there is a fine line between brand appreciation and adopting a mentality that the brand is an extension of one's self. I think that is why we get so many hurt feelings and arguments when other brand's products are mentioned in a positive light, people feel threatened because they've mentally absorbed the brand as a part of themselves... thus, in their mind, you are attacking them. It's wild!

Originally posted by Winder
There is no "your second best" about it. This is about technology not people. Sony went from have awful AF in the A7 to have industry leading AF in 5 years. That is an amazing accomplishment. Sony obviously listened to the criticism from photographers and invested the resources needed to make the improvements.
Here here. I don't even like mirrorless cameras yet I'm happy to see the A9 out there and what it can do... just from a technological standpoint.

And I hope Ricoh continue to invest in Pentax in a similar (yet knowingly not as intensive) manner over the next few years with DSLRs.

What i was trying to say, perhaps unclearly, in the post to which Winder responded, and you responded to his response, was that the video clip in question is the sort I don't have a problem with, just as I don't have a problem with Sony or the A9 - I think I said I welcomed the A9, I just don't like people using one brand to bash another - that was my intention, anyway.

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06-23-2017, 06:35 AM	#481
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by rawr They use the Sigma 70mm f2.8 macro wherever possible. I don't know why they stopped. The 70mm macro was a good lens that at one point was available in every mount. Wasn't the glass slightly radio active or something? That is why it went out of production?

06-23-2017, 08:51 AM	#482
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Winder That is why it went out of production? Long ago Sigma seem to have stopped making any macro primes shorter than 105mm, for some reason. Maybe 70mm just wasn't what people were buying. Pity though, since it was indeed available for just about every mount (even Four Thirds, apparently), and hence was great as a test lens.

06-23-2017, 09:53 AM	#483
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by Winder I find it hard to believe that a 24MP sensor with and AA filter is capturing as much detail as a 42MP without and AA filter. Sounds like the lens might be the limitation. I own the 55mm FE and it is very very sharp if you have a good copy. I finally figured out what they did here and it doesn't seem very helpful. As it turns out the samples above are part of a downsampling process in where the a9 is compared to the a7r II at the same resolution.

06-23-2017, 10:51 AM	#484
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by JohnBee I finally figured out what they did here and it doesn't seem very helpful. As it turns out the samples above are part of a downsampling process in where the a9 is compared to the a7r II at the same resolution. I've done the same with a D800 and a K-5 and it was quite a bit below maximum resolution that the K-5 and D800 were about the same. so it still means something. Just maybe not what it sounded like. AT about 4000 pixels wide the D800 and K-5 images were about the same at 4900 pixels the D800 was still better.

06-24-2017, 10:16 AM	#486
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	watching that ^ has made me sure of what I already suspected - I have no problem with the A9 being a great sports camera - I love technology, and technological advances, and have no problems with Sony as a company - what I don't like is hype and triumphalism, which always have that edge of comparison, always saying this is great, you're second best. Pentax solve different problems, have different priorities - the K-1. for instance, is no a lesser camera because of the A9 - and vice versa - as photographers we want the best tools for what we do, and I welcome any entrant into that field.

06-24-2017, 11:20 AM - 2 Likes	#487
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by ffking watching that ^ has made me sure of what I already suspected - I have no problem with the A9 being a great sports camera - I love technology, and technological advances, and have no problems with Sony as a company - what I don't like is hype and triumphalism, which always have that edge of comparison, always saying this is great, you're second best. Pentax solve different problems, have different priorities - the K-1. for instance, is no a lesser camera because of the A9 - and vice versa - as photographers we want the best tools for what we do, and I welcome any entrant into that field. What part of the video do you see as hype? I see excitement for new technology. If this were a Pentax camera that was shooting 20fps silently, with no black-out, and really amazing AF tracking people on this board would be holding it up as the greatest camera ever. I think people personalize gear and brands too much. There is no "your second best" about it. This is about technology not people. Sony went from have awful AF in the A7 to have industry leading AF in 5 years. That is an amazing accomplishment. Sony obviously listened to the criticism from photographers and invested the resources needed to make the improvements. People criticized the A7's battery life and Sony responded by making a major improvement. People criticized the lack of a joystick on the back and a dedicated button for back button AF and Sony added it. People criticized the EVF and Sony doubled the refresh rate and increased resolution. It was only a few years ago that it was obvious that Sony didn't listen to its customers. The A900 is a perfect example of a company not interested in listening and making improvements. Regardless of any other brand or camera, what Sony has done in 5 years is very impressive and other companies should be taking notes. Does this mean that the A9 is the best camera ever? No. It just means that Sony is working very hard at improving and listening to its users (and Canon/Nikon users).

06-24-2017, 12:14 PM	#488
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by Winder What part of the video do you see as hype? not that one - that's why it confirmed what I thought

06-24-2017, 05:06 PM	#489
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,137	It'd be nice if the A9 fails and they FIREsale it for 50% of the present price....

06-24-2017, 05:51 PM - 1 Like	#490
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by Winder What part of the video do you see as hype? I see excitement for new technology. If this were a Pentax camera that was shooting 20fps silently, with no black-out, and really amazing AF tracking people on this board would be holding it up as the greatest camera ever. I think people personalize gear and brands too much. Indeed. And it isn't an issue only here or even just in the realm of photography brands, but brands in general. It is sad. I find it is one thing to enjoy a brand, make use of the brand's products, and discuss the brand's products.. even argue the merits of the brand to others. But there is a fine line between brand appreciation and adopting a mentality that the brand is an extension of one's self. I think that is why we get so many hurt feelings and arguments when other brand's products are mentioned in a positive light, people feel threatened because they've mentally absorbed the brand as a part of themselves... thus, in their mind, you are attacking them. It's wild! Originally posted by Winder There is no "your second best" about it. This is about technology not people. Sony went from have awful AF in the A7 to have industry leading AF in 5 years. That is an amazing accomplishment. Sony obviously listened to the criticism from photographers and invested the resources needed to make the improvements. Here here. I don't even like mirrorless cameras yet I'm happy to see the A9 out there and what it can do... just from a technological standpoint. And I hope Ricoh continue to invest in Pentax in a similar (yet knowingly not as intensive) manner over the next few years with DSLRs.

06-24-2017, 07:27 PM	#491
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by surfar It'd be nice if the A9 fails and they FIREsale it for 50% of the present price.... It would be nice in the short run, but in the long run it might be bad. If Sony doesn't recover the R&D costs of the A9 relatively quickly (1-2 years) then they might not invest so heavily in the R&D. If it fails then Sony might become cautious like Ricoh and ~~stop innovating~~ slow development way down. I don't think that is goof for anyone. Best case scenario is that the A9 is wildly successful and sells like hot cakes causing Sony to bring out more models.... Then the A9 would fall in price as it is replaced. The more success Sony is having the more likely they are to keep their foot on the gas. With the A7III expected to be released this fall, most of the A9 tech will probably be available for just under $2,000. It will probably only handle 5fps and won't have the buffer, Ethernet port, or new battery/body, but you will have the EVF, sensor, and the AF.

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06-24-2017, 08:12 PM	#492
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,137	Originally posted by Winder you will have the EVF, sensor, and the AF. That's the RUMOUR @ this stage....8/9fps might swing me ????.....I considered the A7(2) before I invested in K1.I d like it(A9) to fail and be cheeeeep soon,BECAUSE i'd like it now!

06-24-2017, 08:59 PM	#493
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by surfar That's the RUMOUR @ this stage....8/9fps might swing me ????.....I considered the A7(2) before I invested in K1.I d like it(A9) to fail and be cheeeeep soon,BECAUSE i'd like it now! If you wait long enough, it will come down in price

06-25-2017, 12:30 AM	#494
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Sony slowing down might not be necessarily bad. They give me the feeling of a company who would throw money at a problem, and at some point, having destroyed the ILC market, they would have no qualm in exiting the business.

06-25-2017, 12:42 AM	#495
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by mee Originally posted by Winder What part of the video do you see as hype? I see excitement for new technology. If this were a Pentax camera that was shooting 20fps silently, with no black-out, and really amazing AF tracking people on this board would be holding it up as the greatest camera ever. I think people personalize gear and brands too much. Indeed. And it isn't an issue only here or even just in the realm of photography brands, but brands in general. It is sad. I find it is one thing to enjoy a brand, make use of the brand's products, and discuss the brand's products.. even argue the merits of the brand to others. But there is a fine line between brand appreciation and adopting a mentality that the brand is an extension of one's self. I think that is why we get so many hurt feelings and arguments when other brand's products are mentioned in a positive light, people feel threatened because they've mentally absorbed the brand as a part of themselves... thus, in their mind, you are attacking them. It's wild! Originally posted by Winder There is no "your second best" about it. This is about technology not people. Sony went from have awful AF in the A7 to have industry leading AF in 5 years. That is an amazing accomplishment. Sony obviously listened to the criticism from photographers and invested the resources needed to make the improvements. Here here. I don't even like mirrorless cameras yet I'm happy to see the A9 out there and what it can do... just from a technological standpoint. And I hope Ricoh continue to invest in Pentax in a similar (yet knowingly not as intensive) manner over the next few years with DSLRs. What i was trying to say, perhaps unclearly, in the post to which Winder responded, and you responded to his response, was that the video clip in question is the sort I don't have a problem with, just as I don't have a problem with Sony or the A9 - I think I said I welcomed the A9, I just don't like people using one brand to bash another - that was my intention, anyway.