Nikon mirrorless teaser?

surfar · 08-10-2018, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

Well, a bastard child,

The Apple isle..

I'm a poet and I know it.

**ffking** · 08-11-2018, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by photoptimist

Camera buyers might love the idea of a $1,000 FF camera but that does not mean it's a good idea for the camera makers. Entry level camera can be money losers. It all depends on:

1) the number of lost sales of $4,000 cameras because the $1,000 camera was "good enough."

2) the number of added sales of $4,000 cameras because the $1,000 camera was a stepping stone.

The stepping stone number must be larger than the good enough number. That might be hard to do.

The tricky challenge for the camera maker is in creating an entry level camera that is good enough to make the buyer a fan of the brand but not good enough for their long-term use.

I think I might add one more category (or sub-category) - that is people who would love to own the $4,000 camera but can't afford it who migrate from another brand to buy a $1,000 camera because it is made by the makers of the $4,000 camera that they really want

**Rondec** · 08-11-2018, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by surfar

Sony A7 is less than 1000 U$ now,A9 is down to 4200U$.

It has always struck me as interesting that rather than releasing different level cameras, Sony tends to just keep older cameras around and keep selling them at lower prices. The A7 came out in October 2013 which is really old from a camera standpoint and yet it is still offered new.

rawr · 08-11-2018, 05:14 AM

Pending the actual launch announcement, of course, unless they announce something truly amazing, I think the prospects for Nikon's mirrorless are dim.

Sony has all the full-frame market niches covered already - not just with one camera, but with a whole fleet of bodies still in inventory. Entry-level with the A7, advanced with the A7 III, 'pro' sports shooters with the A9, video folks and low-light shooters with the A7SII, high-def shooting with the A7RIII, plus a complete APS-C lineup. All on one standard lens mount, all with decent video capabilities, plus a good range of compatible lenses for E-mount to suit most of those niches.

Although I guess it's something Nikon feel they need to do for strategic reasons, it's going to be a long and costly struggle for Nikon to make headway against Sony, especially starting with a new lens mount.

surfar · 08-11-2018, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by rawr

Sony has all the full-frame market niches covered already

Yes

Originally posted by rawr

Although I guess it's something Nikon feel they need to do for strategic reasons, it's going to be a long and costly struggle for Nikon to make headway against Sony, especially starting with a new lens mount.

The development from $$$ony has forced the Big Boys into action,whatever Nikon bring to the battle,$$$ony will be prepared.

Most think its a CaNik versus $$$ony war,however there will be some interesting little skirmishes from the little guys and they will grab some of the big players market.Canon has the most to lose so Sept 4/5(depending where on earth you are) may reveal what they have or it'll just be version 2 of the M5.RI may even bring a surprise or maybe thats wishful thinking?

**Rondec** · 08-11-2018, 05:40 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by rawr

Pending the actual launch announcement, of course, unless they announce something truly amazing, I think the prospects for Nikon's mirrorless are dim.

Sony has all the full-frame market niches covered already - not just with one camera, but with a whole fleet of bodies still in inventory. Entry-level with the A7, advanced with the A7 III, 'pro' sports shooters with the A9, video folks and low-light shooters with the A7SII, high-def shooting with the A7RIII, plus a complete APS-C lineup. All on one standard lens mount, all with decent video capabilities, plus a good range of compatible lenses for E-mount to suit most of those niches.

Although I guess it's something Nikon feel they need to do for strategic reasons, it's going to be a long and costly struggle for Nikon to make headway against Sony, especially starting with a new lens mount.

My guess is a lot depends on the glass that Nikon plans to release for the new mount, the pricing on that glass, and how quickly they can fill out a lens portfolio. That's the whole problem with a new lens mount. It may be great in the long run, but short term, if you have to buy an adapter to use your current Nikon lenses, then you may as well purchase a Sony as a Nikon mirrorless camera. Obviously it depends on the cost and functionality of the adapter, but it takes awhile to build up a full lens portfolio.

This was the biggest negative on Sony full frame cameras for years -- the lack of a full lens line up in native lenses -- and even now, they have some holes in specialty areas. Nikon will certainly take a few years before they don't have major gaps and that could be a major drag on camera sales till they get those lenses out.

**ffking** · 08-11-2018, 06:11 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by rawr

Pending the actual launch announcement, of course, unless they announce something truly amazing, I think the prospects for Nikon's mirrorless are dim.

never underestimate brand loyalty

mecrox · 08-11-2018, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by surfar

Yes

The development from $$$ony has forced the Big Boys into action,whatever Nikon bring to the battle,$$$ony will be prepared.

Most think its a CaNik versus $$$ony war,however there will be some interesting little skirmishes from the little guys and they will grab some of the big players market.Canon has the most to lose so Sept 4/5(depending where on earth you are) may reveal what they have or it'll just be version 2 of the M5.RI may even bring a surprise or maybe thats wishful thinking?

I disagree. Sony has the most to lose. Sony currently has the FF mirrorless market all to itself. Soon, Sony will be sharing that same market with two 800lb gorillas. Could be a tight fit.

**ffking** · 08-11-2018, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by mecrox

Sony will be sharing that same market with two 800lb gorillas. Could be a tight fit.

A nice extended metaphor

surfar · 08-11-2018, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by mecrox

I disagree. Sony has the most to lose. Sony currently has the FF mirrorless market all to itself. Soon, Sony will be sharing that same market with two 800lb gorillas. Could be a tight fit.

You can, however if you look at the magnitude of $$$ony as an entity,you may change your view.

reh321 · 08-11-2018, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by surfar

Sony A7 is less than 1000 U$ now,A9 is down to 4200U$.

New current production??

bobmaxja · 08-11-2018, 05:49 PM

Sony will be the loseer.....

**Rondec** · 08-11-2018, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by mecrox

I disagree. Sony has the most to lose. Sony currently has the FF mirrorless market all to itself. Soon, Sony will be sharing that same market with two 800lb gorillas. Could be a tight fit.

Sony will lose some, but it is always tough to be the second or third in a particular market. And Sony has about every tier of full frame mirrorless met with a different level camera at this point. Yes, they will lose some market share to Nikon, but the question is how much Nikon has to invest in order to get that market share. My guess it will be a fair amount and that Sony isn't going to be challenged significantly by Nikon for a couple of years (until native glass is there for the new mount).

surfar · 08-11-2018, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

Sony will lose some,

That remains to be seen, they may not grow as fast as in the last 5/6 years.However,consider the CaNikonians who have put off moving to $$$$ony because of the rumours of the CaNik M/L FFs.IF, the product doesnt come up to $$$ony standard,there could be an acceleration in the $$$ony sales.

In past times the "$ony has no glass" line was bandied around but now the shoes on the other foot.Nik have 3 lenses being released with their FF and 3 to come in 2019( so the word goes). Canon is unknown at this point in time?

$$$ony E mount has tamron/sigma/tokina/samyang support with AF lenses....Nikon Z mount doesnt....I think Nikon has put themselves out there on a limb.It might not break,only time will tell.

---------- Post added 08-12-18 at 12:48 PM ----------

Originally posted by reh321

New current production??

It hasnt been discontinued, development costs are well and truly recovered so it must still be produced.

Pentikonian · 08-13-2018, 01:58 PM

10 days and we find out what Nikon has been developing.

New rumors: Breaking: Nikon Z6 and Z7 full-frame mirrorless cameras and three lenses coming on August 23rd, Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens to be announced later | Nikon Rumors

Return of the Noct-Nikkor? Z-mount 58mm f/0.95 lens - if real and not purely a rumor, I imagine it will be pricey.

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08-10-2018, 12:41 AM	#166
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	Originally posted by RobA_Oz Well, a bastard child, The Apple isle.. I'm a poet and I know it.

08-11-2018, 02:00 AM	#167
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by photoptimist Camera buyers might love the idea of a $1,000 FF camera but that does not mean it's a good idea for the camera makers. Entry level camera can be money losers. It all depends on: 1) the number of lost sales of $4,000 cameras because the $1,000 camera was "good enough." 2) the number of added sales of $4,000 cameras because the $1,000 camera was a stepping stone. The stepping stone number must be larger than the good enough number. That might be hard to do. The tricky challenge for the camera maker is in creating an entry level camera that is good enough to make the buyer a fan of the brand but not good enough for their long-term use. I think I might add one more category (or sub-category) - that is people who would love to own the $4,000 camera but can't afford it who migrate from another brand to buy a $1,000 camera because it is made by the makers of the $4,000 camera that they really want

08-11-2018, 02:36 AM	#168
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by surfar Sony A7 is less than 1000 U$ now,A9 is down to 4200U$. It has always struck me as interesting that rather than releasing different level cameras, Sony tends to just keep older cameras around and keep selling them at lower prices. The A7 came out in October 2013 which is really old from a camera standpoint and yet it is still offered new.

08-11-2018, 05:14 AM	#169
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Pending the actual launch announcement, of course, unless they announce something truly amazing, I think the prospects for Nikon's mirrorless are dim. Sony has all the full-frame market niches covered already - not just with one camera, but with a whole fleet of bodies still in inventory. Entry-level with the A7, advanced with the A7 III, 'pro' sports shooters with the A9, video folks and low-light shooters with the A7SII, high-def shooting with the A7RIII, plus a complete APS-C lineup. All on one standard lens mount, all with decent video capabilities, plus a good range of compatible lenses for E-mount to suit most of those niches. Although I guess it's something Nikon feel they need to do for strategic reasons, it's going to be a long and costly struggle for Nikon to make headway against Sony, especially starting with a new lens mount.

08-11-2018, 05:31 AM	#170
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	Originally posted by rawr Sony has all the full-frame market niches covered already Yes Originally posted by rawr Although I guess it's something Nikon feel they need to do for strategic reasons, it's going to be a long and costly struggle for Nikon to make headway against Sony, especially starting with a new lens mount. The development from $$$ony has forced the Big Boys into action,whatever Nikon bring to the battle,$$$ony will be prepared. Most think its a CaNik versus $$$ony war,however there will be some interesting little skirmishes from the little guys and they will grab some of the big players market.Canon has the most to lose so Sept 4/5(depending where on earth you are) may reveal what they have or it'll just be version 2 of the M5.RI may even bring a surprise or maybe thats wishful thinking?

08-11-2018, 05:40 AM - 1 Like	#171
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by rawr Pending the actual launch announcement, of course, unless they announce something truly amazing, I think the prospects for Nikon's mirrorless are dim. Sony has all the full-frame market niches covered already - not just with one camera, but with a whole fleet of bodies still in inventory. Entry-level with the A7, advanced with the A7 III, 'pro' sports shooters with the A9, video folks and low-light shooters with the A7SII, high-def shooting with the A7RIII, plus a complete APS-C lineup. All on one standard lens mount, all with decent video capabilities, plus a good range of compatible lenses for E-mount to suit most of those niches. Although I guess it's something Nikon feel they need to do for strategic reasons, it's going to be a long and costly struggle for Nikon to make headway against Sony, especially starting with a new lens mount. My guess is a lot depends on the glass that Nikon plans to release for the new mount, the pricing on that glass, and how quickly they can fill out a lens portfolio. That's the whole problem with a new lens mount. It may be great in the long run, but short term, if you have to buy an adapter to use your current Nikon lenses, then you may as well purchase a Sony as a Nikon mirrorless camera. Obviously it depends on the cost and functionality of the adapter, but it takes awhile to build up a full lens portfolio. This was the biggest negative on Sony full frame cameras for years -- the lack of a full lens line up in native lenses -- and even now, they have some holes in specialty areas. Nikon will certainly take a few years before they don't have major gaps and that could be a major drag on camera sales till they get those lenses out.

08-11-2018, 06:11 AM - 1 Like	#172
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by rawr Pending the actual launch announcement, of course, unless they announce something truly amazing, I think the prospects for Nikon's mirrorless are dim. never underestimate brand loyalty

08-11-2018, 09:51 AM	#173
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by surfar Yes The development from $$$ony has forced the Big Boys into action,whatever Nikon bring to the battle,$$$ony will be prepared. Most think its a CaNik versus $$$ony war,however there will be some interesting little skirmishes from the little guys and they will grab some of the big players market.Canon has the most to lose so Sept 4/5(depending where on earth you are) may reveal what they have or it'll just be version 2 of the M5.RI may even bring a surprise or maybe thats wishful thinking? I disagree. Sony has the most to lose. Sony currently has the FF mirrorless market all to itself. Soon, Sony will be sharing that same market with two 800lb gorillas. Could be a tight fit.

08-11-2018, 09:59 AM	#174
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by mecrox Sony will be sharing that same market with two 800lb gorillas. Could be a tight fit. A nice extended metaphor

08-11-2018, 01:42 PM	#175
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	Originally posted by mecrox I disagree. Sony has the most to lose. Sony currently has the FF mirrorless market all to itself. Soon, Sony will be sharing that same market with two 800lb gorillas. Could be a tight fit. You can, however if you look at the magnitude of $$$ony as an entity,you may change your view.

08-11-2018, 05:15 PM	#176
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by surfar Sony A7 is less than 1000 U$ now,A9 is down to 4200U$. New current production??

08-11-2018, 05:49 PM	#177
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	Sony will be the loseer.....

08-11-2018, 06:20 PM	#178
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by mecrox I disagree. Sony has the most to lose. Sony currently has the FF mirrorless market all to itself. Soon, Sony will be sharing that same market with two 800lb gorillas. Could be a tight fit. Sony will lose some, but it is always tough to be the second or third in a particular market. And Sony has about every tier of full frame mirrorless met with a different level camera at this point. Yes, they will lose some market share to Nikon, but the question is how much Nikon has to invest in order to get that market share. My guess it will be a fair amount and that Sony isn't going to be challenged significantly by Nikon for a couple of years (until native glass is there for the new mount).

08-11-2018, 06:46 PM	#179
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	Originally posted by Rondec Sony will lose some, That remains to be seen, they may not grow as fast as in the last 5/6 years.However,consider the CaNikonians who have put off moving to $$$$ony because of the rumours of the CaNik M/L FFs.IF, the product doesnt come up to $$$ony standard,there could be an acceleration in the $$$ony sales. In past times the "$ony has no glass" line was bandied around but now the shoes on the other foot.Nik have 3 lenses being released with their FF and 3 to come in 2019( so the word goes). Canon is unknown at this point in time? $$$ony E mount has tamron/sigma/tokina/samyang support with AF lenses....Nikon Z mount doesnt....I think Nikon has put themselves out there on a limb.It might not break,only time will tell. ---------- Post added 08-12-18 at 12:48 PM ---------- Originally posted by reh321 New current production?? It hasnt been discontinued, development costs are well and truly recovered so it must still be produced.

08-13-2018, 01:58 PM	#180
Pentikonian Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 780	10 days and we find out what Nikon has been developing. New rumors: Breaking: Nikon Z6 and Z7 full-frame mirrorless cameras and three lenses coming on August 23rd, Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens to be announced later \| Nikon Rumors Return of the Noct-Nikkor? Z-mount 58mm f/0.95 lens - if real and not purely a rumor, I imagine it will be pricey.