Let the WAR begin!...no Nukes yet.

**ffking** · 08-18-2018, 10:29 AM

Yuh - I watched the Northrups a few days ago. I do think that Tony N has bought into the Pentax is Doomed story, and the unfortunate thing is that he has a million subscribers who might believe him - when you reach a certain level of influence - and I'm not saying he's there yet - your prophesies start to be self-fulfilling

Last edited by ffking; 08-18-2018 at 11:32 AM.

**Rondec** · 08-18-2018, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by surfar

And $$$ony claim to lead FF in USA

Breaking: Sony Is Now Number One Overall in U.S. Full-Frame Camera Market, Celebrates With New 'Alpha Female' Program | Fstoppers

The question with all of these is how big is the overall full frame market and secondarily, what percentage of Sony's sales are A9s and what percentage or discount A7s and such like (on which they are scarcely turning a profit). I don't have the answers to any of these, but if your path to high sales is sell at highly discounted prices, then your revenue isn't necessarily awesome, even if your units are.

(My guess is that Sony is claiming to be number one in full frame units sold, not in terms of revenue generated from full frame cameras).

altopiet · 08-18-2018, 11:22 AM

Mirrorless vs DSLR Cameras - Which One is Better and Why

"Price: producing mirrorless cameras is much cheaper than producing DSLRs. As of today, most mirrorless camera manufacturers charge heavy premiums for their camera systems, because their overall costs are high. While the actual manufacturing costs are lower than DSLRs, companies have to spend plenty of R&D money on improving autofocus performance and other technologies like EVF. Plus, since mirrorless cameras are relatively new, companies have to increase their marketing budgets to educate people. Overtime, however, prices of mirrorless cameras will drop to lower levels than even entry-level DSLRs."

**Rondec** · 08-18-2018, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by altopiet

Mirrorless vs DSLR Cameras - Which One is Better and Why

"Price: producing mirrorless cameras is much cheaper than producing DSLRs. As of today, most mirrorless camera manufacturers charge heavy premiums for their camera systems, because their overall costs are high. While the actual manufacturing costs are lower than DSLRs, companies have to spend plenty of R&D money on improving autofocus performance and other technologies like EVF. Plus, since mirrorless cameras are relatively new, companies have to increase their marketing budgets to educate people. Overtime, however, prices of mirrorless cameras will drop to lower levels than even entry-level DSLRs."

I think the hard thing is that the cost of EVFs depends greatly on the quality of the EVF. The high end ones with minimal lag require a faster sensor read out than is required for standard SLRs and cost quite a bit more. Nearly all components of cameras come down in price over time. SLRs may cost a little more to assemble, but certainly the difference in cost hasn't been huge to this point.

neokind · 08-18-2018, 12:41 PM

I saw the video when it launched. Besides the typical YT presentation and bombast, I have no reason to doubt the substance of their argument for MILC taking over the DSLR market. The tech and its advantages have just become too persuasive. It convinced me enough to change over.

surfar · 08-19-2018, 04:44 AM

Youtu.be

Yes,its war ON!

**ffking** · 08-19-2018, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by surfar

Yes,its war ON!

Nice to sit back and watch - I don't think that guy said anything people here couldn't have, but interesting how much attention the forthcoming battle is getting

surfar · 08-19-2018, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by ffking

but interesting how

August 23 has turned from 1 event(Nikons) to a trifecta.

DJI announce a upgraded Drone and Pana(who?)sonic have some little things to Spruik!

Its a bigger day than anticipated,however i think most of the attention will go to Nikon.

---------- Post added 08-19-18 at 11:47 PM ----------

Youtu.be

**ffking** · 08-19-2018, 06:09 AM

Youtu.be

One mount to rule them all...

surfar · 08-20-2018, 02:08 AM

the next tease

Youtu.be

biz-engineer · 08-20-2018, 02:12 AM

This all means that there is and will be a lot of media advertising the mirrorless way, if Canon join as well, that will help build a lot of momentum for mirrorless. No matter right or wrong, DSLR will lose ground, simply due to the money being spent to influence users to switch to mirrorless. That's a case of the rationality of engineering that fails against marketing.

**Rondec** · 08-20-2018, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

This all means that there is and will be a lot of media advertising the mirrorless way, if Canon join as well, that will help build a lot of momentum for mirrorless. No matter right or wrong, DSLR will lose ground, simply due to the money being spent to influence users to switch to mirrorless. That's a case of the rationality of engineering that fails against marketing.

Maybe so, although I would say that with Nikon's cheapest mirrorless camera coming in at two thousand dollars, they will still sell a lot more SLRs than mirrorless cameras. It is a bit odd that they aren't releasing an APS-C mirrorless and instead are targeting a bit higher end.

surfar · 08-20-2018, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

DSLR will lose ground,

Well,the reality is they have already lost it...compare the CIPA numbers of Dslrs sold at the peak in 2012 to 2017.They are quite "different".

biz-engineer · 08-20-2018, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by surfar

Well,the reality is they have already lost it...compare the CIPA numbers of Dslrs sold at the peak in 2012 to 2017.They are quite "different".

Canon and Nikon still dominate on full frame sensor sales. Now, if Canon and Nikon offer mirrorless as well, a lot of customers will have the choice to stay with their favorite brand or switch to Sony. If Canon and Nikon offer backward compatibility with DSLR lenses, Sony sales will stagnate. Interest for me is why it took so much time for Nikon and Canon to react, although we don't know what Canon will do.

surfar · 08-20-2018, 03:01 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

although we don't know what Canon will do.

They have to join in, they cant let Nikon take customers.Canon have the most to lose.

It will be really interesting because Canon have saved their top features for their top end bodies,but now they have to at least match Nikony.

Sony are prepared,everybody is talking up the CaNik FF M/L entry....minor bombs in the battle....$$$ony have the Nuke up their sleeve,wont be too long and they will use it.

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08-18-2018, 10:29 AM	#16
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Llanelli, Wales Posts: 5,227	Yuh - I watched the Northrups a few days ago. I do think that Tony N has bought into the Pentax is Doomed story, and the unfortunate thing is that he has a million subscribers who might believe him - when you reach a certain level of influence - and I'm not saying he's there yet - your prophesies start to be self-fulfilling Last edited by ffking; 08-18-2018 at 11:32 AM.

08-18-2018, 10:32 AM	#17
Rondec Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 23,010	Originally posted by surfar And $$$ony claim to lead FF in USA Breaking: Sony Is Now Number One Overall in U.S. Full-Frame Camera Market, Celebrates With New 'Alpha Female' Program \| Fstoppers The question with all of these is how big is the overall full frame market and secondarily, what percentage of Sony's sales are A9s and what percentage or discount A7s and such like (on which they are scarcely turning a profit). I don't have the answers to any of these, but if your path to high sales is sell at highly discounted prices, then your revenue isn't necessarily awesome, even if your units are. (My guess is that Sony is claiming to be number one in full frame units sold, not in terms of revenue generated from full frame cameras).

08-18-2018, 11:22 AM	#18
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	Mirrorless vs DSLR Cameras - Which One is Better and Why "Price: producing mirrorless cameras is much cheaper than producing DSLRs. As of today, most mirrorless camera manufacturers charge heavy premiums for their camera systems, because their overall costs are high. While the actual manufacturing costs are lower than DSLRs, companies have to spend plenty of R&D money on improving autofocus performance and other technologies like EVF. Plus, since mirrorless cameras are relatively new, companies have to increase their marketing budgets to educate people. Overtime, however, prices of mirrorless cameras will drop to lower levels than even entry-level DSLRs."

08-18-2018, 11:36 AM	#19
Rondec Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 23,010	Originally posted by altopiet Mirrorless vs DSLR Cameras - Which One is Better and Why "Price: producing mirrorless cameras is much cheaper than producing DSLRs. As of today, most mirrorless camera manufacturers charge heavy premiums for their camera systems, because their overall costs are high. While the actual manufacturing costs are lower than DSLRs, companies have to spend plenty of R&D money on improving autofocus performance and other technologies like EVF. Plus, since mirrorless cameras are relatively new, companies have to increase their marketing budgets to educate people. Overtime, however, prices of mirrorless cameras will drop to lower levels than even entry-level DSLRs." I think the hard thing is that the cost of EVFs depends greatly on the quality of the EVF. The high end ones with minimal lag require a faster sensor read out than is required for standard SLRs and cost quite a bit more. Nearly all components of cameras come down in price over time. SLRs may cost a little more to assemble, but certainly the difference in cost hasn't been huge to this point.

08-18-2018, 12:41 PM	#20
neokind Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sunny San Diego Posts: 330	I saw the video when it launched. Besides the typical YT presentation and bombast, I have no reason to doubt the substance of their argument for MILC taking over the DSLR market. The tech and its advantages have just become too persuasive. It convinced me enough to change over.

08-19-2018, 04:54 AM	#22
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Llanelli, Wales Posts: 5,227	Originally posted by surfar Yes,its war ON! Nice to sit back and watch - I don't think that guy said anything people here couldn't have, but interesting how much attention the forthcoming battle is getting

08-19-2018, 06:09 AM	#24
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Llanelli, Wales Posts: 5,227	Youtu.be One mount to rule them all...

08-20-2018, 02:12 AM	#26
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,268	This all means that there is and will be a lot of media advertising the mirrorless way, if Canon join as well, that will help build a lot of momentum for mirrorless. No matter right or wrong, DSLR will lose ground, simply due to the money being spent to influence users to switch to mirrorless. That's a case of the rationality of engineering that fails against marketing.

08-20-2018, 02:28 AM	#27
Rondec Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 23,010	Originally posted by biz-engineer This all means that there is and will be a lot of media advertising the mirrorless way, if Canon join as well, that will help build a lot of momentum for mirrorless. No matter right or wrong, DSLR will lose ground, simply due to the money being spent to influence users to switch to mirrorless. That's a case of the rationality of engineering that fails against marketing. Maybe so, although I would say that with Nikon's cheapest mirrorless camera coming in at two thousand dollars, they will still sell a lot more SLRs than mirrorless cameras. It is a bit odd that they aren't releasing an APS-C mirrorless and instead are targeting a bit higher end.

08-20-2018, 02:30 AM	#28
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,486 Original Poster	Originally posted by biz-engineer DSLR will lose ground, Well,the reality is they have already lost it...compare the CIPA numbers of Dslrs sold at the peak in 2012 to 2017.They are quite "different".

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08-20-2018, 02:50 AM	#29
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,268	Originally posted by surfar Well,the reality is they have already lost it...compare the CIPA numbers of Dslrs sold at the peak in 2012 to 2017.They are quite "different". Canon and Nikon still dominate on full frame sensor sales. Now, if Canon and Nikon offer mirrorless as well, a lot of customers will have the choice to stay with their favorite brand or switch to Sony. If Canon and Nikon offer backward compatibility with DSLR lenses, Sony sales will stagnate. Interest for me is why it took so much time for Nikon and Canon to react, although we don't know what Canon will do.

08-20-2018, 03:01 AM	#30
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,486 Original Poster	Originally posted by biz-engineer although we don't know what Canon will do. They have to join in, they cant let Nikon take customers.Canon have the most to lose. It will be really interesting because Canon have saved their top features for their top end bodies,but now they have to at least match Nikony. Sony are prepared,everybody is talking up the CaNik FF M/L entry....minor bombs in the battle....$$$ony have the Nuke up their sleeve,wont be too long and they will use it.