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07-19-2018, 09:02 AM - 1 Like   #1
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Fuji XF10, getting the jump on Ricoh GR3

Fuji announced their new XF10. Compact, fixed lens, APS-C sensor, a direct competitor for the Ricoh GR line. Here's my commentary on the new XF10 and how it compares to the GR series.


Price $500. That's the biggest surprise with the XF10 announcement. It's very competitive compared to the $600 GR2. If Ricoh's plan for the GR3 is to increase the price, this new XF10 might call for a change in strategy.

24 megapixels. The GR and GR2 are 16mp and that's IMO plenty for a handheld, non-stabilized camera, but 24mp is the new standard so I expect the GR3 will have that too.


The XF10 lens seems suspiciously similar to the GR. Both lenses are 7 elements in 5 groups, 2 aspherical elements, f2.8, minimum focus 3.9". The only spec difference seems to be 18.5mm vs 18.3 focal length which could just be a typo or bad roundoff.

XF10 has a "snapshot" feature that looks similar to the GR "snap focus". The XF10 appears to be less customizable in this area than what I can do with the GR.


The back side of the XF10 looks bare; far fewer controls than the GR's superb interface. The XF10 has a touch screen. Touch screens are good for menu diving because you can go directly to an item without stepping past other choices one click at a time. Physical switches and buttons are better for quick changes to frequently accessed settings. (I have a m43 camera without an MF/AF switch - I have to navigate a touch screen to change focus modes)

---------- Post added 07-19-18 at 12:04 PM ----------

@Adam, I am still getting random double spacing between paragraphs. See top post.

---------- Post added 07-19-18 at 12:04 PM ----------

@Adam, I am still getting random double spacing between paragraphs. See top post.

07-19-2018, 09:41 AM   #2
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Thanks for posting this review. I is well done. I have no interest in the fuji but it is good to know that Ricoh has some incentive to do something with its little camera.
07-19-2018, 09:58 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
I have no interest in the fuji but it is good to know that Ricoh has some incentive to do something with its little camera.
I wish it would do something with its little interchangeable lens camera too
07-19-2018, 12:46 PM   #4
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Interesting little camera. Im in the market for a good compact so Im excited to see how this one shapes up. Bayer sensor too!

07-19-2018, 03:00 PM   #5
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When you sit back and do nothing/say nothing and generally ossify... don't be surprised when competitors get the jump on you and previous customers quickly become former customers. This thing is priced excellently, hopefully it performs well.
07-19-2018, 03:07 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by wjjstu Quote
When you sit back and do nothing/say nothing and generally ossify... don't be surprised when competitors get the jump on you and previous customers quickly become former customers. This thing is priced excellently, hopefully it performs well.
Ricoh Imaging can't win with some people They announce development of the new FF and APS-C lenses, then take a while to produce them, and some people are up in arms, threatening to leave the brand. Conversely, they don't give out information on possible development of other products such as the GR3, and other people are up in arms about that, threatening to leave the brand.

Thankfully, it's not a problem unique to Ricoh / Pentax... It's primarily a problem for those users that believe they have such a burning need for a newer, better product. I assume they must all be professional photographers with unbelievably demanding clients...
07-19-2018, 03:19 PM   #7
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The biggest problem is the lack of actual new product they're putting out.

07-19-2018, 03:59 PM   #8
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huh, very competitive offer. A newer model, with 4k video, and possibly better sensor performance (if they're using the same chip as their other cameras), for same price as GR2. I'm very interested especially with the film simulations, it'd be a perfect travelling/second camera companion.
07-19-2018, 04:00 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by wjjstu Quote
The biggest problem is the lack of actual new product they're putting out.
I guess that depends on the individual... It's not a problem at all for me. I'm largely OK with the existing products, current pace of release and quality of released products, especially if it keeps the Ricoh Imaging division economically viable and profitable. I know they'll have extremely good and justifiable reasons for doing what they're doing.

They obviously have what they feel is a comfortable balance between what they're prepared to invest versus what they expect to make. It's a relatively low risk strategy, I believe. And I'm sure they fully expect those who want a Sony-style development and release schedule to jump ship - and that's OK too. Those same people will probably jump ship again further down the line. And again. And again. They'll have factored this into their forecasts.

This is a division of a very large, very mature, very knowledgeable and very capable group company. There are numerous people (individuals... enthusiasts like us, mostly) who think they know better than the folks at Ricoh, but they're not privy to the division's business strategy and constraints within the group. We can be pretty confident that everything they do has a good reason and justification attached to it
07-19-2018, 04:22 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Ricoh Imaging can't win with some people They announce development of the new FF and APS-C lenses, then take a while to produce them, and some people are up in arms, threatening to leave the brand. Conversely, they don't give out information on possible development of other products such as the GR3, and other people are up in arms about that, threatening to leave the brand.

Thankfully, it's not a problem unique to Ricoh / Pentax... It's primarily a problem for those users that believe they have such a burning need for a newer, better product. I assume they must all be professional photographers with unbelievably demanding clients...
Another vague strawman on PF -- who are these 'some' people? And who here is threatening to leave the brand? 'We' had this discussion recently in the news and rumors section when someone made a similar complaint of unnamed complainers and people threatening to leave the brand. Then, when questioned on it, said they weren't even on this forum but saw them in another forum they read. ooookay.

But yes different people are going to want different products. Instead of complaining about the perceived complaints (and thus making more complaints), maybe we should welcome the desire of others to want to give Ricoh their money? I figure that is what companies like.. and if someone is looking to buy something from them, it should be welcomed.


But why isn't anyone making one of these with a 40mm lens? Pentax has a couple tiny 40mm pancakes... that would be a neat focal length imo for a portraity pocketable. Or even 28mm on crop (42mm field of view equiv from FF). 18ish just seems too wide for people stuff unless you plan on cropping the image down imo.
07-19-2018, 04:49 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Another vague strawman on PF -- who are these 'some' people? And who here is threatening to leave the brand? 'We' had this discussion recently in the news and rumors section when someone made a similar complaint of unnamed complainers and people threatening to leave the brand. Then, when questioned on it, said they weren't even on this forum but saw them in another forum they read. ooookay.
I'm sorry you feel that way... Way to call me out

I don't feel I was vague, but rather generalising based on numerous posts I've read and moderated over the years. I'm not saying anyone (including the poster I replied to) in this thread is threatening to leave the brand, I'm pointing out that we get a number (though a relatively minor subset, it has to be said) who complain about various aspects of the brand, products, release schedule, etc. (replace with any aspect you wish) and talk about themselves or, indirectly, others jumping ship as a result. I'm sure you've read the posts... I know I have, but I'm not about to go back and search for them to post links here to satisfy anyone's desire for proof. I say, take me at my word, if you will... or not, as the case may be.

People are welcome to post their opinions and claims, whether I agree or disagree with them. I'm also at liberty (in my "regular member" role) to post my feelings about such opinions and claims, so long as I do it respectfully, and I always try to (I expect others will report me if that's not the case).

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
But yes different people are going to want different products. Instead of complaining about the perceived complaints (and thus making more complaints), maybe we should welcome the desire of others to want to give Ricoh their money? I figure that is what companies like.. and if someone is looking to buy something from them, it should be welcomed.
Respectfully, I've seen you respond this way a number of times over the last year or so, and normally I stay out of it... But I feel it's worth commenting on this occasion...

Objecting to what we feel are inaccurate views or unreasonable complaints is perfectly valid (even if that's not your personal approach), and it's often very useful in providing a balance of opinion for others to consider. Complaining about complainers - something I know you complain about from several of your historical posts - doesn't invalidate the original views or complaints; it merely presents an alternative view, especially if it's offered constructively (again, I always try to do that). We could, each of us, simply remain silent when someone says or implies something we disagree with, but that's awfully benign in terms of discourse and debate, and rather negates one of the key benefits of these forums, IMHO.

In line with your suggestion, you might have declined to comment on my complaint of others' complaints. But you didn't. You called out my comment as a vague strawman - perhaps respectfully, though I'm still unsure if the wording merits that categorisation Either way, I welcome your view, even if I disagree with it (and, respectfully, I do). That's what these forums are for

Last edited by BigMackCam; 07-19-2018 at 05:02 PM.
07-19-2018, 05:19 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'm sorry you feel that way... Way to call me out
Expect more from a mod.

You guys set the tone in more ways than you probably think..


QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I don't feel I was vague, but rather generalising based on numerous posts I've read and moderated over the years.
Whose posts? They don't seem to be here...

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'm not saying anyone (including the poster I replied to) in this thread is threatening to leave the brand, I'm pointing out that we get a number (though a relatively minor subset, it has to be said) who complain about various aspects of the brand, products, release schedule, etc. (replace with any aspect you wish) and talk about themselves or, indirectly, others jumping ship as a result.
Yet that is the basis of generalizing and being abstract. The issues you seem to have seen aren't even on topic in this thread, you're just bringing more negativity into a thread that didn't otherwise have it, by complaining about negativity that isn't even here!


QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'm sure you've read the posts... I know I have, but I'm not about to go back and search for them to post links here to satisfy anyone's desire for proof. I say, take me at my word, if you will... or not, as the case may be.
But without proof your claim is indeed an abstract generalization.... or more succinctly a strawman.


QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
People are welcome to post their opinions and claims, whether I agree or disagree with them. I'm also at liberty (in my "regular member" role) to post my feelings about such opinions and claims, so long as I do it respectfully, and I always try to (I expect others will report me if that's not the case).

Yet you completely changed the topic of discussion here to rant at unknown people who seemingly aren't even commenting in this thread.


QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Respectfully, I've seen you respond this way a number of times over the last year or so, and normally I stay out of it... But I feel it's worth commenting on this occasion...

Objecting to what we feel are inaccurate views or unreasonable complaints is perfectly valid (even if that's not your personal approach), and it's often very useful in providing a balance of opinion for others to consider. Complaining about complainers - something I know you dislike from several of your historical posts - doesn't invalidate the original views or complaints; it merely presents an alternative view, especially if it's offered constructively (again, I always try to do that). We could, each of us, simply remain silent when someone says or implies something we disagree with, but that's awfully benign in terms of discourse and debate, and rather negates one of the key benefits of these forums, IMHO.
Pointing out that complaining about complainers is just another form of complaining isn't meant to invalidate the complaints, but point out the hypocrisy of trying to snuff out the complainers through complaining about them.



QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
In line with your suggestion, you might have declined to comment on my complaint of others' complaints. But you didn't. You called out my comment as a vague strawman - perhaps respectfully, though I'm still unsure if the wording merits that categorisation Either way, I welcome your view, even if I disagree with it (and, respectfully, I do). That's what these forums are for
As I said, I figured you were above the nonsense of complaining about complainers as a means to somehow having meaningful conversation. So it comes as a shock to me to see you falling into the same hole as some of our more ...enthusiastic... 'brand fans' in a thread otherwise without issue.


But thanks.
07-19-2018, 05:34 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Expect more from a mod.
Please remember, I'm a regular member too. My moderating duties are a voluntary sideline to help all forum members who operate within the forum rules, as indeed I've helped you. But that's separate from my own personal involvement in the forums in relation to my hobby, which - as I stated - I always attempt to keep respectful and within the rules (and generally achieve, I think).

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Whose posts? They don't seem to be here...
I already stated that I wasn't about to do a search for them. You're welcome to believe or disbelieve me as you see fit I see an awful lot of posts each day in my work - far more than I participate in. One gets to recognise certain types of posts. But as I say, you can choose to disbelieve what I say. It's all good.

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Yet that is the basis of generalizing and being abstract. The issues you seem to have seen aren't even on topic in this thread, you're just bringing more negativity into a thread that didn't otherwise have it, by complaining about negativity that isn't even here!
The poster I replied to said,

"When you sit back and do nothing/say nothing and generally ossify... don't be surprised when competitors get the jump on you and previous customers quickly become former customers"

I merely offered a counter to that. I don't believe I was bringing more negativity into the thread - I believed I was adding balance. Not all of your posts meet with my personal wishes and likes in terms of positive influence, but I don't usually call them out. The beauty of these forums is that we're free to respectfully discuss things within the rules.

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Yet you completely changed the topic of discussion here to rant at unknown people who seemingly aren't even commenting in this thread.
No, I only responded to a poster who suggested that other people may leave due to Pentax doing and saying nothing. No rant, so far as I'm concerned.

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Pointing out that complaining about complainers is just another form of complaining isn't meant to invalidate the complaints, but point out the hypocrisy of trying to snuff out the complainers through complaining about them.

As I said, I figured you were above the nonsense of complaining about complainers as a means to somehow having meaningful conversation. So it comes as a shock to me to see you falling into the same hole as some of our more ...enthusiastic... 'brand fans' in a thread otherwise without issue.

But thanks.
Please. Let's just leave it there. I thought you and I got on pretty well in the past, but perhaps not Please PM me or the moderating team if you have any further issue with what I've said

Last edited by BigMackCam; 07-19-2018 at 05:41 PM.
07-19-2018, 06:08 PM   #14
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I thought we were just discussing.. but ok we can leave it be.
07-19-2018, 06:42 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote

But why isn't anyone making one of these with a 40mm lens? Pentax has a couple tiny 40mm pancakes... that would be a neat focal length imo for a portraity pocketable. Or even 28mm on crop (42mm field of view equiv from FF). 18ish just seems too wide for people stuff unless you plan on cropping the image down imo.
40 is too long on a aps-c sensor for general work. I use 40 a lot but for what Id use a compact camera for (travel, snapshots, etc) a wide ish to wide is much better.
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