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08-15-2018, 11:41 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Ha Ha,Yes...but i was referring to the camera(2013) not you...once again posts get misinterpreted!
Oh, I knew what you meant for some reason there's this thing you have in your posts, certainly about consumer electronics, that they stop working or something, that old things have to be replaced.

It's a curious attitude from a senior citizen who should know that's not true.

08-15-2018, 11:54 PM - 2 Likes   #17
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Well...as a hardcore Pentaxian...because Pentax/Ricoh has ignored video...I use an A7RII, A7SII, A6500 and of course my FS5 and FS7.

I would have LOVED to use more Pentax/Ricoh in my workflow, but alas...someone over at Pentax/Ricoh is listening to the wrong people by not doing more in the video world.

So my dollars went to Sony...when I could have bought more Pentax (and I WOULD have).

When it comes to Sony A7 series cameras...there are some real-world benefits of having that electronic viewfinder. Things like DMF (Direct Manual Focus) or having buttons on the Sony lenses that can be mapped to do things. Like being able to adapt pretty much any lens to a Sony body.

I'm not a big Sony fan...but they really do have some awesome features that are direct results of being mirror-less.
08-16-2018, 12:35 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
Well...as a hardcore Pentaxian...because Pentax/Ricoh has ignored video...I use an A7RII, A7SII, A6500 and of course my FS5 and FS7.

I would have LOVED to use more Pentax/Ricoh in my workflow, but alas...someone over at Pentax/Ricoh is listening to the wrong people by not doing more in the video world.

So my dollars went to Sony...when I could have bought more Pentax (and I WOULD have).

When it comes to Sony A7 series cameras...there are some real-world benefits of having that electronic viewfinder. Things like DMF (Direct Manual Focus) or having buttons on the Sony lenses that can be mapped to do things. Like being able to adapt pretty much any lens to a Sony body.

I'm not a big Sony fan...but they really do have some awesome features that are direct results of being mirror-less.
Portability rather than video made me look at Sony, Lauren, and I bought a NEX-3 and a NEX-7 because of the hiking, running, cycling and kayaking I do. I bought lenses to support them, too … all three of the (good) small f2.8 primes Sigma made for them, the 10-18 Sony, and Canon EF lenses and autofocus adapter.

But to be honest, I bought a Pentax K-S2 a while ago off Sandy Hancock which is compact anyway and I tend to use that instead of them these days. It just fits in beautifully with everything else I've got.

As a result, over the years, the keepers in my Flickr (below) are almost entirely Pentax.

Last edited by clackers; 08-16-2018 at 12:43 AM.
08-16-2018, 02:12 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
So, if Pentax followed this strategy, instead of selling K-70, KP, and K-3ii, they would be selling K-5ii, K-3, and K-3ii, each new??
Basically, yes...

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I wonder how that would work?
Ricoh Imaging (and Hoya before it) chose a more traditional route in offering several models at various price points, much like Canon and Nikon - but I like to think it did so with a bit more flair, giving each model a distinct character and features associated with more expensive equipment. I don't think that's a better or worse approach than Sony - it's just different.

08-16-2018, 02:33 AM   #20
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The Sony Alpha a7 is listed at less than US$800. That is a bargain basement FF body. Ricoh could drop a FF sensor into the K-01 and probably do it for less than that. I think they would be flat out keeping up with demand. And I doubt it would cut into K-1 sales. I suspect it would be a pathway that would lead to increased Pentax FF sales in the K-1 line.
08-16-2018, 02:34 AM   #21
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Sony at the moment is about (an impression of) sweeping all before it momentum - when the big boys step into the same ring, we'll see how much of that is just marketing.

[I don't have a dog in this fight - other than believing that fair competition between brands is good for photographers - I'm genuinely just interested to see]


Incidentally, it quite amusing to see the arguments raging on DPR on this, as a disinterested observer.

Northrup, on the other hand, takes the mirrorless wars as another opportunity for a Pentax is Doomed jibe - he's become a bit of a Sony fan altogether
08-16-2018, 02:35 AM   #22
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When these numbers come out, I wonder what percentage of photographers using ILCs are using a given brand. I believe that Sony is still far back as far as cameras in use, even if they are selling more in a given year. When I go out, I watch for what cameras are in use. Most people are using cell phones of course, but of those using ILCs, Canon APS-C followed by Nikon APS-C is what I see (and an occasional Canon full frame). I have seen a few Sony cameras, but I really don't see many at all.

It could be that Sony just doesn't sell many cameras in Virginia, but I think the bigger thing is that people are using older cameras longer and not upgrading and so while they haven't switched brands, they haven't purchased new either. When they do eventually get a new camera, they won't change brands, but it is longer between upgrades for them.

08-16-2018, 02:55 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
When these numbers come out, I wonder what percentage of photographers using ILCs are using a given brand. I believe that Sony is still far back as far as cameras in use, even if they are selling more in a given year. When I go out, I watch for what cameras are in use. Most people are using cell phones of course, but of those using ILCs, Canon APS-C followed by Nikon APS-C is what I see (and an occasional Canon full frame). I have seen a few Sony cameras, but I really don't see many at all.

It could be that Sony just doesn't sell many cameras in Virginia, but I think the bigger thing is that people are using older cameras longer and not upgrading and so while they haven't switched brands, they haven't purchased new either. When they do eventually get a new camera, they won't change brands, but it is longer between upgrades for them.
People do tend to be reluctant to buy the latest and greatest, because improvement pace has slow down in DSLR. They are good enought for most people for few years now.

Sony strategy is to flood the market and have the big boys get their finance a bit shaken. Push the Sony choice every time someone want to get a new body. Or even second hand body.
Seems to work so far.

And then you sell expensive lenses !
08-16-2018, 03:12 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
The Sony Alpha a7 is listed at less than US$800. That is a bargain basement FF body.
Indeed, and I'd like to bet it's the older models that still make up a large portion of Sony's sales. When you're paying less than the cost of mid-range APS-C DSLR for a full-frame camera, you'll forgive an awful lot. No matter what criticisms people may level at the old A7, they're fully countered by the price. The same goes for the A7 MkII that I own, which was inexpensive when I bought it, and is even cheaper now...
08-16-2018, 03:20 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
People do tend to be reluctant to buy the latest and greatest, because improvement pace has slow down in DSLR. They are good enought for most people for few years now.

Sony strategy is to flood the market and have the big boys get their finance a bit shaken. Push the Sony choice every time someone want to get a new body. Or even second hand body.
Seems to work so far.

And then you sell expensive lenses !
Sony has the highest tech in the market place. Fastest frame rates, most auto focus points and if you are chasing specs, then Sony will turn out a new camera for you every year or so. But if you are a hobby photographer, or even a working professional (non sports), then most any camera in the market right now will be fine. My wife shoots weddings with a K-1 and K-1 II. Terrible, I know, but other than wishing for a bigger buffer, she really doesn't want anything more than what they offer. If Pentax came out with a new full frame tomorrow with 4K video and 9 fps, I don't know that we would be buying one very quickly, the K-1 is just that good.

Anyway, clearly Sony is riding high, as their users are very ready to buy new gear and that puts money back in R and D, whereas Canon and Nikon photographers are a bit more conservative and buy new gear when they think they need it.
08-16-2018, 03:36 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Anyway, clearly Sony is riding high, as their users are very ready to buy new gear and that puts money back in R and D, whereas Canon and Nikon photographers are a bit more conservative and buy new gear when they think they need it.
Agreed, but I wonder how sustainable Sony's current position is.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I'd guess that quite a lot of its sales are for the older models (EDIT: ... and there can't be a great deal of profit in those, given the discounted pricing). My A7 MkII is long since overtaken by newer, far-more-capable models like the A7 MkIII and A9, but it's good enough for me... I really don't need anything more. If it died tomorrow, I'd go out and buy another MkII... Spending all that extra money on one of the newer models would be money wasted, given my relatively-modest requirements.

I suspect every brand is going to experience the same issue at some point... Their current and out-going cameras are all so good that they'll have an increasingly tough time convincing people to spend a lot more money on the latest whizz-bang models.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 08-16-2018 at 03:45 AM.
08-16-2018, 03:58 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Oh, I knew what you meant … for some reason there's this thing you have in your posts, certainly about consumer electronics, that they stop working or something, that old things have to be replaced.
Oh good, once again,the impression your mind perceives...is just that.I buy "old" tech at discounted prices compared to new,when it pops up.Just recently i bought 2(same model) camera bodies that were released in 2012.They were good back then and my opinion is they are GOOD right now.(and great bang for buck)Its just that more recent development are better.You've heard the old cliche...Dont judge a surfar by its cover!

---------- Post added 08-16-18 at 10:36 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If Pentax came out with a new full frame tomorrow with 4K video and 9 fps, I
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
would be buying one very quickly
Thats exactly whats required,as long as it can AF in stills and video(not like the D850).
08-16-2018, 06:16 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Agreed, but I wonder how sustainable Sony's current position is.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I'd guess that quite a lot of its sales are for the older models (EDIT: ... and there can't be a great deal of profit in those, given the discounted pricing). My A7 MkII is long since overtaken by newer, far-more-capable models like the A7 MkIII and A9, but it's good enough for me... I really don't need anything more. If it died tomorrow, I'd go out and buy another MkII... Spending all that extra money on one of the newer models would be money wasted, given my relatively-modest requirements.

I suspect every brand is going to experience the same issue at some point... Their current and out-going cameras are all so good that they'll have an increasingly tough time convincing people to spend a lot more money on the latest whizz-bang models.
I just don't now where Sony goes from here. 50 megapixel cameras with 20 frames per second? 8K video, I guess. But if you own an A9, why would you buy another camera any time soon, unless you drop yours in the Atlantic, by accident?
08-16-2018, 06:19 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
unless you drop yours in the Atlantic, by accident?
or it gets splashed

Last edited by ffking; 08-16-2018 at 06:40 AM.
08-16-2018, 07:23 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
or it gets splashed
did your camera get splashed? I thought I was the only one that killed 2 pentax cameras in the water . Fortunately square trade covered. Lost a 77mm lens though

To be fair I spend almost all my free time in the water
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