Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-15-2017, 09:09 PM   #31
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 334
Not every product or company actually needs a large marketshare to work. For Ricoh, they probably believe that their profit is maximized with their current strategy, and that seems believable given that Canon and Nikon have the majority of the DSLR market. I wouldn't be surprised if Pentax appeals most to people who are interested in photography more than the average person, who will probably go to a more dedicated camera store anyway, at at least in Canada Pentax is carried by stores like Henry's. Perhaps Ricoh just figures putting that extra effort to get their cameras into a place like Best Buy would be beyond the reasonable limit of diminishing returns.

I think the point is, to actually support any claims like these you need real data about the market, and that's something that Ricoh actually put in the effort to obtain. Of course, they could be wrong about the most efficient path for their product.

05-16-2017, 09:44 AM - 1 Like   #32
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: California
Posts: 610
The best buy's by me are horrible when it comes to cameras in general. They have the sonys, but not really any brand except for maybe a nikon and maybe a canon dslr. With that in mind the pentax brand is foreign to most people. I had a friend asked me what type a camera i use, mentioned pentax and she looked at me funny and said what is a pentax? It followed by another question and asked if it was part of fuji, panasonic, or olympus. I like pentax but it would be nice if they at least some sort of marketing to the younger generation so questions like these dont come up.


05-16-2017, 03:58 PM   #33
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,707
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
The best buy's by me are horrible when it comes to cameras in general. They have the sonys, but not really any brand except for maybe a nikon and maybe a canon dslr. With that in mind the pentax brand is foreign to most people. I had a friend asked me what type a camera i use, mentioned pentax and she looked at me funny and said what is a pentax? It followed by another question and asked if it was part of fuji, panasonic, or olympus. I like pentax but it would be nice if they at least some sort of marketing to the younger generation so questions like these dont come up.
Yep I get odd stares when I either mention or show a Pentax camera to another photographer... as if I stepped off the moon with this strange, unknown camera.
05-16-2017, 04:19 PM   #34
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,707
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by automorphism Quote
Of course, they could be wrong about the most efficient path for their product.
I think this is it really.

Kodak thought they knew best too.. so did Circuit City.. and Radioshack and etc..

The key factor in all of them is the market changed and they were (too) slow to meet that change.. pride and bullheadedness get in the way of the stark reality that what worked for the past 3 decades doesn't necessarily provide the same results today. Plus there had to be some thought of not wanting to spend money to change (through the uncertainties of the change).

Plus I think a company can actually operate TOO conservatively and leave money on the table.. I think Ricoh is doing that now. Highly risk adverse.

I think, in the short term that looks great to shareholders (little to no losses). But, in the long term, you very slowly starve yourself of consumers at a time when the market is beginning to pull away from a diverse offering of companies products and more towards a few. It is rough sailing no matter what camera manufacturer you are today. Doubly so if you're a smaller player.

I have no idea what happens to Pentax and even those paid to know don't either. The market is too volatile at this point. What they do probably 'know' is the next 3-4 or so years what they have planned. Whether that comes to fruition only time will tell.

I still think having your cameras in stores with large foot traffic is one of the easiest forms of promotion you can offer. That means the Wal-marts, Targets, and Best Buys of the world.. big box stores.

05-16-2017, 04:53 PM - 1 Like   #35
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,027
sorry, a bit off-topic. I just came back from Thailand and every camera store big or small I see there, carry many Japanese camera brand but NO PENTAX.
I am just a typical dude with Pentax in japan, but in Thailand I am very unique.
05-16-2017, 08:12 PM - 1 Like   #36
Site Supporter
FilmORbitz's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 144
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
This looks similar to the setup at my local Bestbuy.. I guess it isn't in every one then!
What Best Buy has done is recogize that non-cellphone cameras are more of a niche item. Their answer is the "Camera Experience Shop", featuring a full-line (other than Pentax of course) selection of DSLRs, mirrorless, and the recreational stuff (DJI drones, and various action cam systems). These full-line locations only exist in certain BB stores (only 4 in my state). The other BB locations will struggle on with wasteland camera departments and untrained staff. The CES locations are a great place to discover a camera that fits your needs and budget, and it is guaranteed not to be a Pentax. Way to go, Ricoh !
05-17-2017, 09:48 AM   #37
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 201
QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
The best buy's by me are horrible when it comes to cameras in general. They have the sonys, but not really any brand except for maybe a nikon and maybe a canon dslr. With that in mind the pentax brand is foreign to most people. I had a friend asked me what type a camera i use, mentioned pentax and she looked at me funny and said what is a pentax? It followed by another question and asked if it was part of fuji, panasonic, or olympus. I like pentax but it would be nice if they at least some sort of marketing to the younger generation so questions like these dont come up.
Ha, I had a friend ask if Pentax was some sort of generic brand. I had another (older) say he didn't know Pentax ever made any digital cameras. It really wasn't that long ago that Pentax had a massive presence in the US. It seems like their marketshare plummeted in the late eighties-mid nineties and never recovered. I see quite a few P series cameras with a 35-80s attached on craigslist and camera stores, and even less of the MZ series. In terms of digital cameras, I'll find the odd *ist D with kit lens, but never anything later. Compared to the slim offerings of autofocus cameras, Super Programs, Me Supers, Spotmatics, K1000s, are so prevalent, you can't get away from them. So no one younger than thirty has any awareness of the brand.

My Best Buy has a growing Sony section, along with modest Canon and Nikon sections. It even has a whole shelf dedicated to Keymissions. I think Pentax would have a better bet marketing through smaller camera retailers rather than big-box stores. Our local camera shop carries every single camera brand EXCEPT Pentax. It's miserable. They used to carry only Nikon, Canon, and Leica but have added Olympus, Panasonic, Sony, and Fuji and market those guys pretty hard. It works too, I've been seeing a whole lot more Fujis, Sonys, and Olys around the necks of 20-30 somethings locally in the past few years.
05-17-2017, 10:32 AM   #38
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 4,217
My local BB has an ever-shrinking camera display case. Never had Pentax there. I'm only in the store around once a year, and on the most recent visit it looked like none of the cameras on display had power.

Regarding Pentax marketing in the USA, older friends see my camera and assume it's film. "Pentax is still in business!?" Younger friends have simply never heard of Pentax.

05-17-2017, 02:16 PM   #39
Site Supporter
FilmORbitz's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 144
I've decided to find out who is in charge of "marketing" of Pentax in the U.S., and I am going to send them the link to this thread with an invitation to comment.
With 72,639 members they would be foolish to ignore such a large chunk of their customers. Hopefully they will respond with some insight into their thinking and behavior.
Like most things, you don't get without asking. Wish me luck!
05-17-2017, 03:03 PM   #40
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 4,217
QuoteOriginally posted by FilmORbitz Quote
I've decided to find out who is in charge of "marketing" of Pentax in the U.S., and I am going to send them the link to this thread with an invitation to comment.
With 72,639 members they would be foolish to ignore such a large chunk of their customers. Hopefully they will respond with some insight into their thinking and behavior.
Like most things, you don't get without asking. Wish me luck!
Good luck. We'll still be here when you give up

Most of us have accepted that we can only buy stuff from a very short list of dealers. The current camera environment, under heavy pressure from smartphones, makes it unlikely that Ricoh will invest/waste money on a large marketing campaign.

Pentax USA is here to maintain the status quo. They keep their 3 main dealers supplied with cameras. They also provide support to old customers, and to the few new customers who are lucky enough to discover Pentax on their own.
05-17-2017, 04:18 PM   #41
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: California
Posts: 610
QuoteOriginally posted by FilmORbitz Quote
I've decided to find out who is in charge of "marketing" of Pentax in the U.S., and I am going to send them the link to this thread with an invitation to comment.
With 72,639 members they would be foolish to ignore such a large chunk of their customers. Hopefully they will respond with some insight into their thinking and behavior.
Like most things, you don't get without asking. Wish me luck!

Good luck, you're going to need it.

---------- Post added 05-17-17 at 04:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Good luck. We'll still be here when you give up

Most of us have accepted that we can only buy stuff from a very short list of dealers. The current camera environment, under heavy pressure from smartphones, makes it unlikely that Ricoh will invest/waste money on a large marketing campaign.

Pentax USA is here to maintain the status quo. They keep their 3 main dealers supplied with cameras. They also provide support to old customers, and to the few new customers who are lucky enough to discover Pentax on their own.
yeah, I don't think they need to invest heavily in a market campaign but just a little bit so they don't get forgotten which seems like it is happening. You always hear and see about the other brands, but with pentax you have to go on a quest and eventually look under a rock to even faintly hear a whisper of the name Pentax.
05-27-2017, 12:47 PM   #42
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,707
Original Poster
Another rambling update to the aside of the original post.. I went back this afternoon and tried them out again.

One thing I didn't mention previously was shutter noise.. the D750 (which I was most interested in trying) has a less dampened sound.. it is brighter and more 'harsh' than the K-1. It kind of sounds low-end (cheap) to me and could see it being an issue in a quiet venue, esp if bursting shots. CHHCLACKA CHHCLACKA CHHCLACKA

I've read many reports of an error where the shutter and/or the mirror has issues on them.. that seems to be the main issue if anyone is having one with the D750.. Nikon's service 'solution' is they replace the shutter. Perhaps that part of the camera is just cheaply made? The K-1 isn't exactly silent but it has a thicker, more dampened sound to it.

D610 and the D750, to me, sounded about the same shutter click wise.. I had them literally side by side and was pressing the shutter release button on each back and forth. I think Nikon cheapened out on that aspect.

The D810 sounded a little better.. of course this only matters if you're in a quiet venue or not wanting to scare wildlife and babies.. hearing CLICK-CLACK pierce the silence can be jarring to some.

I think the Canon 5DIV (paired with a 24-105 f/4) is MUCH worse than all of the Nikons in shutter noise.. on par with my old Pentax K-x (which was a 500 dollar body in 2010)! Interestingly, I found the 6d on display quieter and somewhat closer to the Pentax K-1 in sound. I find that interesting since the 6d is an older entry FF body and the 5dIV the enthusiast body at over 3x the price.

I'd also like to revise my comments on the 6d overall.. it feels a lot better in my hand the second time around. And I kind of understand how it sells well now.. despite their lack of dynamic range at low ISO.

I also tried the Olympus mirrorless bodies.. I will say I found the EVF used in the top end of those bodies to be not bad. Not OVF replacement quality.. but better than what I saw on the Sonys (even the top end -- sans A9 which wasn't available). It is still a backlit glowing screen.. OVF is far more natural and a bit more responsive to me.

Basically there is no perfect camera that checks all the boxes for me. Yet Pentax clearly (at least to me) has a seriously competitive product that most people just don't know is an option. If Pentax, Canon, and Nikon could get together and form a super group.. then we'd be in business.

Or Pentax could just market a little.. just a little, Ricoh, if you're reading this.. you're killing me with your lack of brand awareness in the USA.
05-27-2017, 01:56 PM   #43
Site Supporter
FilmORbitz's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 144
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Another rambling update to the aside of the original post.. I went back this afternoon and tried them out again.

One thing I didn't mention previously was shutter noise.. the D750 (which I was most interested in trying) has a less dampened sound.. it is brighter and more 'harsh' than the K-1. It kind of sounds low-end (cheap) to me and could see it being an issue in a quiet venue, esp if bursting shots. CHHCLACKA CHHCLACKA CHHCLACKA

I've read many reports of an error where the shutter and/or the mirror has issues on them.. that seems to be the main issue if anyone is having one with the D750.. Nikon's service 'solution' is they replace the shutter. Perhaps that part of the camera is just cheaply made? The K-1 isn't exactly silent but it has a thicker, more dampened sound to it.

D610 and the D750, to me, sounded about the same shutter click wise.. I had them literally side by side and was pressing the shutter release button on each back and forth. I think Nikon cheapened out on that aspect.

The D810 sounded a little better.. of course this only matters if you're in a quiet venue or not wanting to scare wildlife and babies.. hearing CLICK-CLACK pierce the silence can be jarring to some.

I think the Canon 5DIV (paired with a 24-105 f/4) is MUCH worse than all of the Nikons in shutter noise.. on par with my old Pentax K-x (which was a 500 dollar body in 2010)! Interestingly, I found the 6d on display quieter and somewhat closer to the Pentax K-1 in sound. I find that interesting since the 6d is an older entry FF body and the 5dIV the enthusiast body at over 3x the price.

I'd also like to revise my comments on the 6d overall.. it feels a lot better in my hand the second time around. And I kind of understand how it sells well now.. despite their lack of dynamic range at low ISO.

I also tried the Olympus mirrorless bodies.. I will say I found the EVF used in the top end of those bodies to be not bad. Not OVF replacement quality.. but better than what I saw on the Sonys (even the top end -- sans A9 which wasn't available). It is still a backlit glowing screen.. OVF is far more natural and a bit more responsive to me.

Basically there is no perfect camera that checks all the boxes for me. Yet Pentax clearly (at least to me) has a seriously competitive product that most people just don't know is an option. If Pentax, Canon, and Nikon could get together and form a super group.. then we'd be in business.

Or Pentax could just market a little.. just a little, Ricoh, if you're reading this.. you're killing me with your lack of brand awareness in the USA.
Just a couple thoughts. The guru of sensor evaluation (sorry DxO) seems quite impressed with the Canon 6D's sensor, particularly at low light levels:

Canon 6D Review Clarkvision.com: Camera Review and Sensor Analysis Series

In a separate article he pretty much tags it as the best FF sensor going, although it is a bit dated review. Apparently its most glaring issue is the weak autofocus system. Since the long-awaited 6DmkII seems forever in the future, a brand new grey-market 6D looks pretty tempting at $1050 or so for someone wanting FF on a budget.

Your trip to BB to touch and hear, and the resultant conclusions that come from it, are exactly why Pentax needs to be in places like that. Otherwise, everyone just assumes this Pentax brand must surely be worse than the plastic crappy wonders they are deciding between. The only possible conclusion is they must not be good enough to be in the store. And that is a death sentence.
05-27-2017, 02:29 PM   #44
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 5,408
I'm one of the old Pentaxians....close to 50 years ...in another few months.

Way back I earned a bit of my crust as a photographer, but not for very long. I'm no Eisenstadt or Karsh, although marginally ok, IMHO.

Over the years, my main system has been Pentax, I've not been averse to other makes.

Shopping preferences...I haven't been to a big box store for quite awhile. Always felt I was being hustled a bit, but that's me, probably. Also didn't find the level of quality of goods to my liking for the most part....camera wise anyways. Mostly entry level it seems.

I invariably get my camera equipment at a local camera store. They don't have Pentax in the store anymore, but I order it through them. Support local business or it won't be there has been my philosophy.


I know what I want and know how to get it.

I realize we all start somewhere and that Pentax is missing the boat when it comes to getting some of that marketing jewel, the youth market.

But maybe not. My kids who are in their late 20's, 30 years old range do an awful lot of shopping online. They go online to review what products are available, how good the stuff is....they don't do a lot of driving from store to store...trying it out. They do the great majority of their shopping research and actual shopping through their computer. They don't get newspapers, magazines, watch network and cable TV news show. They get their news online, don't pay for it and watch Netflix and Crave TV. They don't watch the big networks or Cable news....and they're not alone.

So maybe Ricoh is right. Maybe Canikon is wrong pursuing the old ways of paying for optimum marketing area in stores....blitz advertising in traditional media like print and TV. All very expensive and I'm wondering is it as effective as it used to be ?

I think not. Print and TV media are making less and less money as fewer advertisers use them and/or advertisers are buying less advert time in these trad areas. Magazines are dying like flies lately. I've lost two of my subscriptions in the past 6 months. This situation is reflective of print media.

Check out how many newspapers, magazines have bit the bullet lately and also check out how many pages they run, how little (relatively speaking) editorial vs running larger pictures within minimal editorial ...mostly to fill the space. Reason in my opinion, because they can't afford to hire as many journalists as they're not getting nearly as much advertising revenue as they used to. Advertising is king in any media...advertising revenue pays the bills. Period. Subscriptions whether for print or TV media is gravy and subscriptions are mostly of value for their demographics the ad salesman use when trying to sell advertising.

Magazines that used to run 140-150 pages plus, now it's not uncommon to see them running around mid 70's to 96 pages...with story layouts that are picture and graphics heavy....little in the way of words per article. Not too many mags/papers that are running as many 1500-2000 word articles as they used to...lot of it now is thin on print and a lot of that is caption format.

So called newspapers of record...or cable and / or TV networks of record are a pale version of what they used to be in the 1960's to 1990's. Less and less people are reading or watching them...so 'news' channels now use a format of round table discussions with reporters, some 'expert' academic or retired military guy or politicians as participants. It's a cheap way to go vs paying a journalist and accompanying expenses such as cameraman/sound, fixers, salaries, transportation accommodations, protection, etc...where these fast breaking stories are actually taking place. I get a kick out of watching how the commentators are in one news show, then when the hour is up, move to a different studio 50 feet away and have another subject to discuss with another chairing journalist.


It used to be our correspondent in the UK, the Mid East, etc...reporting real fast breaking stories....well check it out....not so much anymore. Because the demographic numbers aren't there as they used to be, advertisers are looking for other non trad ways to get their message out.

So maybe Ricoh isn't wrong....I don't know, but what I do know, is that times are changing and changing rapidly and right now it's unsteady ground for all participants trying to make a marketing go of it.
05-27-2017, 02:30 PM   #45
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,707
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by FilmORbitz Quote
Just a couple thoughts. The guru of sensor evaluation (sorry DxO) seems quite impressed with the Canon 6D's sensor, particularly at low light levels:

Canon 6D Review Clarkvision.com: Camera Review and Sensor Analysis Series

In a separate article he pretty much tags it as the best FF sensor going, although it is a bit dated review. Apparently its most glaring issue is the weak autofocus system. Since the long-awaited 6DmkII seems forever in the future, a brand new grey-market 6D looks pretty tempting at $1050 or so for someone wanting FF on a budget.

Your trip to BB to touch and hear, and the resultant conclusions that come from it, are exactly why Pentax needs to be in places like that. Otherwise, everyone just assumes this Pentax brand must surely be worse than the plastic crappy wonders they are deciding between. The only possible conclusion is they must not be good enough to be in the store. And that is a death sentence.
He measures only 11.4 stops of DR at base ISO for the 6d -- that's atrocious! Not an issue if you are in a venue shooting at ISO 800 or higher... but HUGE issue if you are landscape type shooting at base ISO (and needing to DR).

That's essentially why I haven't seriously considered Canon thus far. Excellent lens lineup, but their sensors are tuned for high ISO use (at the expensive of low ISO DR).

Of course that can be worked around by taking multiple exposures and combining in post.. but with my K-1 I can just take a single shot and get a ton of malleability due to the near 15 stops of DR. It's less work.

I actually will be interested in seeing what Canon does with the 6d mk II. That is rumored to be released as early as July.. if not by September.

The 5d IV has better DR than every other Canon body. So I'm hoping that was the start of correcting that deficit in their sensors. The 6DmkII could be a really nice body... if Canon doesn't hamstring it to keep it from poaching 5d IV sales.

But yes just a single Pentax body on display (say the K-70) amongst the T7i, D5300, and the like would probably be an eye opener to some.. as in.. we're getting hosed by Canon and Nikon on these cameras if Pentax can offer so much for so little.

Last edited by mee; 05-27-2017 at 02:39 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
allll the cameras, bestbuy, brand, campaign, canon, customers, dealers, dslr, dslrs, film, imo, luck, mirrorless, momentum, nikon, pentax, people, purchase, recognition, store
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sigma 400mm f5.6 won't focus except via manual photolady95 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 28 06-28-2017 11:14 PM
Taping up everything except centre pin - safe? Nass Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 9 05-22-2017 09:33 AM
Cameras cameras cameras Lurch Pentax DSLR Discussion 16 04-14-2013 02:54 AM
SLOW continuous shooting on all modes except auto pict? tensai Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 5 08-30-2011 09:13 PM
Neither GX30 nor any other NX camera except NX10 in this year RedFox Pentax News and Rumors 10 08-19-2009 04:56 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:57 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top