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07-25-2017, 10:41 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Yes they've had their issues.. some rather serious. But I think it was actually positive to admit to them. And, not only that, to repair at no additional cost many of those issues.

.
Even when the camera is out of warranty

---------- Post added 07-25-2017 at 10:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
The D850 could very well be an entirely new sensor from Sony... or a scaled up version of the D500 sensor. I'm expecting closer to 50 MP.
Or a custom built one to Nikon specifications( I have a feeling that he D500- D7500 is using a sony sensor built to their specifications) or use their own design

---------- Post added 07-25-2017 at 10:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
of course, it should have the D5 AF system
This would make me consider updating to the D850

If they can squeeze out the base iso of the D850 to 50 or below then I would take a serious look at it


Last edited by Ian Stuart Forsyth; 07-25-2017 at 10:50 PM.
07-26-2017, 12:05 AM   #32
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Oh boy, they are so far behind not only with quality control, value and features...

Nikontendo now offers new insights into their new strategy to try to catch up with Canon in a couple of years with the official 100th anniversary video:


Good to know they focus their resources on these important videos that make buyers happy.

I guess that's the preemptive excuse for a D850 which has no feature advantages worth mentioning other than the lame minimum for spec sheet geeks already invested too deep into the system and too scared to leave the sinking ship ("new autofocus", "more megapixels", "more framerate").

The minimum to expect from a D850 is dual pixel autofocus much faster than Canons, a strong IBIS implementation with 2 stops more than Pentax can muster and a minimum of 1,5 stops achievement in dynamic range at ISO 100 or 200, a good GPS on board together with a full featured internal flash and a really hybrid viewfinder. Price at launch not higher than $2400. Everything else would be lame.
07-26-2017, 12:43 AM   #33
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Was that shot with a Sony?
07-26-2017, 03:53 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I was trying to make you feel better about your buy. This new Nikon body will be in a totally different price bracket.

I've been know to pick losing horses... I owned a couple Pontiacs and then they folded, I was a big supporter of an audio production software, and they discontinued the product, I have enjoyed Pentax and they have been in and out for awhile... I've been a vocal supporter of Sigma K mount lenses, and they've been retracting from K mount, I've been eyeballing the Nikon DSLR system...

You can practice indoor shooting.. portraits? Macro? Pet photos? I think that was one of the first things I did with my K-1, took photos of a cat. Of course.

The D850 could very well be an entirely new sensor from Sony... or a scaled up version of the D500 sensor. I'm expecting closer to 50 MP. And, of course, it should have the D5 AF system... just with a smaller buffer. But they'll really have to impress if they're going to get people to give up their D810 bodies (and pony up the 3+ thousand dollars cost of admission).

The K-1 and the D810 are already so good..
About 12 years ago when I went digital, I though long and hard about Pentax before buying. Good, bad or ugly - I decided that Pentax was the choice and there really is no choice in changing. My outlook still has not changed - or I would not have gone with the K1. I was really intent on staying with the crop line of sensors, but shooting at night and the Milky Way landscapes has pushed me to the full frame. Now all I need to do is pick up a 15-30 and I am done. Just stick a fork in me.

I was just lamenting that every time I make a major purchase - new options quickly arrive after (not before). The 850 is not really an option though. It's only going to be 42MP - 36 is more than sufficient. Nikon is only going to go with Sony and Sony is going to use any new sensor themselves, first before making it available for anyone else (other than medium format). I don't need the fast tracking AF - what Pentax has is more than sufficient. I am happy - well, the weather could clear up so I could go try it out on the Milky Way, but we are in the Monsoon season here - so clouds, rain and humidity are the order of the day.



07-26-2017, 04:13 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
we are in the Monsoon season here - so clouds, rain and humidity are the order of the day.
good job you've got a Pentax
07-26-2017, 05:16 AM   #36
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A teaser image. They modernized the design a bit (i lifted shadows):
07-26-2017, 06:18 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
A teaser image. They modernized the design a bit (i lifted shadows):
No on-board flash from the looks of it. That'll upset some folks.
07-26-2017, 06:46 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I was trying to make you feel better about your buy. This new Nikon body will be in a totally different price bracket.

I've been know to pick losing horses... I owned a couple Pontiacs and then they folded, I was a big supporter of an audio production software, and they discontinued the product, I have enjoyed Pentax and they have been in and out for awhile... I've been a vocal supporter of Sigma K mount lenses, and they've been retracting from K mount, I've been eyeballing the Nikon DSLR system...

You can practice indoor shooting.. portraits? Macro? Pet photos? I think that was one of the first things I did with my K-1, took photos of a cat. Of course.

The D850 could very well be an entirely new sensor from Sony... or a scaled up version of the D500 sensor. I'm expecting closer to 50 MP. And, of course, it should have the D5 AF system... just with a smaller buffer. But they'll really have to impress if they're going to get people to give up their D810 bodies (and pony up the 3+ thousand dollars cost of admission).

The K-1 and the D810 are already so good..
IBIS would be a big new feature, even astro built in. But apart from pinching the ideas of others and maybe outdoing Canon with video it's quite hard to see what Nikon can really do beyond iterating to the best of technology available today. That includes putting more into slicker software in the camera. The point of sufficiency was passed a long time ago now, perhaps in about 2012 with the original D800. I suppose one could add that Nikon might also make a play for the kind of performance that would make medium format a questionable investment. Otherwise, the next really big thing further down the line is likely mirrorless or perhaps some new kind of sensor from a new company.

07-26-2017, 07:04 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
Even when the camera is out of warranty

---------- Post added 07-25-2017 at 10:46 PM ----------

Or a custom built one to Nikon specifications( I have a feeling that he D500- D7500 is using a sony sensor built to their specifications) or use their own design

---------- Post added 07-25-2017 at 10:47 PM ----------

This would make me consider updating to the D850

If they can squeeze out the base iso of the D850 to 50 or below then I would take a serious look at it
Yep. I think after the D600/D800 issue they sort of realized it is cheaper to admit their mistakes than getting involved in big legal battles. Sadly, I think that is what it takes to get a company to respond favorably to their technical issues.

We are pretty much guaranteed the D5 AF system if you look back at Nikon bodies historically, they seem to take that generation's D_ Autofocus system.

It is also pretty much guaranteed to have a flip screen at least as nice as the D500 if not better. That is my most used/appreciated new feature on the K-1 over my previous cameras. No more craning my neck to look through the back LED panel.. just tilt the panel at 90 degrees.

Base ISO isn't really accurate.. there was a chart going around awhile back and showed Pentax tend to under report how low their ISO really is. I can't seem to find it at the moment though.



QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
IBIS would be a big new feature, even astro built in. But apart from pinching the ideas of others and maybe outdoing Canon with video it's quite hard to see what Nikon can really do beyond iterating to the best of technology available today. That includes putting more into slicker software in the camera. The point of sufficiency was passed a long time ago now, perhaps in about 2012 with the original D800. I suppose one could add that Nikon might also make a play for the kind of performance that would make medium format a questionable investment. Otherwise, the next really big thing further down the line is likely mirrorless or perhaps some new kind of sensor from a new company.
Ding ding. We have a winner.

I think that is precisely what they will do with this body.. attempt draw people away from MF systems considering they don't have one of their own. That is why I think they'll really increase the resolution greatly. They can't increase the sensor size so that's the only way to go.

If they can get people to believe there is minimal to no difference between it and say a 645Z in image output then they will have succeeded. Especially at the price point which is still way under the cost of a MF system.

Even if they don't convince the MF folks to play, the number of folks moving from D800/810 will still make it a success.
07-26-2017, 07:56 AM - 1 Like   #40
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I really think that people over estimate what companies like Pentax and Nikon can do with Sony's base sensor. Nikon added an extra 0.16 EV of dynamic range to the K-1 performance by adding iso 64. The rest of the graph shows the K-1 actually out performing the D810 at every iso up to about 12K where they are even. On the other hand, the D810 graph lies exactly on top of the A7r graph from iso 100 on.

I just think the idea of Nikon tweaking an existing full frame sensor and coming up with a medium format killer is unlikely as we know what those sensors are already and medium format killers they aren't.
07-26-2017, 09:16 AM   #41
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More leaks on photorumors:




Looks like it has wifi and bluetooth, but no gps. (and obviously a flippy screen and illuminated buttons and a AF selection joystick)

Last edited by D1N0; 07-26-2017 at 09:21 AM.
07-26-2017, 09:41 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Was that shot with a Sony?
Since their last promotion management shots were done on Sony the answer is probably: yes.
07-26-2017, 10:26 AM   #43
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A+ on the illuminated buttons!
Hope users can control the brightness as I think that will prove handy in certain cases.

Oh and great looking camera too!
If Nikon works their magic on this sensor like they did with the D750, then maybe this will motivate Sony to stop being so lazy with their own sensors

Last edited by JohnBee; 07-26-2017 at 11:59 AM.
07-26-2017, 10:50 AM   #44
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Changing systems is an expensive proposition. I've done it a few times (3 years ago switched from Nikon to Pentax, before that Canon to Nikon, before that Fuji to Canon, and before that Hasselblad to Fuji, etc. etc.).

I love my Pentax K1 cameras and there's no way I'm switching back to Nikon for the new Nikon D850.

However, if I ever would choose to switch back to Nikon in the distant future, it would be relatively easy and inexpensive for me because I would not have to buy any new glass. I'd just use the same lenses on the new Nikon camera that I'm currently using on my Pentax K1 cameras. How can that be you ask????

Well, all of my best lenses are Zeiss ZF "Classic" or Zeiss ZF "Milvus" lenses that were originally made in the Nikon F mount. I converted them to Pentax K mount using Leitax F to K adapter mounts. I kept the original Nikon F mounts for each of these lenses. So, should I ever choose to return to a Nikon camera, it would take me less than an hour to re-convert all seven of my Zeiss lenses back to Nikon F mount!

So, should Pentax ever go under, I would likely buy a Nikon full frame body once both of my K1's died.

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 07-26-2017 at 10:57 AM.
07-26-2017, 11:26 AM - 3 Likes   #45
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Does anyone remember back in the early days of personal computers? I'd upgrade from, say, a i486-33 to a i486-66 processor because you could really feel the difference in your desktop experience. Today, you can't hardly notice a CPU upgrade it seems.

Cameras have become like that to me. Small, incremental changes. I have a D810 and I shoot that the least of all my cameras. But things like higher ISO offerings without way better dynamic range at these high ISO's doesn't get me very excited. And somehow I feel all Nikon will do is release something to keep their name in the game.
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