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08-24-2017, 08:16 PM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
what other camera has a 45.7 MP FF sensor in it?
None yet, i suspect this one that Nikon used is one that Sony tested for the A7r(3) but didnt use.

08-24-2017, 08:41 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
But what other camera has a 45.7 MP FF sensor in it?
The D800 was the only 36MP FF (with a Sony IMX-094 chip) in town for a little while too ...
08-24-2017, 09:21 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
The D800 was the only 36MP FF (with a Sony IMX-094 chip) in town for a little while too ...
Oh, I was under the impression you were saying Pentax tweaked the Sony sensor that Nikon first used in the same way Nikon tweaked this sensor.. but this sensor is brand new.
08-24-2017, 09:30 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I don't think Nikon can hit the D750 price point with an in-house sensor design. They need a high volume low cost sensor like the current 24MP or 36MP sensor. It wouldn't surprise me to see the D5 sensor in the D750 replacement. A lot of wedding photographers would love to see the D5 sensor in a D750 replacement and that would make sense for Nikon.
A downgrade in resolution? That would be interesting. I would strongly dislike that as I think a little more res is better there not less. But they did the same thing in the D7500 so possibly.

That said, if they give the D750 replacement the D5 sensor and the D5 AF system the only things different are buffer and burst rate and max shutter speed. But even if it hits 7 or 8 fps and holds 30-40 frames it is going to essentially be a 'poor' mans D5. Doesn't that eat into D5 sales more along with D850 doing the same? How many people need 1/6000s or 1/8000s shutter speed?

Hmmm..What I'm trying to get at is, Nikon has to walk a fine line between tiers.. especially with pricing as it is. D5 is so expensive compared to the D750 to the point I'm guessing many would just buy a D750 replacement than a D5 if it is deemed 'close enough.'

But price wise if the D610 gets a successor along with the D750 (and the two aren't merged) then there would be enough cameras getting that new sensor to make it make sense financially for Nikon.

08-25-2017, 01:25 AM   #170
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just in case it's not been mentioned, it's 3,499 in the UK
08-25-2017, 02:26 AM   #171
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I think I'd jaded over all the camera improvements over the years that this D850 does not really make me sit up and take notice much.

Its unlike the earlier years 2008? (thereabouts) when cameras kept improving significantly ever 2-3yrs. (esp the sensor).

Things have reached saturation point imo.
A camera like the K1 (or a D610, 6D, A7 and their higher end versions) is more than enough camera for most users.
More MP does not add much to the table anymore, neither does the high ISO and slight DR improvements.
08-25-2017, 02:40 AM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
I think I'd jaded over all the camera improvements over the years that this D850 does not really make me sit up and take notice much.

Its unlike the earlier years 2008? (thereabouts) when cameras kept improving significantly ever 2-3yrs. (esp the sensor).

Things have reached saturation point imo.
A camera like the K1 (or a D610, 6D, A7 and their higher end versions) is more than enough camera for most users.
More MP does not add much to the table anymore, neither does the high ISO and slight DR improvements.
As I shoot, the K-1 is about perfect for me. It would be nice if the tracking auto focus was a little better, but I don't use tracking AF that much. It would be nice if the buffer was a little deeper and the frame rate a little higher. But the images that it produces are just really high quality.

I'm sure the D850 will sell well -- if nothing else because it has been so long since the D810 came out, but it does feel like we've reached the point of diminishing returns. Camera companies are left giving us slight improvements in specifications over current gear.

---------- Post added 08-25-17 at 05:43 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Oh, I was under the impression you were saying Pentax tweaked the Sony sensor that Nikon first used in the same way Nikon tweaked this sensor.. but this sensor is brand new.
I don't think Nikon owns a sensor fab, so they have to have someone else (Sony/Toshiba/whoever) make their sensor. I think in the past they have taken existing sensors and tweaked them to their own specifications. This may be a new sensor from Sony, but if it is then some iteration of it could end up Sony and Pentax cameras in the future.

08-25-2017, 04:16 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
I think I'd jaded over all the camera improvements over the years that this D850 does not really make me sit up and take notice much.

Its unlike the earlier years 2008? (thereabouts) when cameras kept improving significantly ever 2-3yrs. (esp the sensor).

Things have reached saturation point imo.
A camera like the K1 (or a D610, 6D, A7 and their higher end versions) is more than enough camera for most users.
More MP does not add much to the table anymore, neither does the high ISO and slight DR improvements.

The battle is now fought in operating speed and level of AF automation. IQ has even suffered a little because of a trade of with read out speed. Improvements in IQ are only attained in higher ISO's because of the use of embedded noise reduction, but DR is suffering from higher read-out speeds especially in camera's designed to have High burst rates.
08-25-2017, 04:45 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
A camera like the K1 (or a D610, 6D, A7 and their higher end versions) is more than enough camera for most users.
100% agree. My one and only reason for upgrading from 6D to 5D Mark IV is this bird, the mighty Kingfisher. It's small like a sparrow and it's super crazy fast. I had to deal with a lot of small birds in flight and none of them was so difficult to catch it in flight like this one. I don't need 7D Mark II because for the below image I needed ISO 4000 and 7D Mark II can't handle very good at high ISO. I drove over 1500 km this year only to photograph this bird. Although this bird is quite common in our country, it's hard to photograph because it has a vast territory, it doesn't accept intruders on its territory and also because it's hiding behind branches. I finally found one kingfisher in a good spot (for like 20 seconds) a week ago, on a boat trip, but with my 6D was almost impossible to catch it in flight. I have a few non artistic images with this bird in flight, but in order to photograph it the way I want, I know I need the 7fps and the af of 5D Mark IV.

But I have to admit, for all the other subjects I had to photograph, my 6D served me more than well.

08-25-2017, 04:47 AM   #175
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I think we're also starting to see useful widgets being added. Pixel shift, astro tracer, focus bracketing and stacking. Not features that necessarily have widespread appeal, but ones that can make a difference where they apply.

I'm falling for the in-camera focus bracketing, it looks like the D850 doesn't have an in camera stack like Olympus, but bracketing is all I've been wishing for for years. Here's a review of Olympus' implementation, the in camera stacking looks limited, but the bracketing looks excellent - Focus Stacking and Bracketing. The examples from the article are exactly the use I have in mind, fungus, where you often have the camera wedged in small places on often spongy ground and a rail becomes cumbersome. Here's hoping the next generation of Pentaxes can include some type of focus bracketing.
08-25-2017, 05:03 AM - 1 Like   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
I think we're also starting to see useful widgets being added. Pixel shift, astro tracer, focus bracketing and stacking. Not features that necessarily have widespread appeal, but ones that can make a difference where they apply.

I'm falling for the in-camera focus bracketing, it looks like the D850 doesn't have an in camera stack like Olympus, but bracketing is all I've been wishing for for years. Here's a review of Olympus' implementation, the in camera stacking looks limited, but the bracketing looks excellent - Focus Stacking and Bracketing. The examples from the article are exactly the use I have in mind, fungus, where you often have the camera wedged in small places on often spongy ground and a rail becomes cumbersome. Here's hoping the next generation of Pentaxes can include some type of focus bracketing.
Here is another review of Olympus E-M1 Mark II written by the former Nikon ambasador in our country, one of the best wildlife photographers from Romania. He also talk in his review about focus stacking. It's quite interesting his review and he presented quite nice some advantages of this little camera.

Olympus OM D E-M 1 Mk II review - or how can you win, when everyone else thinks that you have lost…
08-25-2017, 05:40 AM   #177
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One thing I wish I had in k-1 is the compression choices they have in d850. I don't always need 36mp files, they ate a lot of my hard drive already, if I could reduce the resolution to say 12-16mp that'd be ideal for travel. Is that possible via firmware, or it has to be done on a hardware level?
08-25-2017, 06:18 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think Nikon owns a sensor fab, so they have to have someone else (Sony/Toshiba/whoever) make their sensor. I think in the past they have taken existing sensors and tweaked them to their own specifications. This may be a new sensor from Sony, but if it is then some iteration of it could end up Sony and Pentax cameras in the future.


I believe you are correct in that Sony or another produces the actual sensor, but Nikon is claiming it is their design. Perhaps that simply means Nikon went to Sony and essentially said we want a sensor with X resolution Y DR and Z ISO performance. Or maybe it means Nikon has enough EE experience in house to actually design the sensor, and then give the plans to a Sony or other Fab and they generate sensors based on those plans.


Either way it appears that this is a brand new sensor in the Nikon D850 and not a tweak of an existing sensor.


I think we probably are more likely to see the sensor from the A7III in a K-1 successor in years to come.... the bigger question is will the A7III reuse this 'Nikon' sensor or will they have something different? That is, the sensor in the D850 is it a special design for Nikon use only? Time will tell... from the words of Nikon, I get the impression the A7III will have their own sensor and this sensor is a one-off for Nikon use only.
08-25-2017, 06:30 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
One thing I wish I had in k-1 is the compression choices they have in d850. I don't always need 36mp files, they ate a lot of my hard drive already, if I could reduce the resolution to say 12-16mp that'd be ideal for travel. Is that possible via firmware, or it has to be done on a hardware level?


I'm surprised, at the very least, we don't have a 1.2x crop mode as seen in the D810. That would net around a 25 MP image. It would probably also help a number of DA lenses that almost cover the FF circle but not quite.


Also the D810 has a 9MP RAW mode, but I think it isn't a full true RAW file from the little I've read of it.

Last edited by mee; 08-25-2017 at 06:38 AM.
08-25-2017, 06:48 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I'm surprised, at the very least, we don't have a 1.2x crop mode as seen in the D810. That would net around a 25 MP image. It would probably also help a number of DA lenses that almost cover the FF circle but not quite.


Also the D810 has a 9MP RAW mode, but I think it isn't a full true RAW file from the little I've read of it.
Have I misunderstood? I thought d850 actually downsamples 45mp to a lower mp, while keeping ff frame?
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