Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-27-2017, 03:06 PM   #61
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,375
QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
With sensor based PDAF. The real challenge is getting a good image in the VF. The diagram isn't very convincing. A transparent oled overlay on the focussing screen maybe. The current overlay is already oled.
It's an interesting idea and I hope they do it. This would solve a lot of problems for them and reduce the drift away from Nikon, but even so it's still a stopgap and there will probably turn out to be some technical downsides. Yes Nikon get to hold onto their mount franchise but in the DSLR itself they are still left with something that's not cheap or easy to manufacture - think of all the parts involved. As time goes by the disparity with the "camera on a circuit board" approach taken by Sony, Fuji and co will only grow and the economic advantage is with them. I suspect this will one of several approaches taken by the DSLR makers, but not the only one and in end not the winning formula. I still think a full mirrorless camera is the only eventual outcome as advances in technology and automated production will make it too attractive to pass up.


Last edited by mecrox; 07-27-2017 at 03:12 PM.
07-27-2017, 03:34 PM   #62
Pentaxian
photoptimist's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2016
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,636
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
It's an interesting idea and I hope they do it. This would solve a lot of problems for them and reduce the drift away from Nikon, but even so it's still a stopgap and there will probably turn out to be some technical downsides. Yes Nikon get to hold onto their mount franchise but in the DSLR itself they are still left with something that's not cheap or easy to manufacture - think of all the parts involved. As time goes by the disparity with the "camera on a circuit board" approach taken by Sony, Fuji and co will only grow and the economic advantage is with them. I suspect this will one of several approaches taken by the DSLR makers, but not the only one and in end not the winning formula. I still think a full mirrorless camera is the only eventual outcome as advances in technology and automated production will make it too attractive to pass up.
Having taken apart many a point-and-shoot camera(both film & digital), it's clear that camera makers can manufacture insanely complex stuff at very low costs. All those parts really are cheap. How else could the DSLR makers sell entire new bodies for a few hundred dollars?

Simpler (cheaper) products only win at the low end of the market which isn't where any of the current standalone camera makers are competing -- smartphones are the true "camera on a circuit board" product and they've won that already.

At the high-end of the market, people are gladly paying extra money for extra features and an OVF is clearly a nice extra feature that some large percentage of photographers still prefer.
07-27-2017, 04:04 PM   #63
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,303
QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Latest rumor has it that the D850 is sporting a hybrid EVF
This is the only way I see Nikon offering a serious F mount mirrorless. This gives photogs the advantages of an EVF while still protecting F mount from 3rd party adapters (for using other systems lenses). But also retains the advantages of an OVF. Get to pick.

It will be interesting to see if Nikon implements it in the D850 or otherwise..
07-27-2017, 04:06 PM   #64
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,375
QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Having taken apart many a point-and-shoot camera(both film & digital), it's clear that camera makers can manufacture insanely complex stuff at very low costs. All those parts really are cheap. How else could the DSLR makers sell entire new bodies for a few hundred dollars?

Simpler (cheaper) products only win at the low end of the market which isn't where any of the current standalone camera makers are competing -- smartphones are the true "camera on a circuit board" product and they've won that already.

At the high-end of the market, people are gladly paying extra money for extra features and an OVF is clearly a nice extra feature that some large percentage of photographers still prefer.
Have you seen a teardown of say the Nikon D500? Then compare that with a teardown of a Sony A7. It's quite hard to see the DSLR kind of camera assembly continuing as the mainstream method for more than a few years. There are just too many signs pointing another way, I think.


Last edited by mecrox; 07-27-2017 at 04:49 PM.
07-27-2017, 07:32 PM   #65
Pentaxian
photoptimist's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2016
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,636
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Have you seen a teardown of say the Nikon D500? Then compare that with a teardown of a Sony A7. It's quite hard to see the DSLR kind of camera assembly continuing as the mainstream method for more than a few years. There are just too many signs pointing another way, I think.
Why is it hard to see complex assemblies persisting? As complex as cameras may seem, camera makers have developed ways of manufacturing high-complexity objects at low cost. The cost differential between the Nikon and Sony is probably a lot lower than you think.

All the signs I see point toward products becoming more and more complex. Look at cars, aircraft, home appliances, etc. My microwave oven has a voice memo function!

Complexity is cheap and getting cheaper: advances in computer-aided engineering make designing complex stuff easier than ever; 3-D printing makes part complexity virtually free; and Foxconn (electronics contract manufacturer) is buying 1,000,000 robots to replace 500,000 assembly line workers.
07-27-2017, 08:53 PM   #66
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Working From Home
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,276
QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
If I remember correctly, when Pentax announced the 645Z they said later on, that they were extremely surprised (and pleased) with the pre-orders of 20K units. I think that on the same thread Adam posted that he had heard from B&H that Nikon had pre-orders of the 800 or 810 of 50K units (I forget exactly which one). The numbers are there.

You are essentially correct but the scale differential is actually larger than you illustrated. IIRC,the 50,000 D810 pre-orders was just the B&H pre-orders. The 20,000 645z was Ricoh's entire global order list.
07-28-2017, 02:00 AM   #67
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: mid nth coast,nsw
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,608

---------- Post added 07-28-17 at 08:10 PM ----------

[/COLOR]



Last edited by surfar; 07-28-2017 at 02:22 AM.
07-28-2017, 03:44 AM   #68
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,423
Hey it's the opinionated photographer again
07-28-2017, 06:55 AM   #69
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 23,662
QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Why is it hard to see complex assemblies persisting? As complex as cameras may seem, camera makers have developed ways of manufacturing high-complexity objects at low cost. The cost differential between the Nikon and Sony is probably a lot lower than you think.

All the signs I see point toward products becoming more and more complex. Look at cars, aircraft, home appliances, etc. My microwave oven has a voice memo function!

Complexity is cheap and getting cheaper: advances in computer-aided engineering make designing complex stuff easier than ever; 3-D printing makes part complexity virtually free; and Foxconn (electronics contract manufacturer) is buying 1,000,000 robots to replace 500,000 assembly line workers.
It feels like the bigger issue with cost is number produced rather than complexity of product. This is actually where pentax struggles as the number of units they sell per product is a factor of ten less than Canon and Nikon and Sony. R and D end up being spread out over fewer units. Pentax has a tendency to reuse tech as a result rather than developing new things for each model.
07-29-2017, 10:55 AM   #70
Pentaxian
JohnBee's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Newrfoundland
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,666
Nikon D850 updates: no EVF or hybrid viewfinder, even faster than 8 fps

Read more: Nikon D850 updates: no EVF or hybrid viewfinder, even faster than 8 fps | Nikon Rumors
07-29-2017, 11:00 AM   #71
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,423
Nikonrumors guy says no EVF because SAR-guy says it has. There is a petty feud going on there.
07-29-2017, 02:03 PM - 1 Like   #72
Pentaxian
JohnBee's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Newrfoundland
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,666
Based on their track record, I'd say the SAR guys are most likely wrong
07-29-2017, 02:22 PM   #73
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 23,662
8 fps and a deep buffer. 4K video (probably). A little better high iso performance with a slight step back in low iso performance. 42 megapixels. A bunch more auto focus points.

It all sounds reasonable, but not a big reason to upgrade unless your D810 is wearing out or you want to shoot sports with more megapixels than a D5 offers.
07-29-2017, 05:00 PM   #74
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: mid nth coast,nsw
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,608
Its a FF version of D500
07-29-2017, 05:13 PM   #75
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
disconnekt's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Riverside, CA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,366
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
8 fps and a deep buffer. 4K video (probably). A little better high iso performance with a slight step back in low iso performance. 42 megapixels. A bunch more auto focus points.
Comparing it to Sony's A7R2 (which shoots at 5fps, the buffer maxes out at straights 22 shots), Nikon's really going to make their buffer depth WAY bigger if they're gonna make the D850 shoot at 8fps, especially since the A7R2's uncompressed raw files average out at 81.6MB a photo.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
4k, camera, card, d500, d810, diagram, dslr, element, evf, f2.8, files, jpeg, k-1, model, nikon, option, overlay, pentax, pm, post, screen, sensor, silver, slr, specifications, support, tamron, vf, video, youtube
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NIKON D810 out of production - D850 coming? D1N0 Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 74 02-21-2017 04:23 AM
Nikon D850 Bunch Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 7 01-11-2016 02:25 PM
New Pentax leaf shutter 645 medium format lenses coming soon i83N Pentax News and Rumors 73 10-03-2014 08:03 AM
Digital FX format K-mount Marty Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 3 08-11-2008 03:18 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:03 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top