[normhead]

The problem is that you have to shoot with cameras from other systems in order to have valid points when you defend Pentax on every thread. Look at Normhead above. He wants lenses, f4 lenses to be more precise. And he is a Pentaxian. So you see, Pentax needs lenses and fast.

I would say the opposite, as long as you get what you need from what you have, you're wasting your time on other systems. Others may spend their time attacking us, but we have no need to defend ourselves. Folks like Dan who's only real defence of his attitudes is to attack other people's work or claim they are somehow cheating, believing that you have to look at every camera system out there to know what you want are simply in error. You need the tools to get the job done. . In most cases where a great number of systems could get the job done looking at multiple systems just takes time away from learning the system you use.

Which explains completely why I get the results i do with Pentax gear and Dan doesn't. The things he goes on about just don't make a lot of difference. Learning to use what you have does.

As for me needing ƒ4 lenses, I currently use the 28-105, a simply stunning lens in the tradition of Pentax's "lenses for the way people shoot pictures" with it's amazing ability for 3 D rendering. I still have my old FA-J 18-35 if I want Canikon quality images. And my ƒ4 60-250 which as far as I can tell in unmatched by anything in the Canikon world. Sure I'd like some new ƒ4 lenses. But new lenses in the Pentax tradition. I can get Canikon type quality from legacy glass. SO I can wait as long as Pentax takes for new glass. I can get Canikon quality from legacy glass.

Dan, you seem to be worshipping being flighty, jumping from system to system for every little perceived advantage. You say you had to switch, I say you have no idea what current Pentax gear can do, because you never gave it a chance. It's just so odd that someone who hasn't worked with Pentax gear in years would make those claims.

How does one not using currently Pentax gear make you and expert in current pentax gear, or even able to comment on it.?

I don't expect an answer to the last question. I do expect another personal attack from a person who should have been banned from the forum years ago. Notice mods, I am responding to a personal attack. Dan would rather play the "personal attack game" than discuss the issue at hand. And he won't answer the tough questions like the above. Do us all favour, ban him from the thread.

MY contribution to the thread on the Nikon D850 is that is an echo of Kunzite's "the D850 is the best camera I won't buy" I don't have to use the camera or other brand's cameras to know that. If Dan does, he needs to realize his opinion has nothing to do with anything but his own mindset.

I simply have no understanding of why Dan should be allowed to be a member of a forum where his main focus seems to be to come on and tell members why they should listen to him, not others members of the forum. Such behaviour is just inviting conflict.

You rarely hear anything as stupid as 'I'm qualified to comment on all things Pentax because i don't use it."

---

Last edited by normhead; 09-05-2017 at 07:26 AM.

[Rondec]

I'm not sure why every thread has to turn into a deluge of negativity towards Pentax. The D850 is a nice camera. It is not clear to me that if Pentax released a full frame camera with similar buffer, 4K video and the D850's level of auto focus, but a 3600 dollar price tag that they would sell any more units than they do K-1s. My guess is that they would sell fewer, as Pentaxians seem to be a little on the cheap side.

It is clear that Ricoh's goal has been to find a niche somewhere between the D610 and D810 but to have specifications that are as close to the D810 as possible and a price as close to the D610 as possible. That is what the K-1 is. My guess is that with the K-2 or whatever they call it that they will try to do something similar but using the D620's price and the D850's specs as their goals. How close they get is anyone's guess.

I don't know how many K-1s they have sold. Clearly their target was far less than Nikon's target with their full frame cameras, but it still feels like it has been successful thus far.

[BrianR]

Essentially it is a focus bracketing feature. You still have to stack the images using external software. So it is a time saving feature.

It's more than just time saving. I think it would be awesome for confined or cramped spaces where you can't easily get a rail in. Turning the ring manually between shots makes it too easy to shift the camera slightly, or accidentally jump the focus to far in a step resulting in a poorer stack. It is much better to have an automated system for this. This is either a terrific utility feature, or something a user will ignore completely. It could also be a gateway feature into the world of focus stacking, like the astro tracer could be into the world of expensive telescopes and skytracking mounts.


Not aimed at anyone in particular, but it doesn't have to be "well Pentax has pixel shift, so nyah nyah on your focus stacking". This is a feature that, imo, is long overdue as a standard on all cameras. If anything the nifty little things added to other brand's new offerings makes me look forward to see what Pentax rolls out next.

[D1N0]

his is a feature that, imo, is long overdue as a standard on all cameras

Shouldn't be to hard to add it to firmware. Question is how well it works with different type lenses, screw drive vs in lens driven systems. It certainly won't work on manual macro lenses.

[Dan Rentea]

I would say the opposite, as long as you get what you need from what you have, you're wasting your time on other systems. Others may spend their time attacking us, but we have no need to defend ourselves. Folks like Dan who's only real defence of his attitudes is to attack other people's work or claim they are somehow cheating, believing that you have to look at every camera system out there to know what you want are simply in error. You need the tools to get the job done. . In most cases where a great number of systems could get the job done looking at multiple systems just takes time away from learning the system you use.

Which explains completely why I get the results i do with Pentax gear and Dan doesn't. The things he goes on about just don't make a lot of difference. Learning to use what you have does.

As for me needing ƒ4 lenses, I currently use the 28-105, a simply stunning lens in the tradition of Pentax's "lenses for the way people shoot pictures" with it's amazing ability for 3 D rendering. I still have my old FA-J 18-35 if I want Canikon quality images. And my ƒ4 60-250 which as far as I can tell in unmatched by anything in the Canikon world. Sure I'd like some new ƒ4 lenses. But new lenses in the Pentax tradition. I can get Canikon type quality from legacy glass. SO I can wait as long as Pentax takes for new glass. I can get Canikon quality from legacy glass.

Dan, you seem to be worshipping being flighty, jumping from system to system for every little perceived advantage. You say you had to switch, I say you have no idea what current Pentax gear can do, because you never gave it a chance. It's just so odd that someone who hasn't worked with Pentax gear in years would make those claims.

How does one not using currently Pentax gear make you and expert in current pentax gear, or even able to comment on it.?

I don't expect an answer to the last question. I do expect another personal attack from a person who should have been banned from the forum years ago. Notice mods, I am responding to a personal attack. Dan would rather play the "personal attack game" than discuss the issue at hand. And he won't answer the tough questions like the above. Do us all favour, ban him from the thread.

MY contribution to the thread on the Nikon D850 is that is an echo of Kunzite's "the D850 is the best camera I won't buy" I don't have to use the camera or other brand's cameras to know that. If Dan does, he needs to realize his opinion has nothing to do with anything but his own mindset.

I simply have no understanding of why Dan should be allowed to be a member of a forum where his main focus seems to be to come on and tell members why they should listen to him, not others members of the forum. Such behaviour is just inviting conflict.

You rarely hear anything as stupid as 'I'm qualified to comment on all things Pentax because i don't use it."

Normhead, I took 2 paid corporate portraits and events where I used K1 side by side with 5D Mark IV. I shoot with K-3 II each time I go out with my friends who own Pentax cameras. I owned K5-II and K-3 II and if you think I have no experience with Pentax cameras then you're not wrong, you are very wrong.

Regarding me changing system thing, I don't change systems. I love to rent or to borrow cameras and lenses from other systems because each and every one makes me aproach differently photography due to their particularities. By doing that, I gain experience and I also have lots of fun.

Saying that it's a bad thing to try other systems only because you're happy with the current one it's like saying "I don't want to try hot meals because I'm used to eat my food cold".

That is my response to your usual comments.

Regarding the other thing where you say that I should be banned for my comments, take a look at all the threads I participated. The only ones that are off topic and agressive is where you or Kunzite apear. You want to see a civilised conversation where we actualy talk and learn some nice things from each other? There is a nice topic called Focusing points. It's a nice topic so please don't ruin it.

[BigMackCam]

I don't even know where to begin with this thread, so I'm closing it.

I will say, as a personal comment rather than with my moderator's hat on, we do seem to get a heck of a lot of negativity towards Pentax for a group of forums supposedly aimed at Pentax enthusiasts. I'm all for balanced discussion, and I do realise this is in the non-Pentax section, but for heaven's sake...

[BigMackCam]

Following a request from one of our members, I'm re-opening the thread - with some limitations on contribution, to eradicate the arguments.

Please keep it friendly, folks! Thanks in advance.

[photoptimist]

It's more than just time saving. I think it would be awesome for confined or cramped spaces where you can't easily get a rail in. Turning the ring manually between shots makes it too easy to shift the camera slightly, or accidentally jump the focus to far in a step resulting in a poorer stack. It is much better to have an automated system for this. This is either a terrific utility feature, or something a user will ignore completely. It could also be a gateway feature into the world of focus stacking, like the astro tracer could be into the world of expensive telescopes and skytracking mounts.


Not aimed at anyone in particular, but it doesn't have to be "well Pentax has pixel shift, so nyah nyah on your focus stacking". This is a feature that, imo, is long overdue as a standard on all cameras. If anything the nifty little things added to other brand's new offerings makes me look forward to see what Pentax rolls out next.

Agreed!

Focus stacking and especially focus stacking + pixel shift would be a killer feature for macro, product, architecture, and landscape photography

Every photographer has their own list of must-have, nice-to-have, and don't-care-if-it-has features that modulate whether they think the K-1 or the D850 is the better camera. For me, at least, IBIS (and it's portfolio of IBIS-provided features) is "must-have," focus-stacking is "nice," and 4k/burst/Nikon AF is "don't care" which puts the K-1 way ahead of the D850 for me even if the D850 weren't $1,000 more.

P.S. Thank you BigMackCam for reopening the thread.

---------- Post added 09-05-17 at 05:53 PM ----------

Much the same as with K-1 - crop mode RAW for events, FF 36MP RAW (+ pixel shift boost if required) for landscapes, studio etc.

On the subject of pixel shift, will be interesting to see K-1 pixel-shift output compared to 45 MP D850 output, once the test sites do their reviews.

A 36 MP pixelshift image has 3X the number of red and blue pixel measurements and 60% more green pixel measurements than a 45MP Bayer filter. Moreover, the pixel shift image won't suffer from moire effects (the D850 lacks a low-pass filter).

[D1N0]

I've looked up the manual and Nikon says you need a AF-S or AF-P lens (roughly equivalent to SDM or PLM I guess) So no screw drive (but maybe you could try).

Use an AF-S or AF-P lens. After mounting the appropriate lens, choose
an exposure mode of Aor Mso that aperture does not change during
shooting (recommended), then take a test shot at current settings and
view the results in the monitor. Once settings have been adjusted to
your satisfaction, close the viewfinder eyepiece shutter to prevent light
entering via the viewfinder interfering with photographs and exposure.
Use of a tripod is recommended. Mount the camera on a tripod before
shooting begins. To ensure that shooting is not interrupted, be sure
the camera battery is fully charged. If in doubt, charge the battery
before use or use an AC adapter and power connector (available
separately).

http://download.nikonimglib.com/archive3/ZxkUZ00Tk1ZE03I4gFm19qUTVH26/D850UM_NT(En)01.pdf It is on page 212

Testing will have to be done on whether it will work on screwdrive and third party AF lenses and Maybe DC driven lenses (don't know if those count as AF-s).

[Nicolas06]

We get it Pentax is doomed and you are on a holy mission to save every last user from this terrible brand even if you have to use alternative facts.

Not really for me Pentax was not doomed a few years ago. The FF also as offered was a nice move. The prblem as I see it is that the move are too slow and without clear direction recently.

K1 was clearly a budget camera in price with more than decent features. A steal some would say? But the associated lenses except the 28-105 are all quite expensive and highend. Already that's strange as it isn't really consistant Then the camera price increase and there still no budget lenses. So maybe now Pentax target highend ? But clearly they are not a match there in term of body.

They offering and strategy is strange. And to me they pay this inconsistancy heavily in their financial results. They should clarify what they aim. Value, Premium or both and ensure the matching products are delivered.

I can't really get why they didn't do that except that they may lack l the workforce for the necessary R&D for a top of the line camera... But then why the lack of budget lenses ? They didn't find any issue release 2 version of the 55-300 in a short time frame. Why the second one was not FF or then a third one for FF ? Why not a cheaper FF camera now that the K1 become expensive? Basically a K3 with K1 viewfinder and a 24MP sensor. No R&D, low price (like 1200) and they would take most of the value market...

If value isn't their motto and they target highend, where the K1-II with more FPS, new AF sensor and 4K ? Or just where the APSC flagship. Is K3-II really the APSC flagship we all dream of?

[BigMackCam]

K1 was clearly a budget camera in price with more than decent features. A steal some would say? But the associated lenses except the 28-105 are all quite expensive and highend. Already that's strange as it isn't really consistant Then the camera price increase and there still no budget lenses.

I find Ricoh's approach completely understandable. The K-1 (which, I'd agree, is a steal) has been made as accessible as possible to an audience that have long been waiting for a FF Pentax camera. They've priced it low to get people into the FF system. They clearly don't want to compromise on the optics, nor indeed the potential profits to be made from them - this is where they will make their money (and they have to, somewhere). Frankly, I'd be surprised if the next FF body is quite so competitively priced.

If people want low-budget, they'll mostly stick with APS-C, where there are excellent body and lens choices in the product range for those people. Then again, K-1 owners who want budget optics can take advantage of the big used market of old F and FA lenses. There's little business justification, IMHO, for Ricoh to develop and market a new range of low-cost (and, hence, low margin) lenses. There really isn't enough money in them.

[surfar]

K1 was clearly a budget camera

Some may view it that way but its a high price compared to the Apsc line....It should be viewed as the introductory digital FF Pentax(which is exactly what it is).Ya have to crawl before you walk!

NOW, this thread was closed...its open again, the subject is the newest NIKON...NIKON...NIKON....Ya get it?

The K-1ii is under development but RI wont tell us that AND they wont tell us when.

Back to the NIKON D850....at this stage it ticks boxes for some people due to the specs....what matters is how it performs in the hands of the consumer(and how many recalls it'll have?)

The PRICE!....for full capability is over U$4000(3300+grip/charger/battery)...its rated for 200,000accutations....for that ammount I can have 2 FF Pentax bodies,that will be good for 600,000 accutations

If value

...hmmm?

[Nicolas06]

The PRICE!....for full capability is over U$4000(3300+grip/charger/battery)...its rated for 200,000accutations....for that ammount I can have 2 FF Pentax bodies,that will be good for 600,000 accutations...hmmm?

When you put a 15-30, 24-70 and 70-200 from the brand into the overall cost, I am not sure 1400$ price difference for the body is the big deal... That why I have difficult for the highend stuff argument. This is no longer a 2X price difference by far but more something in the same range.

When interviewed Sony explained that the people that brought the A7RII where buying all sort of high end lenses. It was at a time the A7RII was quite expensive. And they said that from their market research it was quite not the cases in statistics for their A7-II customers.

Maybe Pentax is different, it surely is as if you'd agree to pay more for the body, you can't, so the K1 market is widder as the only camera in the mount covering FF. But the budget customers I not all buying expensives f/2.8 lenses.

As if the market is not worth it I don't understand then why it was worth it to make a new 55-300... The previous 55-300 was well regarded and well built already and it would have made lot of sense to make that PLM lens a 70-300, quite bigger and FF compatible. This way the market was better covered and the expected sales bigger...

[surfar]

When you put a 15-30, 24-70 and 70-200

Well nobody HAS to buy those lenses...

MY personal outlay for K-1/dfa28-105/dfa70-200....all new with 12month warranty(and a couple of free cards) is equal to the cost of the full capability D850.

Then, the prime capability of the da35/40ltd/50....all relative bargains!

So i havent got 4K video(but ive been using other brands for that)
So i havent got 9fps(but my other brands blow that outa the water)

NOW, this thread isnt about the K-1....get your head around that fact please!

[RockvilleBob]

This is a Möbius strip. You can jump in anywhere and get expert directions that lead you to the path of nowhere. You just go around and around, moving forward and passing the same point timelessly, over and over again.
We all buy clothes and shoes to meet our needs and preferences. Each person's clothes and shoes fit their style and budget. There is no "ONE" set of clothes and shoes that is the best for all. When you get down to something as trivial as "my camera is better than yours" you start your journey on the Möbius strip, You never reach a destination, you never make progress, you just go round and round. In my case I was very happy for many years with Pentax gear but after moving my photography shifted with different emphasis, more wildlife, particularly birds and birds in flight. So .. I made the decision to buy a different camera, a new set of clothes and shoes. I would guess in years to come I may make another change. Why should anyone care? As long as you feel you are wearing the right clothes and shoes and have the right camera for your needs, or one close enough to right in your mind's eye - who cares.