Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-13-2017, 07:14 PM   #16
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,707
Original Poster
Pistol Pete Proudly Promotes Pentax Products. It works.. someone get on the horn and make it happen.

05-13-2017, 07:35 PM   #17
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 48,350
Ricoh doesn't want their cameras sold in big box stores. Their US strategy in recent years has been centered around e-commerce, with a main focus on their own web store (which I think is a mistake), but it is what it is. Would be great for places like target and best buy to carry the Theta and lowest DSLR model, IMO

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

05-13-2017, 08:19 PM   #18
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
micromacro's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Florida
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,520
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Ricoh could use social media, blogs, brand ambassadors, to start getting brand recognition.
Sure they can. Then what? Where to find cameras and hold them in hands at least? Not talking about testing. The closest places to me that I've known to see Pentax are BH and Adorama. Not a big deal, just about 3 hours flight.
When I've been shopping for first DSLR back in 2013, I had no idea that Pentax makes DSLRs. And yes, I've been searching online and at stores. The first time I've heard about Pentax was from Canon forum, after I finally got Canon as a fist camera. Only then I read that people use old manual lenses, including Pentax glass, and finally! Surprise, Pentax still exists.

I bought Canon at BestBuy, btw. For many years, while I've been flirting with the idea to get "better camera for better pictures", I've never seen Pentax there. I would remember if I would see it.

Last edited by micromacro; 05-13-2017 at 08:27 PM.
05-13-2017, 09:01 PM   #19
Site Supporter
FilmORbitz's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 144
I'll speculate that a vast majority of current Pentax digital users are of an age that they were also film users first. An aging crowd that has disposable income, but are also fast approaching our sell-by date (I know--speak for myself). So Pentax needs new young blood if they are to survive. And reasons for those younger users to be interested. That means cameras with superior internet connectivity across the board, and phone apps second to none.

In this regard, the entire ILC industry is only now starting to respond, with most phone apps barely at the "crappy" level. So Pentax has an opportunity here but only if they act quickly and with precision.

The second piece is allowing these younger users to discover that a Pentax is built better and more enjoyable to use. Any strategy that doesn't emphasize a hands-on shopping experience will squander the brand's biggest advantage -- so an internet-only scheme is fatally flawed. It would prove the bean-counters are fully in control--the marketing guys having been marginalized following the Fisher-Price 128-flavor fiasco.

Without some wide-spread opportunity for new customers to come into physical contact with this sort of product, the product will not survive. Sorry....

05-13-2017, 09:18 PM   #20
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon Cascades
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 11,780
QuoteOriginally posted by micromacro Quote
Sure they can. Then what? Where to find cameras and hold them in hands at least? Not talking about testing.
Check the company I referenced above. Not sold in stores, only Amazon etc. at first. Only later got noticed and picked up by Kohls and others. They have built a strong, amazing business selling a completely mundane item that everyone else thought was a mature, fulfilled, declining category. No one has actually bought a pressure cooker since my grandmother was young. And now it is the hottest kitchen gadget going. They did that with social media advertising and getting their customers to be their salespeople.

Sorry, but hold them in hands is not necessary for everyone. I bought a k-x sight unseen. I bought a k-5, k-5II, k-3, k-3II and k-1 without ever seeing one. I completely understand that does not work for everyone. It does work for the current generation. They grew up buying online and returning if they don't like. I buy online or in stores, I hate returning things, not the way I was brought up. But today it's no big deal.

And so what if they cannot hold it in their hands? How does that make Ricoh any worse off? At least they have brand recognition. Get enough brand recognition and retailers will be calling Ricoh. Obviously the other way around is not working.
05-13-2017, 09:25 PM   #21
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
micromacro's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Florida
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,520
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
And so what if they cannot hold it in their hands? How does that make Ricoh any worse off? At least they have brand recognition. Get enough brand recognition and retailers will be calling Ricoh. Obviously the other way around is not working.
It does not make Ricoh worse, it makes their advertising very poor.
05-13-2017, 09:28 PM   #22
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon Cascades
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 11,780
QuoteOriginally posted by micromacro Quote
It does not make Ricoh worse, it makes their advertising very poor.
They currently have no advertising, poor or otherwise.
05-13-2017, 09:49 PM   #23
Site Supporter
FilmORbitz's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 144
jatrax -- Ricoh has brand recognition to the office supply manager, and he/she isn't buying cameras. Your initial k-x purchase may have been "sight unseen" but it was predicated on your understanding that Pentax was a major player. The subsequent purchases were just iterative improvements of the initial product, so no mystery. It is not prudent to assume that an impulse purchase of a $29 pressure-cooker or $5 Pet Rock obeys the same dynamics as a $1000+ camera purchase--there is much more at stake, if only enduring the wait for that giant refund to be approved.
You can simply observe that the successful players make an ongoing effort to be available wherever possible, Clubs, big-box, etc. They know what is required.


Last edited by FilmORbitz; 05-13-2017 at 09:55 PM.
05-14-2017, 12:37 AM   #24
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2012
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,192
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Ricoh doesn't want their cameras sold in big box stores. Their US strategy in recent years has been centered around e-commerce, with a main focus on their own web store (which I think is a mistake), but it is what it is. Would be great for places like target and best buy to carry the Theta and lowest DSLR model, IMO
Best Buy does have the theta is some stores
05-14-2017, 07:23 AM   #25
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 410
My local best buy has more empty shelf space than used shelf space. Seriously, it looks like the day after the zombie apocalypse in there every day of the week. And all they have on hand for cameras is a few sonys, the most entry level model from Canon and Nikon, a bunch of Go Pros and a huge display of Fuji Instax cameras and film!
05-14-2017, 07:51 AM   #26
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,707
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by FilmORbitz Quote
jatrax -- Ricoh has brand recognition to the office supply manager, and he/she isn't buying cameras. Your initial k-x purchase may have been "sight unseen" but it was predicated on your understanding that Pentax was a major player. The subsequent purchases were just iterative improvements of the initial product, so no mystery. It is not prudent to assume that an impulse purchase of a $29 pressure-cooker or $5 Pet Rock obeys the same dynamics as a $1000+ camera purchase--there is much more at stake, if only enduring the wait for that giant refund to be approved.
You can simply observe that the successful players make an ongoing effort to be available wherever possible, Clubs, big-box, etc. They know what is required.
But the K-x was never a $1000 dollar camera purchase.. I had one in 2010 when they were still the current entry K mount DSLR and got it for $500 with the kit lens. I think they were around $600 USD normally. Very very few (if any) people are impulse buying even a $500 dollar DSLR. But they will see it in store.. hold it even.. get used to the brand name. Even if they don't buy there is one more person who knows the brand exists.. and if they liked what they saw even if they don't buy might drop the name to others.

I only discovered Pentax from a coworker (now friend) who was also starting an interest in photography. I was about to buy a Nikon (since my dad had Nikon when I was a kid so I knew Nikon) and the coworker mentioned Pentax. So I ran a google search.. after a few positive reviews (including a rather nice one from DPReview) I decided to order one online.

I really didn't know what I was doing at the time.. I just wanted a DSLR and, from what I saw in the reviews, the entry Pentax offered a lot over competitors for the money.

Had the coworker/friend not dropped the Pentax name.. I wouldn't have known they existed... at all. What's a Pentax? That's common here for those who didn't start in film days.

He only knew of Pentax because he had some of his Grandfather's film gear.. Pentax of course... but he ended up going with a Canon Rebel since he found a great deal on one. Doh.

The point being.. there is little to no brand recognition of Pentax in the US outside of older folks or the adventurous who are familiar with the Pentax legacy. Pentax is seen as a vintage / outdated brand if it is ever seen or thought of at all.

So I don't discount the value of hype and brand image and recognition in today's economy.. it is very important. Pentax (Ricoh) can't just offered nice products and expect people to come to them as a result. Momentum matters.. which is why Canon can pump out subpar cameras at inflated price and people still swarm. Today they are seen as the 'safe' bet in the market too.. so the momentum grows.
05-15-2017, 01:20 AM - 1 Like   #27
Pentaxian
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,018
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
The Canon 6D I tried was pretty subpar to me.. Just sort of cheap.. How Canon sells those so easily is beyond me.
Maybe because the image quality is similar to 5D Mark III and is also slightly better than 5D Mark III at high ISO and dynamic range? Not to mention that you can buy 2 6D's with the money you spend buying a 5D Mark III? 2 bodies are better than one when comes to paid jobs. When I've tested 6D side by side with K-3 II, the only thing I wanted from Pentax was the build quality. 6D seemed a joke compare to Pentax cameras in terms of bulid quality. But now, after more than 60.000 actuations with my 6D and shooting in various conditions with it I'm more confident in the build quality of 6D. For the photographers working in tough environments 6D is not a good option, but for portraits like you see below or for events in poor illuminated locations, it is quite good. All the images you see on my webside were taken with 6D. Works very good and brings me money. And I only paid 200$ more than I paid for K-3 II and with 6D I gained high ISO capabilities, a better flash system, tethered shooting became easier, and also a fast and precise af (despite the fact that it has 11 af points).

6D is not a threat to K1, but K1 was not designed to compete with 6D. Although, 6D Mark II which will be released this Jully will put even more pressure on K1 because it will have:
- 28mp
- 45 af point, all cross type and dual pixel af, 15 af point compatible with f8 lenses and TC's
- the center point sensitive to -4EV, while the other 15 surroundings ones will be sensitive down to -3EV
- articulated screen with touch control
- 4k video
- 6 fps
- built-in GPS, Wi-Fi, NFC
- dual slot card
- and a rummored price around 2.000 $ for the body

Who knows what Nikon is going to release this year?

I had the chance to talk to a few beginner photographers about what are the things they are looking for when they invest in a system and all of them looked for:
- available products in the store. Everywere they went, they saw Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, Fuji. Pentax wasn't on the shelves. It is poorly represented, not only in Romania as far as I can see from your comments
- second hand market (which is almost non existent in my country for Pentax products)
- offers and discounts. Same story... in Romania, Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus have lots of campaigns and discounts. Pentax doesn't.

Adding to all these reasons the fact that:
- when they go out on a photo tour or when they go to an workshop, all they see is Canon and Nikon and some Sony cameras
- af and video capabilities are falling behind the others, according to some of the known reviewers from the internet

and the choice become easier to them. Pentax needs to speed up the release of some primes and also work on some marketing because a camera doesn't sell by itself to new customers (other than Pentax shooters), despite the fact that K1 is very good for the money.






Last edited by Dan Rentea; 05-15-2017 at 05:41 AM.
05-15-2017, 06:56 AM   #28
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,707
Original Poster
No need to get defensive.. I wasn't speaking of the 6d's output, it just felt (literally) cheap to hold. Like an entry level crop body.. and the ergonomics were way off imo. All the modern DSLRs today can output good quality. So no issue with that!

Yes, I never see Pentax users either.. even out of state when I (rarely) travel.. I never see Pentax. We are a tiny island amongst large continents it seems. Hopefully Ricoh increases our island size! With that I think we'd see more OEM and 3rd party options for K mount..
05-15-2017, 08:40 AM   #29
Pentaxian
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,018
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
No need to get defensive.. I wasn't speaking of the 6d's output, it just felt (literally) cheap to hold. Like an entry level crop body.. and the ergonomics were way off imo. All the modern DSLRs today can output good quality. So no issue with that!

Yes, I never see Pentax users either.. even out of state when I (rarely) travel.. I never see Pentax. We are a tiny island amongst large continents it seems. Hopefully Ricoh increases our island size! With that I think we'd see more OEM and 3rd party options for K mount..
I'm not going defensive because I said from the beginning that 6D feels cheap and I would have wanted the build quality from K-3 II on my 6D.

Ergonomically speaking, 6D is better than K-3 II, at least for me. With K-3 II, I needed a grip so that my little finger won't go under the camera. With grip, K-3 II was perfect.
05-15-2017, 08:40 AM   #30
Site Supporter
FilmORbitz's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 144
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
But the K-x was never a $1000 dollar camera purchase.. I had one in 2010 when they were still the current entry K mount DSLR and got it for $500 with the kit lens. I think they were around $600 USD normally. Very very few (if any) people are impulse buying even a $500 dollar DSLR. But they will see it in store.. hold it even.. get used to the brand name. Even if they don't buy there is one more person who knows the brand exists.. and if they liked what they saw even if they don't buy might drop the name to others.

I only discovered Pentax from a coworker (now friend) who was also starting an interest in photography. I was about to buy a Nikon (since my dad had Nikon when I was a kid so I knew Nikon) and the coworker mentioned Pentax. So I ran a google search.. after a few positive reviews (including a rather nice one from DPReview) I decided to order one online.

I really didn't know what I was doing at the time.. I just wanted a DSLR and, from what I saw in the reviews, the entry Pentax offered a lot over competitors for the money.

Had the coworker/friend not dropped the Pentax name.. I wouldn't have known they existed... at all. What's a Pentax? That's common here for those who didn't start in film days.

He only knew of Pentax because he had some of his Grandfather's film gear.. Pentax of course... but he ended up going with a Canon Rebel since he found a great deal on one. Doh.

The point being.. there is little to no brand recognition of Pentax in the US outside of older folks or the adventurous who are familiar with the Pentax legacy. Pentax is seen as a vintage / outdated brand if it is ever seen or thought of at all.

So I don't discount the value of hype and brand image and recognition in today's economy.. it is very important. Pentax (Ricoh) can't just offered nice products and expect people to come to them as a result. Momentum matters.. which is why Canon can pump out subpar cameras at inflated price and people still swarm. Today they are seen as the 'safe' bet in the market too.. so the momentum grows.
I believe we agree.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
allll the cameras, bestbuy, brand, campaign, canon, customers, dealers, dslr, dslrs, film, imo, luck, mirrorless, momentum, nikon, pentax, people, purchase, recognition, store
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sigma 400mm f5.6 won't focus except via manual photolady95 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 28 06-28-2017 11:14 PM
Taping up everything except centre pin - safe? Nass Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 9 05-22-2017 09:33 AM
Cameras cameras cameras Lurch Pentax DSLR Discussion 16 04-14-2013 02:54 AM
SLOW continuous shooting on all modes except auto pict? tensai Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 5 08-30-2011 09:13 PM
Neither GX30 nor any other NX camera except NX10 in this year RedFox Pentax News and Rumors 10 08-19-2009 04:56 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:03 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top