[Rondec]

Everyone has different needs and expectations. That's why some love EVF and others love OVF. I don't think that I've ever took a shot in a situation where I couldn't see anything in the viewfinder. As long as I see something in viewfinder, I take the shot.

I don't shoot astrophotography and when my friends convince me to go with them to shoot some astro, I usually make some tests in daylight and see where the infinity focus is on my lens and I put a mark on the lens so that I can start shooting immeadiately. I take a test shot in order to see the compositiin and I'm good to go. A noisy EVF is not much of a help in really dark situations, at least this was my impression.

I do like eye af and the lack of front back focus when comes to mirrorless cameras, but I also saw enough images taken with A7 III (even with A9) in restaurants where the eye af missed focusing on the eye even when people didn't move. But a good marketing and with the help of Sony fanboys, these things don't come up to surface.

No one's auto focus is perfect in every situation. While the A9 is able to shoot 20 frames per second, there is certainly no guarantee that all 20 of those frames are going to be in focus, depending on what you are shooting and the light will affect what your results are. Sony's auto focus is excellent, but there are a lot of other good cameras out there these days and if people are struggle to get sharp focus, I don't think they should blame their gear.

[mecrox]

You might be surprised at the number of folks who shoot out of camera jpegs and do minimal post processing. For them, the EVF really is what you see is what you get.

I am on the other side of the fence. I'm often shooting under exposed to protect the highlights and in point of fact, in that situation, the EVF (if it really does show what the jpeg is going to look like) is actually going to make things more difficult as it will be darker than the scene. Beyond which, I am one of the unfortunate folks who gets headaches and eye strain when using EVFs for any length of time and so from a physical standpoint, I prefer OVFs.

I think for people who do much post processing you are exactly right. EVFs are no better than OVFs. It is going to be up the photographer to figure out how much to underexpose a particular scene and how much detail he thinks he can get from the shadows and if maybe the best thing would be to shoot a couple of different exposures to be on the safe side.

I'm sure EVFs are here to stay, I just think for photographers who do much post processing and don't shoot manual focus lenses, their benefits have been dramatically overstated by those who love them.

Protecting highlights on my camera isn't hard. Blinkies indicate over exposure. If the rest of the EVF becomes too dark, not in fact a problem I've encountered much in practice, then autogain can be used to boost the EVF back up if necessary. While which to go for is obviously a matter of personal preference, few of the objections I've seen to EVFs actually stack up. Probably the most irritating is a flickering/moire effect in neon-type lighting.

[Rondec]

Protecting highlights on my camera isn't hard. Blinkies indicate over exposure. If the rest of the EVF becomes too dark, not in fact a problem I've encountered much in practice, then autogain can be used to boost the EVF back up if necessary. While which to go for is obviously a matter of personal preference, few of the objections I've seen to EVFs actually stack up. Probably the most irritating is a flickering/moire effect in neon-type lighting.

I think the point isn't that it is hard to protect the highlights. The point is that EVFs show you what an out of camera jpeg will look like, not what a post processed landscape will look like. And of course, there are "blinkies" for cameras with OVFs that you can enable when your image preview pops up.

I will just say again that for most people the differences in viewfinder are actually fairly minimal. I can't say that I have seen any images that were taken with an EVF that I could say weren't possible to take with a camera with an OVF. Experienced photographers don't need a bunch of helps cluttering up their viewfinders and the end images are mostly the same.

As I said before, EVFs do well in particular for people who shoot a lot of manual focus lenses (I don't use these) and straight out of camera jpegs (I don't use these either). Otherwise, once you start dropping presets on your image in Lightroom, your EVF is definitely not WYSIWYG.

[Dan Rentea]

No one's auto focus is perfect in every situation.

No, there is not.

While the A9 is able to shoot 20 frames per second, there is certainly no guarantee that all 20 of those frames are going to be in focus, depending on what you are shooting and the light will affect what your results are.

I know that, you know that, but there are lots of photographers who believe all the marketing done online by Sony and their "ambassadors". I've shoot with A9 and A7 III, I've also seen in action A9 and A7 III at a wedding and also at a party and A9 is quite an impressive camera, but the eye af had difficulties to keep the focus on the eye on a few simple occasions. It was distracted by some peacock feathers which were close to the subject's face. The EVF from A9 is far more nicer than the one from A7 III, but at the end of the day you still have the impression that you are looking at a very small TV.

[reh321]

One its only a work around that still doesn't show you what is contained within the raw file it only gives you a best guess as to what is contained and is still very easy to clip data,

not all cameras allow you to install custom profiles into the cameras body,

you also need to have a profile basically for every iso you would shoot at,

if the user wants to pre use a white balance lens filter to better balance light being captured as to reduce clipping in one or more channels your histogram and review will be off

and lastly its rather time consuming to run a full set of images thru software and set the camera to a best guess as to hide what hidden processing is being done behind the curtains.

Apparently our workflows in the field differ. When I put the camera to my eye, I have done everything but press the shutter. I need for the VF to show me my framing points; that is basically all I need from it. My initial point was the EVF will deliver that if camera has enough light to capture the photo; OVF may not. That was my point.

[photoptimist]

The OVF shows an optical approximation what is possible in the input scene. That is, the OVF image is not-clipped by the exposure settings, WB settings, and DR limitations of either the sensor or an electronic display.

The EVF shows an electronic approximation what is likely in the output photograph. That is, the EVF image provide an approximate idea of how exposure settings, WB settings, and sensor limitations combine to create an output image.

Both VF types have their advantages and both VF types have their limitations. Neither is superior in every shooting scenario.

Mirrorless ILCs offer a nice EVF but no OVF at all. DSLRs offer both an OVF and a crude EVF (LV on on the backside display that can have an eyepeice with the addition of a loupe-hood). Unless one wants the best-possible EVF (which requires a mirrorless camera with no OVF), the DSLR option offers the flexibility of both VFs.

Personally, I want a hybrid VF and can imagine at least four different technical architectures for merging an EVF display into the pentaprism optics of an OVF.

[reh321]

Nikon's "announcement"

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/about-nikon/press-room/press-release/jjkjhg6g/Ni...rformance.html

is just a restatement of the rumors we've been hearing - no real news. To me, these various things from Nikon are just there to keep their "loyal" users "in the fold". If my interpretation is correct, Nikon is concerned about "loyal users" defecting to other brands - they must think MILC has some attraction.

[Dan Rentea]

Nikon's "announcement"

Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and NIKKOR Lenses?Featuring a New Mount?That Pursue a New Dimension in Optical Performance

is just a restatement of the rumors we've been hearing - no real news. To me, these various things from Nikon are just there to keep their "loyal" users "in the fold". If my interpretation is correct, Nikon is concerned about "loyal users" defecting to other brands - they must think MILC has some attraction.

Even if some say that Canon & Nikon are late to the party, Sony will have a hard time in keeping their current market share with Canon and Nikon joining the mirrorless market.

Canon already seems to lead in Japonese mirrorless market and they don't have yet a mirrorless full frame. This news just pop up on the internet "Canon Releases 2Q 2018 Results, Claim to Have Captured #1 Mirrorless Marketshare in First Half of 2018 in Japan".

[surfar]

Even if some say that Canon & Nikon are late to the party, Sony

has been hosting the party with her rich cousin Leica occasionally dropping by!

So,CaNik have to come up with a superior product to hurt $$$ony sales and $$$ony have 3rd generation product and a fairly good lens range with Tokina/Tamron/Sigma/Samyang and others in support....the next 18months will be interesting.

[reh321]

has been hosting the party with her rich cousin Leica occasionally dropping by!

So,CaNik have to come up with a superior product to hurt $$$ony sales and $$$ony have 3rd generation product and a fairly good lens range with Tokina/Tamron/Sigma/Samyang and others in support....the next 18months will be interesting.

My understanding is that the latest Canon DSLRs have sensors that would be suitable in an MILC. It is conceivable that they have been designing their DSLRs so that creating an entire "fleet" of MILCs would be a straight-forward removal of mirror-box and addition of EVF. If that were the case, especially considering their thirty-years of EF/USM lenses, I would think they're in a strong position to go mirrorless. Interesting times, indeed.

[surfar]

so its safe to Assume that the live stream on 23rd August will reveal a lot of detailZZZZZZ

This Day will reveal ALL!

---------- Post added 07-27-18 at 10:05 AM ----------

Interesting times, indeed.

Real specs will probably leak prior to 8/23rd.

[reh321]

Real specs will probably leak prior to 8/23rd.

But most everyone was expecting the announcement to contain "Real Specs"; only a few Nikon Fanboys are happy with an alleged announcement that says nothing.

[Dan Rentea]

So,CaNik have to come up with a superior product to hurt $$$ony sales and $$$ony have 3rd generation product and a fairly good lens range with Tokina/Tamron/Sigma/Samyang and others in support....the next 18months will be interesting.

Not necessarily. 6D Mark II has strong sales despite the fact that the specs are inferior to Sony equivalent.

The mirrorless M5 and M50 helped Canon to claim the first position in Japanese mirrorless market despite the fact that Sony has the A6xxx line which is nice and also a strong full frame line. Both M5 and M50 have strong sales outside Japan also.

If the upcoming Canon mirrorless cameras (rummors say that we may see at least 2 models) have specs similar to 5D Mark IV and 6D Mark II with a few tweaks and a smart solution for mounting the EF lenses, I think the one that will struggle to keep their market share will be Sony. Not to mention that Nikon also will put some pression on Sony. Don't forget that a lot of ex Canon users who now shoot with Sony still use Canon lenses with their Sony. Those will be tempted to go back to Canon given the fact that thay already have Canon lenses.

[surfar]

Not necessarily. 6D Mark II

What $$$ony equivalent?...there isnt one unless you are categorising by price.

---------- Post added 07-27-18 at 05:00 PM ----------

If the upcoming Canon mirrorless cameras (rummors say that we may see at least 2 models) have specs similar to 5D Mark IV and 6D Mark II with a few tweaks and a smart solution for mounting the EF lenses, I think the one that will struggle to keep their market share will be Sony. Not to mention that Nikon also will put some pression on Sony. Don't forget that a lot of ex Canon users who now shoot with Sony still use Canon lenses with their Sony. Those will be tempted to go back to Canon given the fact that thay already have Canon lenses.

The strongest Canon M/L rumour is for M5 mk ii....the FF stuff isnt strong and i havent see anything about 2 models(whereas Nikon has strong rumours of 2).

[Rondec]

has been hosting the party with her rich cousin Leica occasionally dropping by!

So,CaNik have to come up with a superior product to hurt $$$ony sales and $$$ony have 3rd generation product and a fairly good lens range with Tokina/Tamron/Sigma/Samyang and others in support....the next 18months will be interesting.

You act as though products sold primarily on specifications. If that were the case then maybe Sony would rule the marketplace, but the reality is somewhat different. Canon makes decent products, but as Dan says, they sell quite well and Canon has the market dominance at present.