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06-24-2018, 09:36 PM   #1
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Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2; rebadged Helios

Seems like a lot of bother to get a few extra nickels from a Helios 58/2.

Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2


Last edited by tvdtvdtvd; 06-24-2018 at 10:01 PM.
06-25-2018, 02:27 AM   #2
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At least the listing clearly states it's a copy based on a 44M. There are plenty of Helios lenses being sold on eBay as things they're not, by even less scrupulous sellers...
06-25-2018, 04:33 AM   #3
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Biotar is the optical design. So technically this is correct. it doesn't state it is a CZJ lens.
06-25-2018, 04:48 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Biotar is the optical design. So technically this is correct. it doesn't state it is a CZJ lens.
No, the trim ring (2nd photo) says Carl Zeiss Jena, when it's clearly a Helios... but at least the seller is honest about that.

06-25-2018, 08:04 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
No, the trim ring (2nd photo) says Carl Zeiss Jena, when it's clearly a Helios... but at least the seller is honest about that.
Yep. Click through the photos and you'll see the nameplate ring emblazoned with CZJ. A nice touch but also rather nonsensical that
they included a factory logo. As far as I'm aware, CZJ didn't have a factory logo. I'm not familiar with the logo on this lens; is it made
up? It looks like a variation of the Valdal or ZOMZ logo.
06-25-2018, 08:15 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by tvdtvdtvd Quote
I'm not familiar with the logo on this lens; is it made
up? It looks like a variation of the Valdal or ZOMZ logo.
I think it's made up... Rather like the lens

The CZJ logo can be found here:

https://www.zeiss.com/corporate/int/history/company-history/the-zeiss-logo.html

Last edited by BigMackCam; 06-25-2018 at 10:47 AM.
06-25-2018, 10:36 AM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by tvdtvdtvd Quote
A nice touch but also rather nonsensical that
they included a factory logo. As far as I'm aware, CZJ didn't have a factory logo.
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I think it's made up... Rather like the lens
I don't know why the Zeiss logo page linked above does not include it, but my CZJ Pancolar 50/2 has the flag in circle mark (some sources say tree). My understanding is that its origins are pre-WWII and are in reference to the some aspects of the optical glass manufacturing in Jena which were conducted on a floating island on a small pond. Most '50s vintage CZJ lenses bear the mark as do many from the '60s. Edit: A later post on this thread correctly established that the mark is a stylized "1Q" standing for "Erste Qualität" (first quality) as part of a grading scheme used at the time.



FWIW, "Carl Zeiss Jena" was the label for pre-WWII product as well as for those after the war.


Steve


Last edited by stevebrot; 06-28-2018 at 08:55 PM.
06-25-2018, 11:17 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
my CZJ Pancolar 50/2 has the flag in circle mark
Nice! Thanks for that, I honestly didn't know.
06-25-2018, 11:27 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
my CZJ Pancolar 50/2 has the flag in circle mark (some sources say tree). My understanding is that its origins are pre-WWII and are in reference to the some aspects of the optical glass manufacturing in Jena which were conducted on a floating island on a small pond. Most '50s vintage CZJ lenses bear the mark as do many from the '60s.
Good catch, Steve!
06-25-2018, 11:34 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by tvdtvdtvd Quote
Seems like a lot of bother to get a few extra nickels from a Helios 58/2.

Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2
With the median monthly pension amount in Ukraine of $60-70 that $30 are not exactly a few extra nickels for someone. Sadly.
06-28-2018, 06:02 PM - 1 Like   #11
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I read that flag and circle simply stand for 1Q - or first quality/Erste Qualität. These were supposedly quality checked copies of these lenses.

You can find it on Meyer lenses of the same vintage, too:

06-28-2018, 08:52 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by antipattern Quote
I read that flag and circle simply stand for 1Q - or first quality/Erste Qualität. These were supposedly quality checked copies of these lenses.

You can find it on Meyer lenses of the same vintage, too:
That makes sense. I had not seen it on other than Zeiss. So another myth laid to rest

A quick Google search on "Erste Qualität" turned up multiple references.


Steve
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