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09-04-2017, 01:38 AM   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Essentially it is a focus bracketing feature. You still have to stack the images using external software. So it is a time saving feature.
A different photo stacking
A Practical Guide to Creating Superresolution Photos with Photoshop

---------- Post added 09-04-2017 at 01:41 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
The G2 versions of the Tamron lenses looks pretty well covered in terms of weather sealing. It may not be at the level of Pentax lenses, but I'm sure it can handle just fine in most common shooting conditions. It's not like we shoot 99% of our time in storms. And I would rather spend 50$ or 60$ on a good rain cover than risk damaging a 4.000$ combo, since neither Nikon, Pentax, Sony, Canon, Olympus will not cover the water damage on warranty.
I got to play with this lens, Tamron has done something right with this lens

09-04-2017, 02:00 AM   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
A different photo stacking A Practical Guide to Creating Superresolution Photos with Photoshop
It's not for super resolution: Nikon D850: What we hoped for ? and what we got: Digital Photography Review but for macro focus stacking.
09-04-2017, 03:04 AM - 1 Like   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Ok, that looks reasonable...i knew there was some WR on the high end Tamrons. Thanks for that illustration.
One of many examples of why a fight to the death model of competition would be bad for photographers - all the camera companies pick up on each others' good ideas - fewer players means fewer good ideas.
09-04-2017, 03:16 AM   #214
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Unfortunately I know internal focus shifting will not be offered as a firmware upgrade to the D500 to encourage people like me to buy the D850. If it works well to me this capability is compelling.
QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
It's not for super resolution: Nikon D850: What we hoped for ? and what we got: Digital Photography Review but for macro focus stacking.


09-04-2017, 03:27 AM   #215
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Yes, K1 is the cheapest DSLR with a very capable sensor and with weather sealing. But how it will compare to Nikon D850 with Tamron lenses? A comparation should be interesting because Nikon D850 with:
- Tamron 15-30mm f2.8
- Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 G2 (the new model)
- Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 G2 (the new model)

costs 8910$ in my country, while Pentax K1 with equivalent lenses costs 8450$. D850 on paper looks excelent and has also a complete system behind it. In my opinion, Pentax needs to release as fast as possible a few lenses because K1's popularity it's starting to be less visible than it was 6-9 months ago.
The more things are changing, the more they stay the same.
This comparison of yours... you could always make up a scenario in which some Nikon kit would not be much more expensive than a "similar" Pentax kit. Make it a D800 instead of a D800E; use third party lenses; go for discounts, gray market, even for second hand equipment. I'm not sure how many people are buying such kits in one go, and the Tamron 70-200 is not exactly comparable to the Pentax D FA*.
The D850 doesn't really change anything. Pentax will compete from the same position as one year ago.

As for those lenses... you have an opinion, but I want to buy at least one or two of the lenses on the roadmap. I hope we'll have some very positive news at CP+... otherwise, hmm... should I try the Samyang ultra-wide?
09-04-2017, 04:31 AM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The more things are changing, the more they stay the same.
This comparison of yours... you could always make up a scenario in which some Nikon kit would not be much more expensive than a "similar" Pentax kit. Make it a D800 instead of a D800E; use third party lenses; go for discounts, gray market, even for second hand equipment. I'm not sure how many people are buying such kits in one go, and the Tamron 70-200 is not exactly comparable to the Pentax D FA*.
The D850 doesn't really change anything. Pentax will compete from the same position as one year ago.

As for those lenses... you have an opinion, but I want to buy at least one or two of the lenses on the roadmap. I hope we'll have some very positive news at CP+... otherwise, hmm... should I try the Samyang ultra-wide?
I know more than 20 photographers who shoot professionaly with 5D Mark III, 5D Mark IV, D750, D810 and they use Tamron or Sigma lenses. And they ask a price above the avarage price for their services. Sigma Art lenses are excelent in terms of IQ and the focus is decent if you find a good copy. The new generation of Tamron lenses are also very good.

Pentax is not competing from the same position as one year ago because K1 is not so popular as it was a year ago and because the available lenses are the same as a year ago. People who invest minimum 4000$ in a system are usually looking for this kind of details, except the ones with a lot of money and no skills but with the desire to have the latest equipment available on the market (and those guys will not look at Pentax anyway). Adding the performance of the D850 and the decision is not so favorable to Pentax, even if Tamron 70-200mm is not comparable to Pentax 70-200mm.
09-04-2017, 05:00 AM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I know more than 20 photographers who shoot professionaly with 5D Mark III, 5D Mark IV, D750, D810 and they use Tamron or Sigma lenses. And they ask a price above the avarage price for their services. Sigma Art lenses are excelent in terms of IQ and the focus is decent if you find a good copy. The new generation of Tamron lenses are also very good.

Pentax is not competing from the same position as one year ago because K1 is not so popular as it was a year ago and because the available lenses are the same as a year ago. People who invest minimum 4000$ in a system are usually looking for this kind of details, except the ones with a lot of money and no skills but with the desire to have the latest equipment available on the market (and those guys will not look at Pentax anyway). Adding the performance of the D850 and the decision is not so favorable to Pentax, even if Tamron 70-200mm is not comparable to Pentax 70-200mm.
Pentax seem to be doing OK doing what they do. It looks to me as if the main focus of Pentax DSLRs is servicing their existing base of users by producing quality equipment that's predicated on slower, quieter and mostly non-professional uses as befits what one suspects to be a rather ageing and conservative user profile, at least in Japan where they sell the bulk of their output. By and large, these are customers who are already heavily invested in the brand and its legacy lenses and who have the funds to buy items like the K1. The ambitions here are limited but likely pretty realistic. Eventually the show will run out of road as DSLRs wind down and the users become really very old, but that's a worry for another day. Nikon and Canon aren't in this position at all. They are market leaders and depend on camera gear for a big slice of their revenue, unlike Ricoh for whom Pentax is a tiny contributor to revenue. Canon and Nikon cannot afford not to compete with constantly evolving new stuff and big boom boom claims about everything

The price of Pentax bodies is often a notch or two below the going rate for the similar offerings from Canon and Nikon, perhaps as befits something which isn't really intended for heavy-duty professional use (though it can be used for that, of course, and often is). All the talk about Pentax DSLRs and "pros" seems to me to be marketing blather or optimistic wishing from brand ambassadors, and in any case alluding to "pros" is the time and tested method for selling to enthusiasts and hobbyists anyway. The idea that Pentax is competing for the pros at this level is most probably an illusion. There's nothing wrong with what Pentax are doing - servicing their traditional enthusiast base - but it can seem strange if people then try to force the brand into a role for which is is not really intended.

Currently, the best example of what Pentax do and where they are coming from isn't the K1. It is the KP. Imho.

09-04-2017, 05:24 AM   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Pentax seem to be doing OK doing what they do.
That's good. Pentax K1 is aimed primarily to Pentaxians. But the Pentaxians who are not into landscapes wants 2 things as I realised by reading the comments from the forum's threads:
- better af
- more lenses

It could take another year until Pentax is going to release new lenses and I think at least 2 years until we will see a new full frame with better af. There are a lot of photographers who shoot also with 2 systems, a mirrorless being the second system. And mirrorless market is getting stronger and stronger and they benefit also from third party support (Sigma, Tamron, Godox, etc.). The market is going to be tougher and if Pentax is not acting fast in releasing new lenses (even a second full frame camera), then it's going to be harder for Ricoh to keep Pentaxians loyal.
09-04-2017, 06:47 AM   #219
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I know more than 20 photographers who shoot professionaly with 5D Mark III, 5D Mark IV, D750, D810 and they use Tamron or Sigma lenses. And they ask a price above the avarage price for their services. Sigma Art lenses are excelent in terms of IQ and the focus is decent if you find a good copy. The new generation of Tamron lenses are also very good.
As Shania Twain says in a song, "that doesn't impress me much". And it has little to do with my point, anyway.

QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Pentax is not competing from the same position as one year ago
Right; they don't compete from the same position. Because the K-1 user base is steadily growing.

The problem is, it makes no sense to complain, over and over again, that Pentax barely has new products this year. It won't speed up new products introductions. It won't make waiting any easier. And if the point is, "Canon/Nikon/mirrorless is better"... well, I had enough of that.
It's simple: you can, or you can't wait. Pentax is a good choice for you, or it isn't.
The D850 doesn't change much.
09-04-2017, 07:21 AM - 1 Like   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
That's good. Pentax K1 is aimed primarily to Pentaxians. But the Pentaxians who are not into landscapes wants 2 things as I realised by reading the comments from the forum's threads:
- better af
- more lenses

It could take another year until Pentax is going to release new lenses and I think at least 2 years until we will see a new full frame with better af. There are a lot of photographers who shoot also with 2 systems, a mirrorless being the second system. And mirrorless market is getting stronger and stronger and they benefit also from third party support (Sigma, Tamron, Godox, etc.). The market is going to be tougher and if Pentax is not acting fast in releasing new lenses (even a second full frame camera), then it's going to be harder for Ricoh to keep Pentaxians loyal.
Pentax is doing OK within the limited aims it has set, imho. We have to assume Ricoh are well aware of the risks of losing users because of issues over AF and lens selection. Neither is new; both have been points of contention for years by now. Perhaps Ricoh's own data tells them that they aren't losing many core users even if a few of them are unhappy (most won't be) - these are folks heavily invested in Pentax and for whom jumping ship would be prohibitively expensive. Or, perhaps Ricoh don't mind too much anyway. Allowing Pentax to gently run down and fade away over the next few years is a less costly option than investing $$$ in technology which won't ever secure a return because Pentax is simply too small a brand for it. Or ... or ... .We have to remember how small Pentax is, especially outside Japan. In the end, this is very likely all about what sells and how in Japan.

It's good that people do say what they like and what they don't like about the brand's current performance. However, to me, someone who is complaining about Pentax's AF and lens selection relative to Canon or Nikon is really howling at the moon. The fact is, they've bought the wrong brand if that's what they want and the only answers are to accept the situation or move on. Pentax does some things very well, but they've never tried to be Nikon or Canon.
09-04-2017, 07:55 AM   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
It's good that people do say what they like and what they don't like about the brand's current performance. However, to me, someone who is complaining about Pentax's AF and lens selection relative to Canon or Nikon is really howling at the moon.
The problem is not Canon and Nikon, at least not for the moment. The "problems" are:

- mirrorless is getting stronger. Look how quickly they move in releasing lenses and bodies. Look how quickly third party manufacturers are starting to support mirrorless cameras. Ricoh will probably lose more photographers to mirrorless than they will lose to Canon/Nikon. And if the rummors are true and Canon and Nikon will come up with mirrorless cameras in 2018... even more pressure will be on Ricoh. And not from Canon/Nikon users, but from Pentax users.

- new lenses. Maybe for the moment Pentax new lenses (15-30mm, 24-70mm, 70-200mm and 150-450mm) are better than the ones from Sigma/Tamron. But Sigma and Tamron will replace the curent models with newer ones in 2-3 years and I don't think Pentax has the strenghts to replace these lenses in the next 5-7 years. Will Pentax lenses be better than Sigma/Tamron lenses, version 3 or 4?

Let's hope Ricoh is strong enough and keep its market share in the upcoming 2-3 years despite the very slow progress in terms of releasing new lenses. I'm more concerned for Ricoh not necessarily because of Canon or Nikon, but because of the mirrorless trend.
09-04-2017, 08:17 AM   #222
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The problem is that you're looking for problems, you're bound to find some.
But finding problems is not our "job" - our "job" is to find the system suited to our needs, and happily use it.

There's a thread titled "For each Pentaxian buying K-1 another Nikon/Canon shooter jumped ship to Pentax", on the Pentax News and Rumors section. Who could've guessed? Guessing is remarkably unreliable, and this is what I'm seeing here.

And by the way, Tamron's new 24-70 G2 has the same optics as the previous version, while Sigma barely launched their new 24-70. There's also a new 100-400 Sigma, three 150-600 (2 Sigmas, 1 Tamron) launched in 2014... I don't expect replacements soon.
09-04-2017, 08:35 AM   #223
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The biggest thing to me is that camera companies need to change. Do not release a new camera because it is time per your schedule (every 18 months for APS-C, every 3 years for full frame). Release a camera because you have real improvements over old gear that will make a difference in real world images. For me personally, that means more than a boost in megapixels or frame rates. But maybe that's what we've come down to at this point.

If Pentax released a K1 tomorrow with 7 fps and 45 megapixels, but everything else about the same, it wouldn't interest me at all.
Exactly... my K-3 dressed all the issues I had with the K-5 and remains my sports wildlife camera. The K-1 has become my landscape camera, but IMHO it's overkill. I actually like it more because it's just a really nice camera to sue than for the boost in MP or AF of even the increase in Dynamic Range and high ISO performance which I take advantage of less then 25% of the time.

For me, Pentax could stop right now, and just make ƒ4 and variable aperture lenses for a while. I'm not interested in bigger files. That will just slow my computer down. I'm not interested in faster FPS, that would just be more images to process for no noticeable advantage. But then I spend a lot of the time out in the field shooting. To a certain extent, I suspect those who shoot the least are those who think better technical specs on a camera will make them better photographers. You have to really know your camera to know what you might want in your next one. But I'm sure camera companies make a lot more money from casual users.

If you aren't maxing out your current camera in some regard, you don't even know what you need. The average consumer never maxes out what they have, yet is always buying the latest greatest "better camera" hoping that will make a difference.

In a way, it's the hopers and dreamers believing that all they need is a few improvements in the gear to be great photographers that keep the industry going.
09-04-2017, 09:08 AM   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
For me, Pentax could stop right now, and just make ƒ4 and variable aperture lenses for a while.
Financially speaking , with 5% market share it might be that the only way to make money is to be a part time player in the camera business, with employees being assigned to other than camera or lens design tasks for a couple years before they design a new camera. The problem with that is if you stop activities for awhile, you lose experience and skills , and access to market, and when you come back, the seat is taken by someone else. So, if we don't hear much about anything from Ricoh that's keeping the contact with the market for Pentax products, that's petty much packed for them.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 09-04-2017 at 09:28 AM.
09-04-2017, 09:13 AM   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The problem is that you're looking for problems, you're bound to find some.
The problem is that you have to shoot with cameras from other systems in order to have valid points when you defend Pentax on every thread. Look at Normhead above. He wants lenses, f4 lenses to be more precise. And he is a Pentaxian. So you see, Pentax needs lenses and fast.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
... our "job" is to find the system suited to our needs, and happily use it.
Then what are you doing on a thread regarding Nikon? Even if we're happily shooting with our systems it doesn't mean that we can't speak or compare our systems with other systems.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And by the way, Tamron's new 24-70 G2 has the same optics as the previous version, while Sigma barely launched their new 24-70. There's also a new 100-400 Sigma, three 150-600 (2 Sigmas, 1 Tamron) launched in 2014... I don't expect replacements soon.
And by the way, Tamron 24-70mm G2 is faster to focus and it's better build than the previous version. But you don't know that because you don't shoot with other systems. You read specs. I know what I'm talking because I wanted to buy Tamron 24-70mm and I've rented both versions for a few days.

And by the way, there are 2 Tamron 150-600mm versions, G2 being the last one released.
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