[mecrox]

With sensor based PDAF. The real challenge is getting a good image in the VF. The diagram isn't very convincing. A transparent oled overlay on the focussing screen maybe. The current overlay is already oled.

It's an interesting idea and I hope they do it. This would solve a lot of problems for them and reduce the drift away from Nikon, but even so it's still a stopgap and there will probably turn out to be some technical downsides. Yes Nikon get to hold onto their mount franchise but in the DSLR itself they are still left with something that's not cheap or easy to manufacture - think of all the parts involved. As time goes by the disparity with the "camera on a circuit board" approach taken by Sony, Fuji and co will only grow and the economic advantage is with them. I suspect this will one of several approaches taken by the DSLR makers, but not the only one and in end not the winning formula. I still think a full mirrorless camera is the only eventual outcome as advances in technology and automated production will make it too attractive to pass up.

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Last edited by mecrox; 07-27-2017 at 03:12 PM.

[photoptimist]

It's an interesting idea and I hope they do it. This would solve a lot of problems for them and reduce the drift away from Nikon, but even so it's still a stopgap and there will probably turn out to be some technical downsides. Yes Nikon get to hold onto their mount franchise but in the DSLR itself they are still left with something that's not cheap or easy to manufacture - think of all the parts involved. As time goes by the disparity with the "camera on a circuit board" approach taken by Sony, Fuji and co will only grow and the economic advantage is with them. I suspect this will one of several approaches taken by the DSLR makers, but not the only one and in end not the winning formula. I still think a full mirrorless camera is the only eventual outcome as advances in technology and automated production will make it too attractive to pass up.

Having taken apart many a point-and-shoot camera(both film & digital), it's clear that camera makers can manufacture insanely complex stuff at very low costs. All those parts really are cheap. How else could the DSLR makers sell entire new bodies for a few hundred dollars?

Simpler (cheaper) products only win at the low end of the market which isn't where any of the current standalone camera makers are competing -- smartphones are the true "camera on a circuit board" product and they've won that already.

At the high-end of the market, people are gladly paying extra money for extra features and an OVF is clearly a nice extra feature that some large percentage of photographers still prefer.

[mee]

Latest rumor has it that the D850 is sporting a hybrid EVF

This is the only way I see Nikon offering a serious F mount mirrorless. This gives photogs the advantages of an EVF while still protecting F mount from 3rd party adapters (for using other systems lenses). But also retains the advantages of an OVF. Get to pick.

It will be interesting to see if Nikon implements it in the D850 or otherwise..

[mecrox]

Having taken apart many a point-and-shoot camera(both film & digital), it's clear that camera makers can manufacture insanely complex stuff at very low costs. All those parts really are cheap. How else could the DSLR makers sell entire new bodies for a few hundred dollars?

Simpler (cheaper) products only win at the low end of the market which isn't where any of the current standalone camera makers are competing -- smartphones are the true "camera on a circuit board" product and they've won that already.

At the high-end of the market, people are gladly paying extra money for extra features and an OVF is clearly a nice extra feature that some large percentage of photographers still prefer.

Have you seen a teardown of say the Nikon D500? Then compare that with a teardown of a Sony A7. It's quite hard to see the DSLR kind of camera assembly continuing as the mainstream method for more than a few years. There are just too many signs pointing another way, I think.

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Last edited by mecrox; 07-27-2017 at 04:49 PM.

[photoptimist]

Have you seen a teardown of say the Nikon D500? Then compare that with a teardown of a Sony A7. It's quite hard to see the DSLR kind of camera assembly continuing as the mainstream method for more than a few years. There are just too many signs pointing another way, I think.

Why is it hard to see complex assemblies persisting? As complex as cameras may seem, camera makers have developed ways of manufacturing high-complexity objects at low cost. The cost differential between the Nikon and Sony is probably a lot lower than you think.

All the signs I see point toward products becoming more and more complex. Look at cars, aircraft, home appliances, etc. My microwave oven has a voice memo function!

Complexity is cheap and getting cheaper: advances in computer-aided engineering make designing complex stuff easier than ever; 3-D printing makes part complexity virtually free; and Foxconn (electronics contract manufacturer) is buying 1,000,000 robots to replace 500,000 assembly line workers.

[monochrome]

If I remember correctly, when Pentax announced the 645Z they said later on, that they were extremely surprised (and pleased) with the pre-orders of 20K units. I think that on the same thread Adam posted that he had heard from B&H that Nikon had pre-orders of the 800 or 810 of 50K units (I forget exactly which one). The numbers are there.

You are essentially correct but the scale differential is actually larger than you illustrated. IIRC,the 50,000 D810 pre-orders was just the B&H pre-orders. The 20,000 645z was Ricoh's entire global order list.

[surfar]

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Last edited by surfar; 07-28-2017 at 02:22 AM.

[D1N0]

Hey it's the opinionated photographer again

[Rondec]

Why is it hard to see complex assemblies persisting? As complex as cameras may seem, camera makers have developed ways of manufacturing high-complexity objects at low cost. The cost differential between the Nikon and Sony is probably a lot lower than you think.

All the signs I see point toward products becoming more and more complex. Look at cars, aircraft, home appliances, etc. My microwave oven has a voice memo function!

Complexity is cheap and getting cheaper: advances in computer-aided engineering make designing complex stuff easier than ever; 3-D printing makes part complexity virtually free; and Foxconn (electronics contract manufacturer) is buying 1,000,000 robots to replace 500,000 assembly line workers.

It feels like the bigger issue with cost is number produced rather than complexity of product. This is actually where pentax struggles as the number of units they sell per product is a factor of ten less than Canon and Nikon and Sony. R and D end up being spread out over fewer units. Pentax has a tendency to reuse tech as a result rather than developing new things for each model.

[JohnBee]

Nikon D850 updates: no EVF or hybrid viewfinder, even faster than 8 fps

Read more: Nikon D850 updates: no EVF or hybrid viewfinder, even faster than 8 fps | Nikon Rumors

[D1N0]

Nikonrumors guy says no EVF because SAR-guy says it has. There is a petty feud going on there.

[JohnBee]

Based on their track record, I'd say the SAR guys are most likely wrong

[Rondec]

8 fps and a deep buffer. 4K video (probably). A little better high iso performance with a slight step back in low iso performance. 42 megapixels. A bunch more auto focus points.

It all sounds reasonable, but not a big reason to upgrade unless your D810 is wearing out or you want to shoot sports with more megapixels than a D5 offers.

[surfar]

Its a FF version of D500

[disconnekt]

8 fps and a deep buffer. 4K video (probably). A little better high iso performance with a slight step back in low iso performance. 42 megapixels. A bunch more auto focus points.

Comparing it to Sony's A7R2 (which shoots at 5fps, the buffer maxes out at straights 22 shots), Nikon's really going to make their buffer depth WAY bigger if they're gonna make the D850 shoot at 8fps, especially since the A7R2's uncompressed raw files average out at 81.6MB a photo.