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12-11-2017, 07:49 AM   #1
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A6000 or E-M10 to replace GR?

(UPDATE: Unexpectedly ended up with Panasonic GX85. Details in post #23 below.)

I'm curious to hear from Pentaxians who own either camera. What do you like about the A6000 or E-M10? What was disappointing?

The K-1 is and will remain my primary camera. I am shopping for a more compact option for traveling light and for street photography. No K-mount body is small enough.

My GR is dying and its replacement must have similar (or better) IQ, a cleanable sensor (no GR2 or RX100), and zoom. I realize this means a slightly larger camera than the GR.

As per the thread title, my short list is the Sony A6000 (16-50 kit lens, 24-75 equiv) or Olympus E-M10 ii (14-42 EZ kit, 28-84 equiv). They both look a bit better than the GR in low light. They both have good options for pancake primes if I decide to upgrade the kit lens for street photography.

A6000 has the edge in AF and smaller size. E-M10 ii has the edge in better controls.


Last edited by DeadJohn; 12-12-2017 at 09:22 AM.
12-11-2017, 08:03 AM   #2
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None of them will be as pocketable as the GR: Compact Camera Meter Personally I would pic the sony because of the larger sensor so it is more praktical with legacy glass adapted to it. I hope Ricoh will make the GR III waterproof or at least resistant. Would also take care of dust ingress.
12-11-2017, 08:48 AM   #3
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I have an EM10, first version, and love it! It is not pocketable, as previously pointed out, but an A6000 won't be either. I have nothing bad to say about it. It gets more use than my k5, because it is smaller and lighter. The one down side of micro 4/3 would be trying to find wide angle glass. 12-14mm is easy enough to get, which would equate to 24-28mm full frame. Wider than that is tough to find, although Olympus makes a 9-18mm zoom. The EM10 has in body stabilization, like Pentax, so an adapted lens will benefit from stabilization. The A6000 does not.
12-11-2017, 09:06 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
None of them will be as pocketable as the GR: Compact Camera Meter Personally I would pic the sony because of the larger sensor so it is more praktical with legacy glass adapted to it. I hope Ricoh will make the GR III waterproof or at least resistant. Would also take care of dust ingress.
I spent a lot of time on that website. The GR fits in a pocket but the risk of sensor dust makes it impractical; a pouch is required which then makes it too big to put in most pockets. I wish the E-M10's viewfinder didn't protrude so far because it increases the depth of the camera a lot.

I'm unlikely to adapt k-mount lenses to either camera. If I'm carrying an adapter plus larger lenses, I may as well carry my K-1 and get the full IQ with autofocus and automated aperture.

12-11-2017, 09:31 AM   #5
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The a6000 here's why
-Articulation of on board flash for bounce
-24.3mp
-more aftermarket and 3rd party accessories
-Playmemories apps
-all of your controls can be accessed with right hand
-you can Jacket pocket the a6000 with 16-50mm or 16mm,20mm sony apc-s lenses
-Free Capture One Express software for Sony Users
-usb charging in Camera
notes:16-50mm not as good as 18-55mm kit lens
A cool feature for video is True zoom which retains 1080p filming while using either the full sensor or zooms in 2x while still utilizing 1080p without having to digitally zoom. You can do it Smoothly or in 3 steps(1,1.4x,2.x) or in 10 steps.

Last edited by Sliver-Surfer; 12-11-2017 at 01:54 PM.
12-11-2017, 12:05 PM   #6
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That spec chart is obsolete, the mk3 10 is a remarkable little camera with access to 50+ Oly/Pano lenses and around 50 thirdparty lenses.

4K video in a stabilised body is excellent,IQ 16mp stills is excellent, the menu and controls ARE easy to use.

M43 is a great system to compliment FF.

---------- Post added 12-12-17 at 06:09 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
E-M10 ii
Bypass this model,its worth the extra $150 for the Mark 3.
12-11-2017, 12:32 PM   #7
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@Sliver-Surfer, thanks.

-Articulation of on board flash for bounce. My use case, travel and street photos, never uses flash. I don't think I ever deployed the flash on my GR. I've had my K-1 for a year and never attached a flash.

-more aftermarket and 3rd party accessories m43 has no shortage of 3rd party accessories, either (Pentaxians are used to 3rd party neglect, anyway)

-Playmemories apps Some interested things there, but nothing is a deal-maker.

-all of your controls can be accessed with right hand I will likely buy at B&H so I can compare controls in store. (will also check the A5100: it's an A6000 in smaller body, without viewfinder, fewer controls)

-you can Jacket pocket the a6000 with 16-50mm or 16mm,20mm sony apc-s lenses Yes, this is an advantage for the A6000. The Sony 20mm is a good street lens.

-Free Capture One Express software for Sony Users I avoid camera-specific software as much as possible. I shoot raw and process with LR.

-notes:16-50mm not as good as 18-55mm kit lens The Sony 16-50 gets much grief online but photos look okay IMO. There might be sample variation, so if I do get the Sony I know to test the lens ASAP. The Olympus 14-42 EZ seems to be a more consistent lens although not quite as wide considering the sensor difference (24mm Sony vs 28mm Olympus "equivalent")

-A cool feature for video is True zoom which retains 1080p filming while using either the full sensor or zooms in 2x while still utilizing 1080p without having to digitally zoom. I rarely use video. If I did, the E-M10 mark 3 would become tempting because I think it does 4K; the mark 2 saves me $200.

---------- Post added 12-11-17 at 02:37 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
E-M10 ii Bypass this model,its worth the extra $150 for the Mark 3.
The 2 is the same sensor, same physical controls. The 3 offers better video which doesn't matter to me, and tweaked menu interface which doesn't seem worth the extra cost.
12-11-2017, 12:49 PM   #8
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---------- Post added 12-12-17 at 06:55 AM ----------

I own the mk 3, and a couple more Olys, the mk 3 offers much much easier menu than my other Olys....Advanced Photo on the mode dial is worth the extra alone.Throw in the extra AF points and faster AF,the latest version 8 processor(its in the flagship model).

Its my favourite "little" camera...

12-11-2017, 02:19 PM   #9
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I'm personally in the camp of the Panasonic m43 rangefinder style cameras as a better replacement for the GR - but the A6000 is a nice camera as well. The question is really what is the purpose of the camera. I like using my m43 as an alternative to carrying a cell phone or an APSC DSLR - the happy middle ground. I have a GX-1 and a GX-7. The GX-1 plus a pancake is quite small - not LX-7 small (not as thin) but very small. The GX-85 or the GX-7 might fit your needs.

Here's a set of them with the Panny 14mm f/2.5 which I think is the smallest thinnest lens available for the platform other than the body cap lenses.
Compact Camera Meter
12-11-2017, 02:45 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I'm personally in the camp of the Panasonic m43 rangefinder style cameras as a better replacement for the GR - but the A6000 is a nice camera as well. The question is really what is the purpose of the camera. I like using my m43 as an alternative to carrying a cell phone or an APSC DSLR - the happy middle ground. I have a GX-1 and a GX-7. The GX-1 plus a pancake is quite small - not LX-7 small (not as thin) but very small. The GX-85 or the GX-7 might fit your needs.

Here's a set of them with the Panny 14mm f/2.5 which I think is the smallest thinnest lens available for the platform other than the body cap lenses.
Compact Camera Meter
Yes I agree, if you want to go m43, Panasonic is a better choice. I love a small camera with a tilt bounce in body flash for indoor shooting.
12-11-2017, 03:16 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
The GX-85
This is a better option than the Omd 10 mk2, imo,similar price...and will fit the pocket easier than Oly.

---------- Post added 12-12-17 at 09:28 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
and tweaked menu interface which doesn't seem worth the extra cost.
Its worth it,

The 2 cameras you have nominated have difficult menus...Pentax and Panasonic have simple menus.Its pleasureable to use a good menu.
12-11-2017, 04:47 PM   #12
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Thanks for the GX85 mentions. Made me recheck it and new sale price is under $600 with 2 zoom lenses. That's a big price drop. My choice is now more complex.

The GX850 is ruled out because of a tradeshow discussion and demo with Panasonic. GX1 is discontinued.
12-11-2017, 05:38 PM   #13
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Aside from the clunky Sony menus, A6000's biggest annoyances are the poor low-light AF (only does 0-20 EV, which is pretty poor by Pentax or Panasonic M4/3 standards), the poor battery life, the limited degree of flip in the flippy screen, the proprietary Sony Multi-Interface Shoe (which limits your accessories), and the lack of either a mic socket or headphone socket on the camera. In hand, however, it works very well. Grip is good, dials and controls are easy to access, EVF is OK.

However I have never been able to take a liking to the 'personality' and feel of the A6000, unlike the other NEX I've owned. (NEX-5, NEX-F3, A5000, A6000). Hence I rarely take the A6000 out with me.

QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
GX85
The G7 may also be a good Panasonic M4/3 option. Cheaper too.
12-11-2017, 06:24 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Aside from the clunky Sony menus, A6000's biggest annoyances are the poor low-light AF (only does 0-20 EV, which is pretty poor by Pentax or Panasonic M4/3 standards), the poor battery life, the limited degree of flip in the flippy screen, the proprietary Sony Multi-Interface Shoe (which limits your accessories), and the lack of either a mic socket or headphone socket on the camera. In hand, however, it works very well. Grip is good, dials and controls are easy to access, EVF is OK.

However I have never been able to take a liking to the 'personality' and feel of the A6000, unlike the other NEX I've owned. (NEX-5, NEX-F3, A5000, A6000). Hence I rarely take the A6000 out with me.



The G7 may also be a good Panasonic M4/3 option. Cheaper too.
Sony a6000 has a better battery life than the mirrorless cameras being considered. Sony a6000 firmware addressed the lowlight AF issues years ago

Last edited by Sliver-Surfer; 12-11-2017 at 06:44 PM.
12-11-2017, 06:53 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
Sony a6000 has a better battery life than the mirrorless cameras being considered.
Not by much - A6000 is 310/360 (EVF vs LCD), GX-85 is ~ 290, G-7 is ~ 360.

All poor by most DSLR standards, of course.
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