[Rondec]

When you put a 15-30, 24-70 and 70-200 from the brand into the overall cost, I am not sure 1400$ price difference for the body is the big deal... That why I have difficult for the highend stuff argument. This is no longer a 2X price difference by far but more something in the same range.

When interviewed Sony explained that the people that brought the A7RII where buying all sort of high end lenses. It was at a time the A7RII was quite expensive. And they said that from their market research it was quite not the cases in statistics for their A7-II customers.

Maybe Pentax is different, it surely is as if you'd agree to pay more for the body, you can't, so the K1 market is widder as the only camera in the mount covering FF. But the budget customers I not all buying expensives f/2.8 lenses.

As if the market is not worth it I don't understand then why it was worth it to make a new 55-300... The previous 55-300 was well regarded and well built already and it would have made lot of sense to make that PLM lens a 70-300, quite bigger and FF compatible. This way the market was better covered and the expected sales bigger...

I don't necessarily factor the cost of the glass in. I already owned a 24-70 when I purchased my K-1 and a DA *200 and a FA 31, 77, and DFA 100. I eventually did purchase a DFA 70-200 and 15-30, but those weren't exactly necessary purchases and if funds hadn't been there, I would have made do with the lenses I already owned, probably adding an Irix 15mm or something like that for the ultra wide and if I didn't have funds for the DFA 70-200 but wanted a lens covering that range, the Tamron 70-200 is very reasonably priced.

At the same time, if taken care of, the glass will certainly last beyond this camera body and will not require repurchasing. Once you factor that in, the actual cost needs to be spread over more years than the camera body.

[mee]

This is a Möbius strip. You can jump in anywhere and get expert directions that lead you to the path of nowhere. You just go around and around, moving forward and passing the same point timelessly, over and over again.
We all buy clothes and shoes to meet our needs and preferences. Each person's clothes and shoes fit their style and budget. There is no "ONE" set of clothes and shoes that is the best for all. When you get down to something as trivial as "my camera is better than yours" you start your journey on the Möbius strip, You never reach a destination, you never make progress, you just go round and round. In my case I was very happy for many years with Pentax gear but after moving my photography shifted with different emphasis, more wildlife, particularly birds and birds in flight. So .. I made the decision to buy a different camera, a new set of clothes and shoes. I would guess in years to come I may make another change. Why should anyone care? As long as you feel you are wearing the right clothes and shoes and have the right camera for your needs, or one close enough to right in your mind's eye - who cares.

This time a thousand! You have said it well!!

This is why we can't have nice things. Because too many personalities don't allow one to share without being attacked and demanding proof before somehow allowing another to have an opinion, as if they are the thought police from which we are requiring validation before we're allowed to believe any personally formed opinion.

These camera systems aren't life. Branch out a bit.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

When you put a 15-30, 24-70 and 70-200 from the brand into the overall cost, I am not sure 1400$ price difference for the body is the big deal... That why I have difficult for the highend stuff argument. This is no longer a 2X price difference by far but more something in the same range.

For many you might also consider the cost for people that would be chasing AF and frame rate in the next pentax K1mkII. Even when looking at the D800 ( now 5 years old) it checks off a lot in the performance in the AF department without the need for any upgrades. Now with the frame rate and dedicated processor for AF found in the D850 ( that was only found in $6000+) this camera is more geared for persons that would be using it till it craters with no need to upgrade in the next product cycle. I feel for many the D850 will have a 10+ years of life for that user with no need to upgrade.

With my D800 if it was not for the frame rate of the D850 along with iso 64 I would not consider it, I can make due with the D800 and until the D850 drops 20-30% at the next half cycle release of the D850 replacement it might find its way to my camera bag. My D800 will be 8 years old by then and if I had paid the D850 price for it it still would've been worth it in my opinion over 8 years of usage.

[D1N0]

Imaging resource has published their studio scenes:
Nikon D850 Review: First Shots - Samples

It looks to me Nikon is pushing black levels for more contrast and cleaner shadows, at the cost of detail. look at the dark piece of cloth first Nikon D850 second Pentax K-1 (iso 25600)

[Winder]

I'm not sure why the above samples really matter. If you need 100% crops of OOC JPEGs taken at ISO 25600 you have bigger problems. It looks like Nikon's default NR is stronger than the Ricoh's. That is about all you can take from those. For OOC JPEGs I would be more than happy with either if I did ever have the need to shoot 25600.

[Rondec]

I'm not sure why the above samples really matter. If you need 100% crops of OOC JPEGs taken at ISO 25600 you have bigger problems. It looks like Nikon's default NR is stronger than the Ricoh's. That is about all you can take from those. For OOC JPEGs I would be more than happy with either if I did ever have the need to shoot 25600.

I suppose it is of interest just as answering the question if this is a huge jump up from past full frame sensors. The answer is probably not, but as you say there is a little bit of noise reduction going on here. I prefer there to be less and if you want to do it in post then it is up to you.

[D1N0]

Photontophotos has the measurements for DR:

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

[D1N0]

dpreview shot their DR test. Marginal improvement over the D810 but the K-1 still looks better even when you compare ISO 64 to ISO 100 at +6ev

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d850-first-impressions-review/6

[interested_observer]

Two new bits of information (and links) on the sensor in the D850, in terms of who designed it and the foundry which produced it.

• Who Makes The Image Sensor For The Nikon D850 Camera - Not Sony - Fun Tech Talk

You Tube

You Tube

[surfar]

These camera systems aren't life

No,they are far more important than that!

[Winder]

Nikon D850 added to studio scene comparison: Digital Photography Review

https://www.diyphotography.net/nikon-d850-autofocus-system-d5-not-good/

[Wired]

I feel for many the D850 will have a 10+ years of life for that user with no need to upgrade.

With my D800 if it was not for the frame rate of the D850 along with iso 64 I would not consider it, I can make due with the D800 and until the D850 drops 20-30% at the next half cycle release of the D850 replacement it might find its way to my camera bag. My D800 will be 8 years old by then and if I had paid the D850 price for it it still would've been worth it in my opinion over 8 years of usage.

Funny, I feel the same way with the D810, a 10 year camera with no need to upgrade. I'm not sure about 10 years... but I'll be skipping the D850. I've read the previews, I've watched the videos. Everyone is going ga-ga. I get it, it's a really cool camera. It looks like an incredibly versatile tool. As a wedding and studio photographer I totally understand how appealing this camera is.

I only bought the D810 over the D800 because of the faster/quicker buffer, the AF improvements, the different RAW sizes, and the improvements to video were nice as well. The D850 does much of the same to the D810 with a lot more. But I haven't been wishing for any of those improvements. The only thing I've wanted out of the D810 successor is for me to get the exact same image quality and feature set..but mirrorless. I'd also like the lenses to be smaller...but still full frame. I know I'm not gonna get it

[Rondec]

Unless you don't shoot much, 10 year camera is a pretty unlikely. Yes, the shutter might last that long, but any time you are dealing with electronics, there is a chance of something going wrong and I don't see many people fixing a six year old camera if the shutter button stops working right or an e dial is sticking. I still agree with the overall sentiment. These cameras are so good that even if they add more megapixels or increase the frame rate or add 6K video, I would keep shooting with the older camera till it wasn't functional.

[Wired]

Unless you don't shoot much, 10 year camera is a pretty unlikely. Yes, the shutter might last that long, but any time you are dealing with electronics, there is a chance of something going wrong and I don't see many people fixing a six year old camera if the shutter button stops working right or an e dial is sticking. I still agree with the overall sentiment. These cameras are so good that even if they add more megapixels or increase the frame rate or add 6K video, I would keep shooting with the older camera till it wasn't functional.

very true.

My D810 is still in very good condition and it goes to work every weekend. Actually not this last weekend.. Fujifever got me something bad.

[Nicolas06]

For many you might also consider the cost for people that would be chasing AF and frame rate in the next pentax K1mkII. Even when looking at the D800 ( now 5 years old) it checks off a lot in the performance in the AF department without the need for any upgrades. Now with the frame rate and dedicated processor for AF found in the D850 ( that was only found in $6000+) this camera is more geared for persons that would be using it till it craters with no need to upgrade in the next product cycle. I feel for many the D850 will have a 10+ years of life for that user with no need to upgrade.

With my D800 if it was not for the frame rate of the D850 along with iso 64 I would not consider it, I can make due with the D800 and until the D850 drops 20-30% at the next half cycle release of the D850 replacement it might find its way to my camera bag. My D800 will be 8 years old by then and if I had paid the D850 price for it it still would've been worth it in my opinion over 8 years of usage.

This argument, provided originally by Business Engineer when there was no FF yet hold quite true. Would you have brought a D800 back in time with the lenses, well you would still be current when D810 or K1 came. The D850 is relevant if you are into action and that one is really the ultimate camera without any reason honestly to ask for more. But even original D800 AF is quite good, so the upgrade only worth it if you are into action. And with D850 burst, there no reason to want more what ever the practice.

The only check the D850 doesn't have is being small/light and having an echo system of small/light lenses. But no FF except Leica has that and counting the price they ask, I can't really consider them

Counting the D850 isn't a small mirrorless body in K-mount I'll not buy it anyway