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07-03-2017, 12:36 PM   #1
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Canon – the REAL technical and political reasons behind the lack of decent video

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When you crack open a Canon DSLR with Magic Lantern, you will see that the image coming off the sensor is MUCH sharper and more detailed than what Canon ends up delivering to the card in the stock video mode.

So something very odd indeed is going on at Canon HQ and I think as customers we deserve an explanation…

And if not an explanation, then Canon customers deserve a camera we may actually want to buy for video that isn’t $12,000… and is competitive with what Sony and Panasonic are doing for $1000-$3000.



07-03-2017, 01:17 PM   #2
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I left Canon when the 5DII came out. Canon has always crippled its cameras to protect premium sales. They are by far the worst offender that I know of. This is one of the things that keep me using Pentax. For the most part Pentax/Ricoh have a history of delivering the most value for the money and not crippling their cameras.
07-03-2017, 01:37 PM   #3
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The only thing I can think of that Pentax ever crippled in this regard was by hearsay, and that's full analogue TTL on the inbuilt flash for the *istDS and *istDS2 (as compared to the *istD). Supposedly the hardware to allow it is still in there, but the firmware for the second-line models was never (and now probably never will be) written to make use of it.

The removal of full mechanical analogue aperture signalling is of course a perennial bugbear for the K and M lens crowd, but at least that is an acknowledged and built-in (or rather, NOT built in) deficiency across all their DSLRs, rather than a feature which technically remains accessible but is selectively blocked in lesser models. And at the end of the day, having to thumb the Green Button remains a small price to pay for the benefits we get of remaining with the physical K mount.
07-03-2017, 02:22 PM   #4
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AFAIK the reason why they didn't continue supporting analogue TTL flash metering was because it was unreliable. I never owned an *istD so I wasn't able to check this, though.

07-03-2017, 03:50 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
AFAIK the reason why they didn't continue supporting analogue TTL flash metering was because it was unreliable. I never owned an *istD so I wasn't able to check this, though.
That's the part I've never understood. TTL measurements across every different film stock and their various reflectivities was OK, but on a chip with consistent material properties they suddenly have a reliability problem? I don't get it.

I'll buy cost, though, to some extent, and wireless capability, but reliability doesn't add up.

-Eric

---------- Post added 07-03-17 at 04:08 PM ----------[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added 07-03-17 at 04:15 PM ----------

Last edited by TwoUptons; 07-03-2017 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Somehow got two posts in one. Didn't know you could do that...
07-03-2017, 04:18 PM   #6
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I'm only reporting what I've read, but not experienced directly
Digital sensors have much different reflection characteristics, so maybe that's the answer. I just checked the *istD manual, they say the "appropriate sensitivity" for TTL flash is between ISO 200 and ISO 800 (200-3200 i.e. full range for P-TTL).
Then, P-TTL allows for HSS and wireless. Cost can also be a reason, as TTL requires a separate OTS (off the sensor) metering system.
07-03-2017, 07:40 PM   #7
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Funny , the talk turn about Pentax instead of Canon!!!
07-03-2017, 09:56 PM   #8
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That is the Canon model of segmentation, condition for profitability is to make the products in a way to prevent cannibalization between products, otherwise the model falls apart. That's why poor Pentax have the freedom to price K1 aggressively, Canon can't do this as this would completely mess up their segmentation strategy. At Canon, you can also have the fully featured product but you have to pay for it. As long as Canon see that their market share is stable (or rising... in the recent years), they have no reason to give anything away for free to their customers.


Last edited by biz-engineer; 07-03-2017 at 10:02 PM.
07-04-2017, 12:22 AM   #9
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Thank you for the link to that website. It seems that some PF members aren't the only ones dark on DPReview.
07-04-2017, 03:56 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
TTL measurements across every different film stock and their various reflectivities was OK, but on a chip with consistent material properties they suddenly have a reliability problem? I don't get it.
Neither do I, because my *istDS was performing marvellously with everything from Takumars to DA Limiteds until the TTL control module in.... my AF280T flash died.

It still works great with the AF080C ringflash, but that greatly restricts the range of pictures I can take and the distances at which I can take them.

Anyway, back to Canon...
07-04-2017, 05:46 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote

Anyway, back to Canon...
I had some really pithy Canon stuff in the rest of the post, but it got goobered up with my inability to post like a sensible person with my phone...

But I was basically flabbergasted with the absence of 4K from the 6D Mk. II.

The 'political' reason makes sense, and maybe I need to look in the 6D thread, but it doesn't really look like a ground-breaking camera...

-Eric
07-05-2017, 04:49 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
The 'political' reason makes sense, and maybe I need to look in the 6D thread, but it doesn't really look like a ground-breaking camera...

-Eric
When a lot of Canon shooters were asked why don't they swich to Sony/Nikon/Fuji, the general conclusion was that Canon doesn't have cameras with the best spec-wise, it’s not the best when it comes to video codecs and it’s certainly not the best when it comes to ground-breaking innovation. But it’s the overall best system at getting the job done. They have reliable cameras/lenses and that's why a lot of pro shooters tend to remain in Canon boat. A lot of them through started to adopt a second system for video and for travel.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 07-05-2017 at 05:34 AM.
07-05-2017, 06:11 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
When a lot of Canon shooters were asked why don't they swich to Sony/Nikon/Fuji, the general conclusion was that Canon doesn't have cameras with the best spec-wise, it’s not the best when it comes to video codecs and it’s certainly not the best when it comes to ground-breaking innovation. But it’s the overall best system at getting the job done. They have reliable cameras/lenses and that's why a lot of pro shooters tend to remain in Canon boat. A lot of them through started to adopt a second system for video and for travel.
Sounds a lot like the reasons for Pentax shooters.

As a computer analogy, Canon is Windows, Nikon is Mac, and Pentax is Linux :P
07-05-2017, 07:23 AM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by timw4mail Quote
Sounds a lot like the reasons for Pentax shooters.

As a computer analogy, Canon is Windows, Nikon is Mac, and Pentax is Linux :P
Ah! That could very well be the reason why I shoot with Pentax. Hahaha! Been using Linux for years, but also use Windows. I don't have a camera equivalent of Windows, though. Linux does have it's limitations & quirks at times, but I deal with them. I guess the same goes for Pentax.
07-05-2017, 09:20 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
The only thing I can think of that Pentax ever crippled in this regard was by hearsay, and that's full analogue TTL on the inbuilt flash for the *istDS and *istDS2 (as compared to the *istD). Supposedly the hardware to allow it is still in there, but the firmware for the second-line models was never (and now probably never will be) written to make use of it.

The removal of full mechanical analogue aperture signalling is of course a perennial bugbear for the K and M lens crowd, but at least that is an acknowledged and built-in (or rather, NOT built in) deficiency across all their DSLRs, rather than a feature which technically remains accessible but is selectively blocked in lesser models. And at the end of the day, having to thumb the Green Button remains a small price to pay for the benefits we get of remaining with the physical K mount.
I'm surprised no one's yet mentioned the lack of mechanical stabilization on video since the K-5 line. But overall, yes, the general lack of this sort of crippling was one thing that attracted me to Pentax in the first place.
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