[Kunzite]

You had to go and say that, didn't you?

You know me so well!

But really, if they'd use a new mount, they should go with what they feel is optimal. Putting K-mount lenses directly on the MILC (i.e. at the wrong register distance) is something you want to avoid. And since FF and APS-C prices are now overlapping, not restricting the new mount to APS-C should be seriously considered.
This is a decision with long term consequences.

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Last edited by Kunzite; 02-18-2018 at 04:55 PM.

[BigMackCam]

One little detail here: who would .purchase a Pentax MILC?? Pentax users are very conservative, as demonstrated by their dislike of "plastics"; I can imagine the complaining if the K-3ii were replaced by a K-03, for example. In recent years, Pentax hasn't dazzled anyone with their marketing to attract anyone other than current users. I would purchase a MILC priced under $1K ..... but they need many more sales.

Actually, it's the only Pentax camera I'd buy in the short term. And I'd do so without selling any of my existing Pentax and Sony gear.

I bought my A7 MkII to perform two roles... firstly (and primarily) to use with adapted vintage lenses, and secondly as a backup / alternative to my Hasselblad HV, with A-mount glass. It fulfills both roles admirably. In fact, it's such a good alternative to my HV, that I often choose to use it as my primary camera. Sad but true.

I would use a Pentax MILC in the same way... I'd use it for adapted lenses, but also as a backup to my K-3 / K-3II (one of which will die at some point). If it was a full-frame camera with at least 24MP, but preferably 36MP, and a crop capability, I could see it becoming my main "modern" Pentax camera, as I could shoot all of my Pentax glass, as well as my vintage Soviet stuff, with one body. I'd still hang on to the K-3 or K-3II for the pleasure of using OVF, but for most of my photography, I could live with a good EVF.

If none of this happened (and, let's be honest, it seems unlikely), I think the next camera I buy will be the K-3II replacement... and only then, when my K-3 or K-3II dies, or when the replacement is itself about to be replaced and is on close-out pricing

Disclaimer: I don't consider myself generally representative of most Pentax users

[IgorZ]

The word is escaping me... How do they call this process when a company puts down its requirements for a product and then people outside of the organization brainstorm and design it? Crowd designing? Anyway, US military used this approach to design some truck platform, if I remember correctly. Maybe we can design the next Pentax camera Too bad I don't know anything about optics or electronics and can't contribute in any way. The funny thing is, I bet if Pentax let's us design a camera we are still going to complain about it

[BigMackCam]

The word is escaping me... How do they call this process when a company puts down its requirements for a product and then people outside of the organization brainstorm and design it? Crowd designing? Anyway, US military used this approach to design some truck platform, if I remember correctly. Maybe we can design the next Pentax camera Too bad I don't know anything about optics or electronics and can't contribute in any way. The funny thing is, I bet if Pentax let's us design a camera we are still going to complain about it

LOL

At times like these, it's worth remembering (or reading up on) the automotive disaster that was "Edsel", a range of cars designed primarily around the results of widespread market research...

For those that don't want to read up on it, consider instead a basic concept of democracy... "Everybody gets what nobody wants":

You Tube

You Tube

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Last edited by BigMackCam; 02-18-2018 at 05:29 PM.

[serothis]

Right now I'm oogling used A7II on ebay as a back up to my K-1.

I shoot with a lot of manual glass. The appeal would be something small, light and can make manual focusing faster and more precise.

The other appeal to me would be the flexibility. If want supreme IQ I can pull out my big fast glass. If I want something small and compact I could use something "slower" and more compact. The k-1, as good as it is, will never be compact.

If pentax came out with a K-1-esque MILC, I would be VERY interested.

[BigMackCam]

Right now I'm oogling used A7II on ebay as a back up to my K-1.

I shoot with a lot of manual glass. The appeal would be something small, light and can make manual focusing faster and more precise.

The other appeal to me would be the flexibility. If want supreme IQ I can pull out my big fast glass. If I want something small and compact I could use something "slower" and more compact. The k-1, as good as it is, will never be compact

An A7 MkII won't match the K-1 for large reproduction, heavily cropped and / or high ISO image quality, and it's a very different shooting experience to a DSLR that some won't enjoy (I do). But as a camera (backup or otherwise) for adapted lens use - especially manual glass - it's outstanding. And the image quality is still very good indeed.

A Pentax camera of equivalent or better capabilities would be very high up on my shopping list

[serothis]

An A7 MkII won't match the K-1 for large reproduction, heavily cropped and / or high ISO image quality, and it's a very different shooting experience to a DSLR that some won't enjoy (I do). But as a camera (backup or otherwise) for adapted lens use - especially manual glass - it's outstanding. And the image quality is still very good indeed.

A Pentax camera of equivalent or better capabilities would be very high up on my shopping list

Part of the appeal of the A7II is the price. On Ebay it's hovering at ~$800. If the A7III is released soon, the used price of the mark II could drop more. An A7R II would probably do a better job complementing a K-1 but at much higher price tag.

EDIT: Actually one of the disappointments (for me) of the A7R III was the surprising lack of weather sealing. The "weather sealing" is largely dependant on friction between parts instead of rubber gaskets.

[BigMackCam]

Part of the appeal of the A7II is the price.

Absolutely... and it's amazing how many people are prepared to compromise on otherwise lofty requirements when they can get a full-frame mirrorless camera with massive lens flexibility for relatively little money. All of a sudden, EVF, 24MP and last-generation high ISO performance looks perfectly acceptable And, frankly, for most uses it really is...

[surfar]

An APS-C only mount? Why should they repeat Fuji's mistake?

Making more stuff up Kunzy, RI would love to have what Fuji have in Apsc.Not too far down the track Fuji will have MF versatility RI could only imagine.

So now tell me Fuji havent got FF!

[Kunzite]

Who's making more stuff up?
Don't think for a second that Pentax with an APS-C-restricted mount would be a second Fujifilm. No, they would be Pentax with an APS-C-restricted mount, struggling their way up with intense competition and a hostile user base. No marketing to speak of, no hype. No way of convincing people that a FF-sized $1900+ APS-C is all they ever need

[mecrox]

One little detail here: who would .purchase a Pentax MILC?? Pentax users are very conservative, as demonstrated by their dislike of "plastics"; I can imagine the complaining if the K-3ii were replaced by a K-03, for example. In recent years, Pentax hasn't dazzled anyone with their marketing to attract anyone other than current users. I would purchase a MILC priced under $1K ..... but they need many more sales.

The problem with selling only to your userbase is that eventually age and infirmity carry them off faster than they are replaced. So really there are only two ways Pentax can go. The one which would interest me is getting on down with the new generation of cameras and photographers as an additional income stream to the DSLR cameras. Almost everyone expects sales of those to remain weak or reduced in coming years. A move into mirrorless would signal that Ricoh really do mean business. It would be hugely welcome, imho.

[Rondec]

I think Pentaxians want to see Ricoh investing more money in Pentax -- new products and better marketing. But being realistic, it doesn't seem as though that is in the cards. Mirrorless would require a large investment by Pentax. Designing an adaptor with a screw drive motor in it (and probably one without). Getting a line up of lenses for a new lens mount out the door. Figuring out how to use PDAF points on the sensor. Incorporating a decent EVF. Figuring out 4K video.

Everyone of these challenges is able to be met, if they have adequate financial resources, but this is a company that launched a full frame camera two years ago and is only just now releasing their first new full frame prime to go with it. Apparently figuring out ring style in lens motors was a tough challenge for their team...

In many ways, these sorts of arguments feel like they same arguments we have about tracking auto focus and video on SLRs. Why does Pentax lag behind? Because they don't have the resources thrown at these issues that companies like Fuji, Canon, Nikon and Olympus do. Even as Pentax takes one, halting step forward, other companies have bounded forward four or five steps, leaving them even further behind. I feel like entering the mirrorless market would only magnify those issues.

In the end, I do want to see Pentax succeed. I own a lot of their gear. It works well and is very comfortable to use. If they made a mirrorless camera, I would seriously consider buying it. I just don't think they are the sort of company that can match others in the mirrorless market.

[BarryE]

I think Pentaxians want to see Ricoh investing more money in Pentax -- new products and better marketing. But being realistic, it doesn't seem as though that is in the cards. Mirrorless would require a large investment by Pentax. Designing an adaptor with a screw drive motor in it (and probably one without). Getting a line up of lenses for a new lens mount out the door. Figuring out how to use PDAF points on the sensor. Incorporating a decent EVF. Figuring out 4K video.

Everyone of these challenges is able to be met, if they have adequate financial resources, but this is a company that launched a full frame camera two years ago and is only just now releasing their first new full frame prime to go with it. Apparently figuring out ring style in lens motors was a tough challenge for their team...

In many ways, these sorts of arguments feel like they same arguments we have about tracking auto focus and video on SLRs. Why does Pentax lag behind? Because they don't have the resources thrown at these issues that companies like Fuji, Canon, Nikon and Olympus do. Even as Pentax takes one, halting step forward, other companies have bounded forward four or five steps, leaving them even further behind. I feel like entering the mirrorless market would only magnify those issues.

In the end, I do want to see Pentax succeed. I own a lot of their gear. It works well and is very comfortable to use. If they made a mirrorless camera, I would seriously consider buying it. I just don't think they are the sort of company that can match others in the mirrorless market.

This is entirely pragmatic and realistic ...For me I'd like Ricoh to invest more and grow the range (obvious really), but not at the expense of destabilising Pentax. We can moan, groan and wish for more, or we can enjoy what we have and as new lenses and cameras come on stream slowly, just get on with using them. Other manufacturers have different approaches. I'm mostly comfortable with Ricoh's current approach to development. Sometime I may find a mirrorless system that works better than what Pentax offers, but for now I prefer to use what I have, which does the business and my customers don't seem to care what I use.

[mecrox]

I think Pentaxians want to see Ricoh investing more money in Pentax -- new products and better marketing. But being realistic, it doesn't seem as though that is in the cards. Mirrorless would require a large investment by Pentax. Designing an adaptor with a screw drive motor in it (and probably one without). Getting a line up of lenses for a new lens mount out the door. Figuring out how to use PDAF points on the sensor. Incorporating a decent EVF. Figuring out 4K video.

Everyone of these challenges is able to be met, if they have adequate financial resources, but this is a company that launched a full frame camera two years ago and is only just now releasing their first new full frame prime to go with it. Apparently figuring out ring style in lens motors was a tough challenge for their team...

In many ways, these sorts of arguments feel like they same arguments we have about tracking auto focus and video on SLRs. Why does Pentax lag behind? Because they don't have the resources thrown at these issues that companies like Fuji, Canon, Nikon and Olympus do. Even as Pentax takes one, halting step forward, other companies have bounded forward four or five steps, leaving them even further behind. I feel like entering the mirrorless market would only magnify those issues.

In the end, I do want to see Pentax succeed. I own a lot of their gear. It works well and is very comfortable to use. If they made a mirrorless camera, I would seriously consider buying it. I just don't think they are the sort of company that can match others in the mirrorless market.

So the answer is more porridge? I don't see why a mirrorless line would have to have anything to do with Pentax. It could be done as a Ricoh line, developed by a Ricoh team, and it could even use an existing mount (M43, e.g.) rather than start over with a brand-new one. I guess the idea would be to provide their Smart Vision operation with two main income streams rather than one. The hassle at the mo is that their main income stream, the DSLRs, are declining year on year. It's not either/or with Ricoh/Pentax or DSLR/DSLM. Anyway we'll see. It's quite hard to think Theta is all they've ever had in mind on the Ricoh side, though it could be so.

[serothis]

Developing mirrorless tech isn't mutually exclusive from DSLR tech. Live view is effectively a DLSR pretending to be mirrorless. Which means that all the tech in a mirrorless body can use a DSLR as it's test bed. And vise versa, any improvements in mirrorless tech can be benefit live view in all all of pentax's lineup. Any improvement in sensors AF, video, etc can benefit Pentax's entire product line up regardless of the existance of a mirror.