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01-16-2018, 04:48 PM   #1
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Hasselblad sensor shift creates 400Mp images

Sensor shift seems to becoming popular, Hassy's is a bit different combining 6 frames to create images over 2Gig in size.

Details are here: The new Hasselblad H6D-400c medium format camera can create 400MP multi-shot images with sensor-shift tech | Photo Rumors and here

Tas

01-16-2018, 05:44 PM   #2
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Nice, I guess. You can actually get the same effect by shooting panoramas if your goal is to shoot huge images. I have done huge images by combining 12 or 15 K3 images, but unless I'm printing huge, there isn't a whole lot of benefit.
01-16-2018, 06:13 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
Hassy's is a bit different combining 6 frames to create images over 2Gig in size.
Part of the reason is they are 16bit tiff files, not compressed dng.

Interesting way of shifting things, though. 6 shots: 4 shifted by 1 pixel and two shifted by half pixel, in different direction. Makes you wonder if Pentax will add similar technology with the next generation of SR. And even outputting 16bit files would be interesting, if they can actually fill those bits with meaningful data
01-16-2018, 06:19 PM   #4
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Werent they the first ones to come up with sensor shift?




01-16-2018, 07:51 PM   #5
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Pixel shift may become configurable like bracketing.
01-17-2018, 01:26 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
Werent they the first ones to come up with sensor shift?
Ricoh was the first one according to this article:

Pixel Shift roots in year 2000 by Ricoh. - PentaxForums.com
01-17-2018, 01:36 AM - 1 Like   #7
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For the $$$$ that HasselBAD costs...it should move the sensor 12 times sideways and 20 times up and down!

Once again Pentax moves it enough at 4% of that price!...BANG 4 $$$$!

01-17-2018, 03:07 AM   #8
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Asahi Pentax were the company to look to for innovation. This is not a full list but certainly impressive
Pentax cameras - Wikipedia

Last edited by TonyW; 01-17-2018 at 03:20 AM.
01-17-2018, 03:43 AM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Part of the reason is they are 16bit tiff files, not compressed dng.

Interesting way of shifting things, though. 6 shots: 4 shifted by 1 pixel and two shifted by half pixel, in different direction. Makes you wonder if Pentax will add similar technology with the next generation of SR. And even outputting 16bit files would be interesting, if they can actually fill those bits with meaningful data
Isn't part of the issue patents that various companies have on pixel shift technologies? This seems a little bit like Olympus' version of pixel shift. I do wonder how "real world" this will be. Subject movement is an issue when you are taking six images and combining them -- your sensor moves 1/2 to 1 pixel but the leaves on the tree move 40 pixels during your shots.

From a personal standpoint, I like Pentax's version as I don't need more than 24/36 megapixels and it just gives me an image with more dynamic range and less noise and more color depth, but the same resolution. That's good enough for me.
01-17-2018, 07:24 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
your sensor moves 1/2 to 1 pixel but the leaves on the tree move 40 pixels during your shots.
Definitely a problem. Pentax has some motion correction tech, though
01-17-2018, 10:14 AM   #11
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It looks like 'just' a jump up in the megapixel count - they had 4 and 6-shot multishot before, but with a 50mp sensor: H5D Multishot. I'm sure it's awesome when it's applicable and when you need an utter crap-ton of resolution and detail. I'd love a $200k photography budget (half of that is earmarked for giant prints).

A 'meh' response is to be expected in Pentaxforums, who needs pixel shift in medium format? The K-1 is enough. Until Pentax puts their pixel shift in a 645d, then it will be the bees knees. Yes, I'm feeling cynical.
01-17-2018, 10:37 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
A 'meh' response is to be expected in Pentaxforums, who needs pixel shift in medium format?
Well, many of us are satisfied with cameras released before 2016, so we really don't need that many MP. I have 16MP camera and see nothing but negatives with higher MP count, as my computer and HD already struggle with the raws. I can't imagine working with a 2GB tiff. Of course, I am not the target demographic for that Hasselblad. Those in the industry that need MF quality and massive amounts of MP will appreciate it much more than casual shooters (most of the users on this forum).
And I think most cameras on that level don't get bought by people, but rather by companies. Companies that rent gear or they have a company camera that various employees use, etc. Its not exactly a personal camera to take with you on vacation
01-17-2018, 10:37 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
Sensor shift seems to becoming popular, Hassy's is a bit different combining 6 frames to create images over 2Gig in size.
Details are here: The new Hasselblad H6D-400c medium format camera can create 400MP multi-shot images with sensor-shift tech | Photo Rumors and here
It's a little funny. They create a normal full color resolution pixelshift file with 100 Mpx RGGB. And then add some subpar color data from two shots. Each of those shots still needs debayering to add actual information and since it is only "1/2 pixel" this information anyhow needs to be computed back into the image data with a lot of guesswork.

So they add 2x ( R 25+G 25+B 25+G 25) Mpx shots to one full color 100 Mpx shot to create something that they call "400 Mpx".
Coooool - unless you ever went to school and learned math.

And this great "resolution" enhancement is gained by some undefined software algorithm guessing.

Show me one real sample raw file of a test scenario where the "400 Mpx" file really resolves more detail than the normal 100 Mpx pixelshifted file. Let alone 4x as much.
01-17-2018, 11:45 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
It looks like 'just' a jump up in the megapixel count - they had 4 and 6-shot multishot before, but with a 50mp sensor: H5D Multishot. I'm sure it's awesome when it's applicable and when you need an utter crap-ton of resolution and detail. I'd love a $200k photography budget (half of that is earmarked for giant prints).

A 'meh' response is to be expected in Pentaxforums, who needs pixel shift in medium format? The K-1 is enough. Until Pentax puts their pixel shift in a 645d, then it will be the bees knees. Yes, I'm feeling cynical.
Probably a better way to gain resolution for real world situations is to using a longer focal length and shoot a panorama. It works with any camera out there and is probably less susceptible to artifacts from subject movement.

The one thing I would say about Pentax's pixel shift is that before Raw Therapee started supporting it was that it was relatively limited in its usefulness for landscape situations. Having a software that automatically masks the motion artifacts out is helpful. If I was a pro shooting wall murals, I would figure out a way to make this work, but I'm not and for what I shoot 24 megapixels is enough, much less the 36 megapixels you get with the K-1.
01-17-2018, 12:02 PM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Of course, I am not the target demographic for that Hasselblad.
Nor am I.

I'm just getting exhausted by the negativity surrounding new products on the grounds that someone has no use for them (this is a general statement, and honestly not aimed at anyone in particular).

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Probably a better way to gain resolution for real world situations is to using a longer focal length and shoot a panorama. It works with any camera out there and is probably less susceptible to artifacts from subject movement.
Or you could do both...

You've got the tech to move the sensor in 1-pixel steps (and I don't think many deny this step for 4-shot/PixelShift is a groovy option when applicable to your subject matter), if it's small jump to let it move 1/2-pixel steps, why not include it for people to use where it's applicable?

I believe they had an older back that was 22mp and could do 4-shot for true colour and 16-shot for a true colour 88mp output. I'm not sure why they dropped it down to 6-shots and rely on interpolation, but from their samples it still looks better than upscaling a 4-shot true colour image. And it should be, more data is more better (until your editing hardware starts smoking).

It is a good point about the software, I wonder if the Hasselblad can separate the shots for motion correction, or in the case of the 6-shot option, to let the user twiddle with the interpolation algorithm used.
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