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08-13-2017, 10:51 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The big thing to me is to see progress with this sensor. Does it have better dynamic range and noise performance relative to the D810?
In theory, new CMOS sensor hardly can progress significantly with DR, unless using multi-capture techniques, because the max level of highlight sensor can handle is limited by breakdown voltage of the structure and sensor supply voltage. So, IMO, we aren't going to have 16 ev of DR, not possible. Eventually, once 14 ev is reached, can be +-0.3ev of difference from camera to camera, but 0.3ev is actually only 30%, which is nothing compare to the latitude encountered in nature and how the eye perceive that 0.3ev difference. In practice, I could be slightly wrong, I did not think that the KP would have such good DR and high iso image quality, and I was wrong. Now, it is often said that we should skip one generation of camera because the improvements aren't worth the spending, in that way, and based on D500 specs, I do not expect D850 to be any better than D810 in terms of image quality, but I may be wrong one more time :-)

08-14-2017, 09:42 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Biggest negative (for me) in the K-1 is buffer depth. Honestly, for my (and many other's) purposes, 36 megapixels is probably adequate.

The big thing to me is to see progress with this sensor. Does it have better dynamic range and noise performance relative to the D810? How good is it at low iso and at high iso? It seems that lately a lot of cameras are willing to sacrifice low iso performance in order to improve read out speed and give slightly better high iso performance, but I would rather have an extra half EV of dynamic range on the low end...
Panasonic is researching a sensor that captures HDR in one shot

Fuji and Panasonic have been working together on organic sensor technology. It will be able to capture HDR is a single exposure. The sensor can adjust exposure for each pixel independently. It would literally allow for photographers to implement the Zone system (a version of ) in real time capture. You could increase or decrease the exposure of each zone independently on the capture side. Higher dynamic range is going to come from more efficient sensor material, but from greater control of the exposure.
08-14-2017, 10:46 AM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Panasonic is researching a sensor that captures HDR in one shot

Fuji and Panasonic have been working together on organic sensor technology. It will be able to capture HDR is a single exposure. The sensor can adjust exposure for each pixel independently. It would literally allow for photographers to implement the Zone system (a version of ) in real time capture. You could increase or decrease the exposure of each zone independently on the capture side. Higher dynamic range is going to come from more efficient sensor material, but from greater control of the exposure.


Cool! Looks like the tech is geared more towards self-driving cars, but could still be adapted to use in photographic cameras.


It would be helpful to be able to underexpose the sky by half a stop and overexpose the darks/shadows by a stop or three... in camera. That is have a setting where the camera automatically knows to read each portion of the scene and apply the settings on the fly.


Could make Post production a lot quicker and, if quick enough, could mean HDR type movies.
08-14-2017, 11:35 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Cool! Looks like the tech is geared more towards self-driving cars, but could still be adapted to use in photographic cameras.


It would be helpful to be able to underexpose the sky by half a stop and overexpose the darks/shadows by a stop or three... in camera. That is have a setting where the camera automatically knows to read each portion of the scene and apply the settings on the fly.


Could make Post production a lot quicker and, if quick enough, could mean HDR type movies.
The rumor is that Fuji had expected to use a version of this technology in the X-Pro-2 and XT-2, but they never could solve the heat and power consumption issues. This is why we are only seeing the technology in application where the heat and power consumption can be handled with ease. Again, the rumor is that Fuji expected it to be ready by 2015. Fuji recently announced they had made some significant improvements in heat and power consumption, but we are probably still 3 years away. Unless something changes, Fuji and Panasonic both plan on implementing this into their mirrorless cameras as soon as the technology is ready. I'm sure neither company likes having to buy sensors from Sony.

08-14-2017, 02:15 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Here's a compilation of the known Nikon D850 specifications;

Read more: Nikon D850 specifications recap | Nikon Rumors

yup, just as I expected, not a damn thing on there that makes me want to rush out and buy it. I'm perfectly happy with my D810. To me, it has been the best camera I have ever owned and aside from a deeper buffer I have no complaints on it's performance. I guess I can skip this one without any problems. Hell, maybe I'll buy a second one when they hit the used market.
08-14-2017, 03:49 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
yup, just as I expected, not a damn thing on there that makes me want to rush out and buy it. I'm perfectly happy with my D810. To me, it has been the best camera I have ever owned and aside from a deeper buffer I have no complaints on it's performance. I guess I can skip this one without any problems. Hell, maybe I'll buy a second one when they hit the used market.
The NEF output at 3 different sizes seems interesting to me. And not a crop either on Medium or Low resolution.

That would be nice, if the IQ is there, to have the lower sizes for bursting type shots / events but yet have the full 45MP for landscapes or nature shots. It seems to be a rather robust camera.
08-14-2017, 04:03 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
The NEF output at 3 different sizes seems interesting to me. And not a crop either on Medium or Low resolution.

That would be nice, if the IQ is there, to have the lower sizes for bursting type shots / events but yet have the full 45MP for landscapes or nature shots. It seems to be a rather robust camera.
D810 does that (2 sizes) and I use it all the time for most events. I shot a burlesque show where I knew everything would be websized so I throttled it down to 9mp mode last week and it was perfect. For weddings, creative, studio work..etc. I push it back upto 36. 45 is cool, but 36 is already destroying hard drives and processing times for me, and my computer is no slouch in the power department.

I dunno, I think it's "too" much, and thats what is turning me off. If I want to have that much resolution I'd buy the GFX from Fuji I think over this. In 2 years of shooting with my D810 I have only one gripe...and that is when I hit the buffer wall, but I don't hit it often enough to want to change cameras over it. The D800 I was constantly thinking "I wish the AF was better, the buffer to clear faster, or RAW Compression/smaller RAW files". And when the D810 came it out had all that and I was sold instantly. The rendering and noise handling got a lot better too. After a year of shooting with my D810 I pretty much sold everything else I owned and collected camera wise aside from all my Film Pentax kit.

The only thing that has really got me excited since the D810 release that has got me jumping up and down like a 5 year old kid whos getting that wicked new lego kit for his birthday was the Fuji XT-2 and Fuji GFX. Fuji is kicking so much ass that I really hope they get some support from Profoto! I would drop my Nikon kit for a pair of XT-2 bodies and a handful of lenses in a heartbeat if they had a trigger that worked with my lights properly.

08-14-2017, 04:10 PM - 1 Like   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
D810 does that (2 sizes) and I use it all the time for most events. I shot a burlesque show where I knew everything would be websized so I throttled it down to 9mp mode last week and it was perfect. For weddings, creative, studio work..etc. I push it back upto 36. 45 is cool, but 36 is already destroying hard drives and processing times for me, and my computer is no slouch in the power department.

Medium on the D850 is just under 26 MP. Really nice resolution I think... in the sweet spot.

I agree that 36 MP is too much for many situations and feel the same way about HDD bloat and processing times. Of course I wouldn't have understood this fully until experiencing it. But it is really really welcome in certain situations, I've found.

I wonder, if the D760 ends up using the same sensor, if it will in fact have the Medium resolution of the D850 as its max resolution? That could be interesting.
08-14-2017, 04:38 PM - 1 Like   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Medium on the D850 is just under 26 MP. Really nice resolution I think... in the sweet spot.

I agree that 36 MP is too much for many situations and feel the same way about HDD bloat and processing times. Of course I wouldn't have understood this fully until experiencing it. But it is really really welcome in certain situations, I've found.

I wonder, if the D760 ends up using the same sensor, if it will in fact have the Medium resolution of the D850 as its max resolution? That could be interesting.
26mp is a nice spot. I'd use that for weddings easily, aside from formals, max resolution there all day long.

My long term goal is to use the D810 for everything but formals at weddings and get a medium format rig for the formals. But, it all comes down to use with my lights. I know...silly right that my use of the B1 dictates what camera I use. But it is by far and away the best on location tool I have and a big part of how I shoot! NO other lighting system would give me the consistency, reliability, and portability. I've been using it for almost 3 years and it's amazing showing up with just my backpack, a light stand, and an umbrella and do what I do. For that reason alone the D850 is arguably a better reason to purchase it instead of medium format... but Fuji is so damn sexy...
08-15-2017, 06:59 PM   #130
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My interest in the D850 depends a lot on the macro stacking capability. I currently use two battery operated stacking devices for field macro photography, the WeMacro battery/Android rail and the Hellicon FB Tube with my D500. I get superb results and really enjoy the D500. The Hellicon FB tube is very portable and terrific where it works. Its main limitation is the impact on maximum focus distance. The WeMacro is superb but means carrying more equipment into the field. If the D850 can shoot up to 300 stacking images it would be a dream. Just like the D500 with the Hellicon Tube you could shoot a 40 stack set of images in about 4 seconds with the ability to focus to infinity. I see this as a terrific macro and landscape solution. Added to this would be the same wildlife and sports capability for which I originally bought the D500, albeit at 9fps versus 10. I sense the D850 packs a lot of advanced features but the impact on my photography for focus stacking is potentially a game changer.
08-16-2017, 05:31 AM   #131
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I'm interested because the same sensor might be used in a "K-1 Mark II" a few years from now - and at a lower price.
And out of curiosity, of course. I'm not sure about the leaked (?) specs, but if true this seems to be an excellent all-around camera.
08-19-2017, 01:01 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The big thing to me is to see progress with this sensor. Does it have better dynamic range and noise performance relative to the D810? How good is it at low iso and at high iso? It seems that lately a lot of cameras are willing to sacrifice low iso performance in order to improve read out speed and give slightly better high iso performance, but I would rather have an extra half EV of dynamic range on the low end...
If it follows what was done with the D500 sensor then I donít think we will see much of a difference in base iso DR. With the D500 it looks like they are using dual conversion gain tech and such we see a decrease in noise at the iso it kicks in. With the D500 it starts at iso 400 and we see an increase in DR for that given exposure.

Without knowing what Nikon has done they might have optimised the camera for both base iso DR, with the d810 they done this and this increased the base DR but at the cost of DR at higher iso. But with the dual gain tech this could offset this loss and give both large DR with less noise at base iso and better DR less noise at higher iso.





Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

As seen above we should expect to see the best improvement my guess would be at iso 400 and above without the penalty of the loss of DR at base iso.
This should make for a more rounded general purpose camera and along with the FPS, how large the buffer is and along with the selectable raw file size this might be what Nikon is planning to make general purpose high MP body that can cover a lot of photographic requirements.

Last edited by Ian Stuart Forsyth; 08-19-2017 at 01:07 AM.
08-23-2017, 08:40 AM   #133
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Price was supposedly accidentally leaked.. around 3300 in the US. I think a few people even got to preorder it at bh before they took the page down! That could have been a placeholder price, but it does seem plausible for a cost.
08-23-2017, 08:56 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
With the D500 it looks like they are using dual conversion gain tech and such we see a decrease in noise at the iso it kicks in.
If I understand correctly, there is no DR advantage over a D800/D810 when shooting on a tripod, but the DR of the D500 (and likely D850) is better at higher ISO, better suited for improving image quality of dynamic shots, and same DR at lowest ISO.
08-23-2017, 09:05 AM   #135
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The nda is probably 0:00 CET tonight so then all official info should hit the web. For sensor performance we'll need to wait a bit more.
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