Canon 50D copies & improves on Pentax

jms698 · 08-26-2008, 04:06 PM

Canon EOS 50D Hands-on Preview: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

Looks like Pentax is a force to take seriously in the camera business after all. It seems Canon may have lost some sales to the K20d. Otherwise, what need would there have been to copy some of the great features of that camera in this new 50D?

- New 15 MP sensor
- High ISO
- User-selectable high-iso noise reduction
- Better (and maybe actually useful) weather sealing (though then you still have to invest in an "L" lens)
- per lens AF micro-adjust
- Lens profiles (like Pentax's MTF mode)

All sounds like copy-cat from the K20d.

However, Canon has, of course, one-upped Pentax with the 3" VGA screen, 6 fps, contrast-detecting live view, silent mode, and ISO 12800 (although best to wait and see how horribly noisy it is).

Still, for $300 more than the K20d, I'd say Pentax still has a pretty good value proposition.

blwnhr · 08-26-2008, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by jms698

- Better (and maybe actually useful) weather sealing (though then you still have to invest in an "L" lens)

No different to needing a DA* lens on Pentax.

Originally posted by jms698

Still, for $300 more than the K20d, I'd say Pentax still has a pretty good value proposition.

But it's Canon, has more MP and high ISO (the new MP). People will gladly pay the difference.

But, competition breeds better products for the end user.

bigben91682 · 08-26-2008, 05:36 PM

I'm all for Pentax, but I think it's a bit bold to say Canon copied them with the 50D. I think consumers in this sector of the market are coming to expect certain features and Pentax just happened to release their model before Canon. Could Canon have engineered these upgrades to the 40D just since the release of the K20D? Maybe, but I have a feeling it's been in the pipeline since the 40D was released.

Wheatfield · 08-26-2008, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by jms698

Canon EOS 50D Hands-on Preview: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

Looks like Pentax is a force to take seriously in the camera business after all. It seems Canon may have lost some sales to the K20d. Otherwise, what need would there have been to copy some of the great features of that camera in this new 50D?

- New 15 MP sensor
- High ISO
- User-selectable high-iso noise reduction
- Better (and maybe actually useful) weather sealing (though then you still have to invest in an "L" lens)
- per lens AF micro-adjust
- Lens profiles (like Pentax's MTF mode)

All sounds like copy-cat from the K20d.

However, Canon has, of course, one-upped Pentax with the 3" VGA screen, 6 fps, contrast-detecting live view, silent mode, and ISO 12800 (although best to wait and see how horribly noisy it is).

Still, for $300 more than the K20d, I'd say Pentax still has a pretty good value proposition.

The Canon has a list price of $1299.00. When it hits the street, expect a lower price, and expect it to drop further within a few months.
Expect it to be priced very close to the K20 once it is in stores.

KungPOW · 08-26-2008, 06:05 PM

Another option for "ship jumping"!!!

Woo hoo!!

Now those that jump from the K20D to the D300 to the D700 can make a stop at 50D before the leap up to the D3.

I have to admit, it does look allot like the Canon version of the K20D. And the only thing missing is in-body shake reduction. And it does hold the trump card of faster frame rates...

Com'on Photokina! We expect great things Pentax!

miriya · 08-26-2008, 06:17 PM

I don't think K20D is cheaper than 50D.

Pentax using traditional, stoneage SAFOX VIII AF module about 6 years

*ist, *istD, *istDL, *istDS, *istDS2, K100D, K110D, K10D, K20D, K200D
GX-1L, GX-1S, GX-10, GX-20

I think it is best price dropper.
AF is killing Pentax..

plus, only 3fps, 1/4000, and so forth.

I hope Pentax shows me some improvement of mechanical part.
(as well as IQ)

ogl · 08-26-2008, 09:05 PM

50D has old AF module too. And no SR and weather-sealing. If Pentax will make K20D super with 1/8000, 5 fps and new AF - it could be very good...

))

Gooshin · 08-26-2008, 09:11 PM

this is entirely personal opinion but Canon has been developing CMOS technology for consumer digital camera use alot longer than Pentax (again, as far as i know)

therefore there is something to be said about the new 15mp canon chip other than simply an icnrease in MP count.

k100d · 08-26-2008, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by ogl

50D has old AF module too. And no SR and weather-sealing. If Pentax will make K20D super with 1/8000, 5 fps and new AF - it could be very good...

))

the 50D has a new processor which should help. there's one report out by a wildlife photographer who claimed it was the "fastest he's ever used"... certainly not conclusive, but hopeful. of course in DPR, all the moaners still want D300 level AF

Originally posted by Gooshin

this is entirely personal opinion but Canon has been developing CMOS technology for consumer digital camera use alot longer than Pentax (again, as far as i know)

therefore there is something to be said about the new 15mp canon chip other than simply an icnrease in MP count.

there's supposed to be a new design of the microlenses which should improve the overall sensitivity and again some initial results indicating an IMPROVEMENT on the 40D

PaddyB · 08-27-2008, 08:32 AM

I haven't found any real information on the weather sealing on this unit. I keep hearing "improved" weather sealing...how improved? I believe the 40D has sealed battery and card slot doors. What else is sealed on the 50D? Why do I seem to be the only "amateur" who is interested in weather sealing? Anyway, this unit seems A LOT more impressive than the D90 for a variety of reasons. Looks like Canon is really making an improved mid-range SLR and Nikon is just making a pricey gadget for the P&S crowd. I'm waiting to hear more about this camera, its making me a little nervous about my descision to purchase a K10D or K20D soon. The 40D wasnt enough of a step up for the price but this camera looks sweet. The only reason I want to buy the Pentax now is to be cheap (cheaper body upfront and of course in-body IS therefore save tons of money on lenses down the road). The 50D seems like a better system to invest in however. I wonder what Pentax has up their sleeve?

Blue · 08-27-2008, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by blwnhr

No different to needing a DA* lens on Pentax.

What is the price and performance comparison of the Canon L and Pentax DA* and other * lenses? (That is a rhetorical question.)

Originally posted by blwnhr

But, competition breeds better products for the end user.

Exactly!

séamuis · 08-27-2008, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Pentax using traditional, stoneage SAFOX VIII AF module about 6 years

thats going on the assumption that older=worse. they have been using the K mount for nearly 37 years, does that make it bad? pert of the reason for the slower performance is the 'double check' system pentax employs in its AF. something most people don't know or ignore. I am so tired of seeing 'SAFOX is bad because its old.' I have no doubts that pentax could improve the SAFOX system to easily compete with canon and nikon. you want a whole new system that could be glitchy and have problems? it will cost you more money and delay a release. or they can improve the system that works. but hey I guess some people just want something new and are not concerned with quality and reliability.

Nick_b · 08-27-2008, 09:39 AM

I don't think Canon is responding to Pentax directly, more like the market as a whole. They lost their grip on the top spot in the DSLR market and are trying to regain it. It's just going to force the manufacturers into a price/feature war that will benefit us, the consumer.

As it is now I don't think Pentax is really in the game. The biggest advantage to the Pentax system I see is that you can still use all your old school glass. Canon has a strangle hold on the entry level DSLRs when you look at feature/price comparisons. Nikon is top dog in the pro, semi-pro segment.

**rparmar** · 08-27-2008, 10:21 AM

I must unfortunately agree that Pentax is "not in the game" as far as the marketing and industry/street perception is concerned. They have always lagged behind on technology, though for a brief moment might have been in front in terms of APS-C sensor quality with the K20D. But the big two have more resources to throw at development. They have far more bodies available and will have even more soon. Pentax should have kept the K100DS in production as an entry-level model but likely could not afford this.

Unless they make a big announcement soon, with both entry-level and top-of-the-range bodies upcoming, their recent bump in popularity is going to slide. And not only an announcement... they need to hit the market very quickly.

Personally, I wish they'd ignore this game and produce boutique cameras for those that want something different. I don't think they can touch Canikon in their markets. Where is the Limited body when we need it?

deejjjaaaa · 08-27-2008, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by séamuis

I have no doubts that pentax could improve the SAFOX system to easily compete with canon and nikon.

+

Originally posted by séamuis

you want a whole new system that could be glitchy and have problems?

so - "could improve" OR "could be glitchy" (after how many years) ?

how about at least a central sensor optimized for bright
lenses/capable to detect the tungsten light so that I will not have to fight BF/FF using FA 50/1.4 under that tungsten light (and no - [plus 10/minus 10] AF adjustment sometimes is not enough in K20D for that matter, you need to send your camera in)...

08-26-2008, 04:06 PM	#1
jms698 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 133	Canon 50D copies & improves on Pentax Canon EOS 50D Hands-on Preview: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review Looks like Pentax is a force to take seriously in the camera business after all. It seems Canon may have lost some sales to the K20d. Otherwise, what need would there have been to copy some of the great features of that camera in this new 50D? - New 15 MP sensor - High ISO - User-selectable high-iso noise reduction - Better (and maybe actually useful) weather sealing (though then you still have to invest in an "L" lens) - per lens AF micro-adjust - Lens profiles (like Pentax's MTF mode) All sounds like copy-cat from the K20d. However, Canon has, of course, one-upped Pentax with the 3" VGA screen, 6 fps, contrast-detecting live view, silent mode, and ISO 12800 (although best to wait and see how horribly noisy it is). Still, for $300 more than the K20d, I'd say Pentax still has a pretty good value proposition.

08-26-2008, 06:17 PM	#6
miriya Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: South Korea Photos: Gallery Posts: 68	Pentax has poor AF I don't think K20D is cheaper than 50D. Pentax using traditional, stoneage SAFOX VIII AF module about 6 years ist, istD, istDL, istDS, *istDS2, K100D, K110D, K10D, K20D, K200D GX-1L, GX-1S, GX-10, GX-20 I think it is best price dropper. AF is killing Pentax.. plus, only 3fps, 1/4000, and so forth. I hope Pentax shows me some improvement of mechanical part. (as well as IQ)

08-26-2008, 09:05 PM	#7
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	50D has old AF module too. And no SR and weather-sealing. If Pentax will make K20D super with 1/8000, 5 fps and new AF - it could be very good...))

08-26-2008, 09:26 PM	#9
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by ogl 50D has old AF module too. And no SR and weather-sealing. If Pentax will make K20D super with 1/8000, 5 fps and new AF - it could be very good...)) the 50D has a new processor which should help. there's one report out by a wildlife photographer who claimed it was the "fastest he's ever used"... certainly not conclusive, but hopeful. of course in DPR, all the moaners still want D300 level AF Originally posted by Gooshin this is entirely personal opinion but Canon has been developing CMOS technology for consumer digital camera use alot longer than Pentax (again, as far as i know) therefore there is something to be said about the new 15mp canon chip other than simply an icnrease in MP count. there's supposed to be a new design of the microlenses which should improve the overall sensitivity and again some initial results indicating an IMPROVEMENT on the 40D

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08-26-2008, 04:16 PM	#2
blwnhr Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 663	Originally posted by jms698 - Better (and maybe actually useful) weather sealing (though then you still have to invest in an "L" lens) No different to needing a DA* lens on Pentax. Originally posted by jms698 Still, for $300 more than the K20d, I'd say Pentax still has a pretty good value proposition. But it's Canon, has more MP and high ISO (the new MP). People will gladly pay the difference. But, competition breeds better products for the end user.

08-26-2008, 05:36 PM	#3
bigben91682 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 728	I'm all for Pentax, but I think it's a bit bold to say Canon copied them with the 50D. I think consumers in this sector of the market are coming to expect certain features and Pentax just happened to release their model before Canon. Could Canon have engineered these upgrades to the 40D just since the release of the K20D? Maybe, but I have a feeling it's been in the pipeline since the 40D was released.

08-26-2008, 05:44 PM	#4
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by jms698 Canon EOS 50D Hands-on Preview: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review Looks like Pentax is a force to take seriously in the camera business after all. It seems Canon may have lost some sales to the K20d. Otherwise, what need would there have been to copy some of the great features of that camera in this new 50D? - New 15 MP sensor - High ISO - User-selectable high-iso noise reduction - Better (and maybe actually useful) weather sealing (though then you still have to invest in an "L" lens) - per lens AF micro-adjust - Lens profiles (like Pentax's MTF mode) All sounds like copy-cat from the K20d. However, Canon has, of course, one-upped Pentax with the 3" VGA screen, 6 fps, contrast-detecting live view, silent mode, and ISO 12800 (although best to wait and see how horribly noisy it is). Still, for $300 more than the K20d, I'd say Pentax still has a pretty good value proposition. The Canon has a list price of $1299.00. When it hits the street, expect a lower price, and expect it to drop further within a few months. Expect it to be priced very close to the K20 once it is in stores.

08-26-2008, 06:05 PM	#5
KungPOW Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,699	Another option for "ship jumping"!!! Woo hoo!! Now those that jump from the K20D to the D300 to the D700 can make a stop at 50D before the leap up to the D3. I have to admit, it does look allot like the Canon version of the K20D. And the only thing missing is in-body shake reduction. And it does hold the trump card of faster frame rates... Com'on Photokina! We expect great things Pentax!

08-26-2008, 09:11 PM	#8
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	this is entirely personal opinion but Canon has been developing CMOS technology for consumer digital camera use alot longer than Pentax (again, as far as i know) therefore there is something to be said about the new 15mp canon chip other than simply an icnrease in MP count.

08-27-2008, 08:32 AM	#10
PaddyB Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Taipei Posts: 65	I haven't found any real information on the weather sealing on this unit. I keep hearing "improved" weather sealing...how improved? I believe the 40D has sealed battery and card slot doors. What else is sealed on the 50D? Why do I seem to be the only "amateur" who is interested in weather sealing? Anyway, this unit seems A LOT more impressive than the D90 for a variety of reasons. Looks like Canon is really making an improved mid-range SLR and Nikon is just making a pricey gadget for the P&S crowd. I'm waiting to hear more about this camera, its making me a little nervous about my descision to purchase a K10D or K20D soon. The 40D wasnt enough of a step up for the price but this camera looks sweet. The only reason I want to buy the Pentax now is to be cheap (cheaper body upfront and of course in-body IS therefore save tons of money on lenses down the road). The 50D seems like a better system to invest in however. I wonder what Pentax has up their sleeve?

08-27-2008, 08:49 AM	#11
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by blwnhr No different to needing a DA* lens on Pentax. What is the price and performance comparison of the Canon L and Pentax DA* and other * lenses? (That is a rhetorical question.) Originally posted by blwnhr But, competition breeds better products for the end user. Exactly!

08-27-2008, 09:17 AM	#12
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Quote: Pentax using traditional, stoneage SAFOX VIII AF module about 6 years thats going on the assumption that older=worse. they have been using the K mount for nearly 37 years, does that make it bad? pert of the reason for the slower performance is the 'double check' system pentax employs in its AF. something most people don't know or ignore. I am so tired of seeing 'SAFOX is bad because its old.' I have no doubts that pentax could improve the SAFOX system to easily compete with canon and nikon. you want a whole new system that could be glitchy and have problems? it will cost you more money and delay a release. or they can improve the system that works. but hey I guess some people just want something new and are not concerned with quality and reliability.

08-27-2008, 09:39 AM	#13
Nick_b Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ottawa Canada Posts: 43	I don't think Canon is responding to Pentax directly, more like the market as a whole. They lost their grip on the top spot in the DSLR market and are trying to regain it. It's just going to force the manufacturers into a price/feature war that will benefit us, the consumer. As it is now I don't think Pentax is really in the game. The biggest advantage to the Pentax system I see is that you can still use all your old school glass. Canon has a strangle hold on the entry level DSLRs when you look at feature/price comparisons. Nikon is top dog in the pro, semi-pro segment.

08-27-2008, 10:21 AM	#14
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	I must unfortunately agree that Pentax is "not in the game" as far as the marketing and industry/street perception is concerned. They have always lagged behind on technology, though for a brief moment might have been in front in terms of APS-C sensor quality with the K20D. But the big two have more resources to throw at development. They have far more bodies available and will have even more soon. Pentax should have kept the K100DS in production as an entry-level model but likely could not afford this. Unless they make a big announcement soon, with both entry-level and top-of-the-range bodies upcoming, their recent bump in popularity is going to slide. And not only an announcement... they need to hit the market very quickly. Personally, I wish they'd ignore this game and produce boutique cameras for those that want something different. I don't think they can touch Canikon in their markets. Where is the Limited body when we need it?

08-27-2008, 10:27 AM	#15
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by séamuis I have no doubts that pentax could improve the SAFOX system to easily compete with canon and nikon. + Originally posted by séamuis you want a whole new system that could be glitchy and have problems? so - "could improve" OR "could be glitchy" (after how many years) ? how about at least a central sensor optimized for bright lenses/capable to detect the tungsten light so that I will not have to fight BF/FF using FA 50/1.4 under that tungsten light (and no - [plus 10/minus 10] AF adjustment sometimes is not enough in K20D for that matter, you need to send your camera in)...