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07-21-2017, 12:11 AM - 1 Like   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
?

You may have thought that, but the reports say otherwise, Dan ...
There are mixt reports... I could be wrong. 20 minutes are not enough... We will see in a few months how it handles. I'll have one for testing in 2 weeks so I will have the chance to compare it side by side with my 6D. If the reports are true, then I'll stick with my 6D and with the money I save I will probably buy the ucomming 85mm f1.4L IS lens.

08-09-2017, 07:26 AM   #47
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Canon EOS 6D Mark II Review: Digital Photography Review

"For the same price, Nikon's D750 offers nearly the same resolution, loads more dynamic range and a far more sophisticated autofocus system. Same goes for the Sony a7 II, though that camera is even cheaper. The Pentax K-1 is an incredible value and gives you even better build quality, unique and innovative features like Pixel Shift, and far more resolution. The only thing that makes the EOS 6D II stand out is Dual Pixel AF, which turns out is only of real value in this camera when shooting single shots of slow-moving subjects or HD video.

Let's be clear: The EOS 6D Mark II is, like so many other cameras, capable of outstanding images in the right hands. But even considering all the traditional Canon bonuses like great color, ease of use for video capture and comprehensive lens ecosystem, the 6D II falls too far short for us to recommend it over the competition, and therefore it doesn't merit our highest awards."
08-09-2017, 07:54 AM   #48
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Clearly, if DP Review can't give them a good score, then Canon is Doomed!
08-09-2017, 09:21 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Clearly, if DP Review can't give them a good score, then Canon is Doomed!
Canon started crippling camera way back with the 5DII. That is when I left the system. It has gotten worse and worse with every body. It has obviously made them a lot of money in the process, but I think it has reached the point where competition in the market place will force them to curtail that practice. If Ricoh can fill out the lens line-up and address their AF issues, they can take a big chunk of market share given the value their products offer. Sony is going to take a chunk of market share as a technology leader and service the people who are willing to pay a premium (not value buyers).

08-09-2017, 10:24 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Canon started crippling camera way back with the 5DII. That is when I left the system. It has gotten worse and worse with every body. It has obviously made them a lot of money in the process, but I think it has reached the point where competition in the market place will force them to curtail that practice.
Do you think that Canon made 5D Mark IV worse (crippled) than 5D Mark II? Do you think that Pentax doesn't crippling their cameras? Then why they put USB 2.0 on K1? Why do they use SD memory cards on a 36mp camera? Why do they use an 2012 af system on K1? Why do they have video at the level of an entry level camera from competition?

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
If Ricoh can fill out the lens line-up and address their AF issues, they can take a big chunk of market share given the value their products offer. Sony is going to take a chunk of market share as a technology leader and service the people who are willing to pay a premium (not value buyers).
Canon anounced increased sales in 2017, so I don't think Sony will take a chunck of market share any time soon.

Yes, 6D Mark II seems overpriced. With this I agree.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 08-09-2017 at 11:20 PM.
08-10-2017, 12:15 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Do you think that Pentax doesn't crippling their cameras? Then why they put USB 2.0 on K1? Why do they use SD memory cards on a 36mp camera? Why do they use an 2012 af system on K1? Why do they have video at the level of an entry level camera from competition
Isnt it obvious?....K-1 is Pentax's ENTRY level FF, their next FF will have a few more bells and whistles AND will cost MORE.

When it arrives is a good ? But definitely after Year of the Primes![COLOR="Silver"]

Last edited by surfar; 08-10-2017 at 12:21 AM.
08-10-2017, 12:49 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Do you think that Pentax doesn't crippling their cameras? Then why they put USB 2.0 on K1? Why do they use SD memory cards on a 36mp camera? Why do they use an 2012 af system on K1? Why do they have video at the level of an entry level camera from competition?
I think that it took so long to develop and that's what was available back then (at least this has come from official lips).

Anyway Pentax doesn't intentionally cripple the performance of their cameras, on the contrary they offer the most they can and IQ wise the cameras shine. Those characteristics (USB2, SD cards, AF system, video) are what they had in hands and top of the Pentax line, regardless of where their level is in comparison with the competition. This is not the case with the Canon cameras and you know it.

Anyway, I'm not interested in Canon cameras (no offence, its just me) so I'll leave you to continue your talk.

Have a nice day everybody.

08-10-2017, 01:13 AM - 1 Like   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Do you think that Pentax doesn't crippling their cameras? Then why they put USB 2.0 on K1? Why do they use SD memory cards on a 36mp camera? Why do they use an 2012 af system on K1? Why do they have video at the level of an entry level camera from competition?
Yes, Pentax is not crippling their cameras. To call the K-1 crippled is outrageous - since it's basically a D8x0-level camera with a less competent AF and some Pentax extras, but at 2200 euro.
No, Pentax doesn't have to be inferior from every point of view than Canon

There is a huge difference between crippling, compromising and choice.
Crippling is something you don't see in the K-1.
Compromising, that's unavoidable in any product. You cannot say, "why aren't they using the latest sensor in this entry level priced, but mid-level featured camera?"; yet you're doing it nevertheless (hint: video)
Choice, that would be the SD card which they're using in all their IL cameras, 645Z including. It's amusing that you're consider it as "crippling"... because Canon is using SD in their lower level camera?
08-10-2017, 01:19 AM - 1 Like   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Then why they put USB 2.0 on K1? Why do they use SD memory cards on a 36mp camera? Why do they use an 2012 af system on K1? Why do they have video at the level of an entry level camera from competition?
Because the K-1 was a long time in development, because pentax users don't have CF or QXD cards, because Pentax doesn't have a better AF system, because Pentax is not a video brand (enabling mechanical SR in Video would help though).

usb-2 is not a big deal, you can use a card reader when you need a faster transfer. Very fast cards aren't needed with the slow frame rate of a 36mp sensor. Now they could have spend a lot of money on a more video capable camera with a much better AF-tracking but that would have meant a $4000 camera in order to win back the investment. But that would mean much less sales to Pentaxians. Eventually all those things will be in a successor but Ricoh has to wait for these technologies to become mainstream in order to be able to afford to put them into a camera. Ricoh lacks the punch to be a cutting edge company. They focus on engineering and image processing instead of electronics. Those have to be bought from companies like socionext and Sony, so they have to take what is available. Ricoh isn't crippling but compared to Canonikony they are handicapped by their limited resources.
08-10-2017, 01:31 AM   #55
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This was one of the most frustrating things about dealing with Canon cameras. They would cripple a camera or give you bogus features so as not to hurt the sales of a higher-up camera. However those "missing" features would somehow appear on a lower end camera ?
08-10-2017, 04:35 AM - 1 Like   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Do you think that Canon made 5D Mark IV worse (crippled) than 5D Mark II? Do you think that Pentax doesn't crippling their cameras? Then why they put USB 2.0 on K1? Why do they use SD memory cards on a 36mp camera? Why do they use an 2012 af system on K1? Why do they have video at the level of an entry level camera from competition?



Canon anounced increased sales in 2017, so I don't think Sony will take a chunck of market share any time soon.

Yes, 6D Mark II seems overpriced. With this I agree.
I think it is pretty clear that the K-1 was designed with a certain price point in mind -- roughly 1800 USD. With that price, they had to use an older (but still good) sensor and probably that limited some of the other features on the camera. I wouldn't call it crippling. Crippling is where you deliberately withhold certain features to drive photographers to buy a more expensive camera. Pentax does some mild crippling where they only allow three shot exposure bracketing on lower end cameras, but five shot on upper end. That's just software. But where there are hardware choices to keep price down, that's a little different. I agree with Kunzite, the term I would use there is compromise.

Beyond which, Pentax doesn't have a camera above the K-1 except the 645z and so there is not a particular reason for them to hold something back to get people to move up to a more expensive camera. Clearly if Canon made the 6D II too good, people would just get it and not the 5D IV.
08-10-2017, 03:33 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Isnt it obvious?....K-1 is Pentax's ENTRY level FF, their next FF will have a few more bells and whistles AND will cost MORE.

When it arrives is a good ? But definitely after Year of the Primes!
Which year will that be? Year of the primes, that is... it sure wasn't this year. Next year? If they don't arrive then will we kick the can down the street for another year?

I had such high hopes for this 6d ii to be something far better than what it turned out to be. What a dud. Yet it will still sell like hot cakes. When you're used to mediocre (Canon FF sensors) you don't know how good it could be (Sony FF sensors).
08-10-2017, 05:51 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Which year will that be? Year of the primes, that is
Well, its not this year yet,BUT it could be this "fiscal" year in Japan....which ends March 2018,so they still got time to deliver!
08-10-2017, 08:53 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Do you think that Canon made 5D Mark IV worse (crippled) than 5D Mark II? Do you think that Pentax doesn't crippling their cameras? Then why they put USB 2.0 on K1? Why do they use SD memory cards on a 36mp camera? Why do they use an 2012 af system on K1? Why do they have video at the level of an entry level camera from competition?



Canon anounced increased sales in 2017, so I don't think Sony will take a chunck of market share any time soon.

Yes, 6D Mark II seems overpriced. With this I agree.
Crippling is a reference to higher spec'ed current models not previous models of the same body. Since crippling is relative other current bodies, no I don't think Pentax cripples there cameras. I wish Ricoh would have used USB 3.0, but they would have also improved the rest of the imaging pipeline to be able to move the files. They use SD cards in all of their cameras and again, the entire image processing pipeline is more of a limitation than the SD card.

If you look at all of the other cameras that use the 36MP sensor, none of them have good video. Its a 6+ year old sensor and its slow. To slow to run 4K or even great 1080.

Ricoh doesn't have a higher spec FF body, so there is not other body that Ricoh could protect by crippling the features of the K-1. Did they use some older hardware with some speed limitations in order to hit a price point? Yes. Is that different that what Canon does to differentiate between models? Yes. As the people at Magic Lantern have shown, Canon will turn off features in lower priced models. Like when Magic Lantern unlocked 4K Super 35mm in the 5DIII. Canon was using the same hardware in their 4K video cameras that they were using in the 5DIII, but they turned the feature off in the 5DIII to protect sales of the more expensive dedicated cameras. That is crippling.

Yes, I do think Sony is going to take a chunk of the market. A lot of the 3rd party suppliers think that Sony is going to take a big chunk. Canon is still the top dog and they are going to continue to be for a long time, but that doesn't mean that Sony is not gaining market share.
08-10-2017, 09:19 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Well, its not this year yet,BUT it could be this "fiscal" year in Japan....which ends March 2018,so they still got time to deliver!
haha they will continually be moving the goal posts by redefining the term 'year' and what 'release' mean... by March we will have gone almost 2 years without a new D-FA.
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