Nikon Z6/Z7

**pres589** · 08-23-2018, 02:47 PM - **1 Like**

How many truly small lenses are out there for full frame mirrorless cameras? I'm talking FA 43 or DA 21-esque pancakes. Or even something like the F 28. Everything seems so large.

Maybe we're just spoiled here in k-mount land.

---------- Post added 08-23-18 at 04:49 PM ----------

Originally posted by normhead

Way to expensive. My K-1 was pretty much a gift. I normally don't pay that much for a camera. The Zs are even more.

Oh yeah. The Z's are going to be crazy for most people to consider. I wonder how this is going to play out.

reh321 · 08-23-2018, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by pres589

Oh yeah. The Z's are going to be crazy for most people to consider. I wonder how this is going to play out.

To my eyes, the Z7 is similar to the D850 in both specs and price. D850's are still on waiting lists. I don't know what conclusion to reach.

rawr · 08-23-2018, 07:10 PM - **1 Like**

I like the new 'Focus shift shooting' feature they have added to the z6/z7 menu:

"Set the number of shots, focus step width (the amount of shifted focus distance with each shot) and interval between shots".

3rd party software is still required to combine the stack, however. Not done in camera.

This capability could be added to a Pentax firmware update easily enough, methinks.

Alizarine · 08-24-2018, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by reh321

Shift?? Have they discontinued the D850, D750, D500, D7500, D7200, or any of the lesser cameras?

As far as I know, this is just two products added to their line.

Right now, of course not. But if the trend proves itself and the Z's start selling more than the DSLR line, eventually it may come. It may be looking too far ahead, but for one of the big players to lower their pride (inb4 they were saying that mirrorless is an alternative but not the future, hence stuck with their tried-and-tested formulae even as Sony innovated with the NEX and aX/aXXXX series), does say something . Again, only if the sales trend went much brighter for the Z than the F mount.

In terms of size, I think the Zs and its system given how big the mount diameter is... kind of defeats the first "advantage" the MILC faithful have paraded in its early days (thinner, lighter, etc). I wonder how their pancake lenses would look like in the future. Even that 50mm f1.8 S seems larger than the average lens.

**LaurenOE** · 08-24-2018, 12:29 AM

I never thought I'd be able to use a Pentax lens on a Nikon...now its just a matter of time until that happens...Novoflex? Are you listening?

**Rondec** · 08-24-2018, 03:01 AM

Originally posted by reh321

The Z's could be good street shooting cameras with small lenses.

I believe Kerrowdown does street shooting with small lenses mounted on a K-1, but a better solution would be to mount them on a KP, which is somewhat smaller, and also has a flip-down LCD - a K-01 with a flip-down LCD would be even better, but there is no such thing.

But what small lenses?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this strategy from Nikon at all. They release a camera, basically with a 24-70 f4 lens that is pretty decent sized and a 58mm (really fast) manual focus lens that isn't small, and a 35mm f1.8 that is priced at 850 dollars. I'm sure Nikon has small-ish lenses in the F mount line up, but combined with the adapter they certainly won't be svelte. The camera itself is 300 grams smaller than the D850 and has similar functionality. And the price is anything but small.

You and others keep claiming that this is "the doorway to mirrorless" for Nikon users. I suppose it is in a sense, but I can only imagine what would happen to this Forum if Pentax released a similar camera with these lenses, this price, and an adapter that did not keep functionality for screw driven lenses. I just don't know that most folks, except those that are really fixed on video or EVFs, would be jumping up and down with joy, even if this was a gateway to the world of mirrorless.

repaap · 08-24-2018, 07:20 AM

It will be interesting to see if this will be THE change of MILC cameras taking over old DSLR everyone has been saying last 5 yrs. Or so. Really interesting. If Nikon is going to make success, then it might turn tables.

About those new lenses size. To my untrained mechanical eye it looks like they have just welded that adapter to old tech DSLR lenses to make them work in new camera. It might be that there are fatter lenses coming down the pipe(good news for MILC 645 cameras, in order toget fast lenses adapted..)

Scintilla · 08-24-2018, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by pres589

How many truly small lenses are out there for full frame mirrorless cameras? I'm talking FA 43 or DA 21-esque pancakes. Or even something like the F 28. Everything seems so large.

Maybe we're just spoiled here in k-mount land.

Since I'm curious about this too, here's what I came up with:

Samyang AF 24/2.8 FE -- pancake
Samyang AF 35/2.8 FE -- pancake
Voigtländer VM 40/2.8 Heliar -- pancake (but manual focus only)

Sony FE 28/2 -- 200g, 49mm filters -- not pancake but still small and light
Zony Sonnar FE 35/2.8 ZA -- 120g, 49mm filters -- nearly pancake
Sony FE 50/1.8 -- 186g, 49mm filters -- not pancake but in line with SLR nifty fifties

Zeiss Loxia 21/2.8 -- 394g, 52mm filters -- not that light, but way smaller than 21/2.8s for DSLRs

And if you don't mind getting away from the established names, Handevision has their Iberit line that seems committed to the philosophy of small size, modest aperture, and metal construction, though none of them are really pancakes (the 35/2.4 probably comes closest). And then of course there's the new Meyer-Optik Görlitz with all their horrendously expensive pancakes.

---------- Post added 08-24-18 at 10:33 AM ----------

Originally posted by repaap

About those new lenses size. To my untrained mechanical eye it looks like they have just welded that adapter to old tech DSLR lenses to make them work in new camera.

Doesn't look like it. The 50/1.8 S, besides being almost as big as the 24-70/4 S when seen side-by-side, also is claimed to have 12 elements in 9 groups and weigh 415g, both more than any existing 50/1.8 for DSLRs that I know of.

repaap · 08-24-2018, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Scintilla

---------- Post added 08-24-18 at 10:33 AM ----------

[/COLOR]
Doesn't look like it. The 50/1.8 S, besides being almost as big as the 24-70/4 S when seen side-by-side, also is claimed to have 12 elements in 9 groups and weigh 415g, both more than any existing 50/1.8 for DSLRs that I know of.

Well, I said to my untrained eye. That old 50 1.8 G needed update anyway. Just looked up one review, as predicted, this is counter strike to Sony. Some thngs are better, some not as good. But yea. It will be interesting to see where this goes.

rawr · 08-24-2018, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by repaap

this is counter strike to Sony.

I expect we will soon see Canon join the fray, and open another front against Sony in this FF mirrorless war.

repaap · 08-24-2018, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by rawr

I expect we will soon see Canon join the fray, and open another front against Sony in this FF mirrorless war.

Well they better. Lot of videographers that I have seen with white zooms(Canon), are equiped with Sony. Canon has really good video department, but do they want to cannibalize it?. That will be interesting, all in all Sony has been having fun all alone so far. (now Ricoh has great opportunity to give great FF and aps-c when lot of people figures that grass is not greener on the other side. Machines might be better, but all in all it is skill of getting right place right time and knowing what you are doing..)

reh321 · 08-24-2018, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by rawr

I expect we will soon see Canon join the fray, and open another front against Sony in this FF mirrorless war.

Canon already has their EOS-M series, which has been a learning experience for them; apparently Canon is already the leading supplier of MILC in Japan. People here seem to ignore APS-C, but APS-C has always been important to Canon who remains the largest supplier of true cameras {non smart phone}.

biz-engineer · 08-25-2018, 09:37 AM

I've compared shots at 100% zoom from the Pentax K1 f8, 37mm and the Nikon Z7 with the 24-70 S, both lenses set at f8, 40mm, and interestingly the K1 image contains more details, so I suspect the Z7 to suffer from a significant amount of shutter shock or whatever it is, I don't know. Surprisingly the 36Mp image is better than the 45Mp image.

kooks · 08-25-2018, 10:16 AM

Looks like even the reviewers dont like that much this camera.. not a good play for Nikon, the thing is that any manufacture that joins the mirrorless world will have to compete head by head with Sony or Fuji, and that is hard.. very hard cuz if the camera dont match what they got it will happen what is happeing now, bad publicity everywhere.

You Tube

**Rondec** · 08-25-2018, 10:33 AM

On one hand you have folks saying that it doesn't really matter what you release, you just have to release something mirrorless to enter that market. On the other hand, we can clearly see that if you release something that isn't a spec monster with killer auto focus, top end video and all the other bells and whistles, then you will be slammed in the market.

If Pentax would release a mirrorless, they would need to figure out a niche that didn't match up directly against Fuji and Sony and now Nikon offerings because they aren't a tech company, they are a photography and glass company.

08-24-2018, 07:27 AM	#53
Scintilla Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 347	Originally posted by pres589 How many truly small lenses are out there for full frame mirrorless cameras? I'm talking FA 43 or DA 21-esque pancakes. Or even something like the F 28. Everything seems so large. Maybe we're just spoiled here in k-mount land. Since I'm curious about this too, here's what I came up with: Samyang AF 24/2.8 FE -- pancake Samyang AF 35/2.8 FE -- pancake Voigtländer VM 40/2.8 Heliar -- pancake (but manual focus only) Sony FE 28/2 -- 200g, 49mm filters -- not pancake but still small and light Zony Sonnar FE 35/2.8 ZA -- 120g, 49mm filters -- nearly pancake Sony FE 50/1.8 -- 186g, 49mm filters -- not pancake but in line with SLR nifty fifties Zeiss Loxia 21/2.8 -- 394g, 52mm filters -- not that light, but way smaller than 21/2.8s for DSLRs And if you don't mind getting away from the established names, Handevision has their Iberit line that seems committed to the philosophy of small size, modest aperture, and metal construction, though none of them are really pancakes (the 35/2.4 probably comes closest). And then of course there's the new Meyer-Optik Görlitz with all their horrendously expensive pancakes. ---------- Post added 08-24-18 at 10:33 AM ---------- Originally posted by repaap About those new lenses size. To my untrained mechanical eye it looks like they have just welded that adapter to old tech DSLR lenses to make them work in new camera. Doesn't look like it. The 50/1.8 S, besides being almost as big as the 24-70/4 S when seen side-by-side, also is claimed to have 12 elements in 9 groups and weigh 415g, both more than any existing 50/1.8 for DSLRs that I know of. Last edited by Scintilla; 08-24-2018 at 07:34 AM. Reason: Added link to B&H product page to back up assertion on specs; removed extra blank lines

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08-23-2018, 02:47 PM - 1 Like	#46
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	How many truly small lenses are out there for full frame mirrorless cameras? I'm talking FA 43 or DA 21-esque pancakes. Or even something like the F 28. Everything seems so large. Maybe we're just spoiled here in k-mount land. ---------- Post added 08-23-18 at 04:49 PM ---------- Originally posted by normhead Way to expensive. My K-1 was pretty much a gift. I normally don't pay that much for a camera. The Zs are even more. Oh yeah. The Z's are going to be crazy for most people to consider. I wonder how this is going to play out.

08-23-2018, 04:55 PM	#47
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,179	Originally posted by pres589 Oh yeah. The Z's are going to be crazy for most people to consider. I wonder how this is going to play out. To my eyes, the Z7 is similar to the D850 in both specs and price. D850's are still on waiting lists. I don't know what conclusion to reach.

08-23-2018, 07:10 PM - 1 Like	#48
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	I like the new 'Focus shift shooting' feature they have added to the z6/z7 menu: "Set the number of shots, focus step width (the amount of shifted focus distance with each shot) and interval between shots". 3rd party software is still required to combine the stack, however. Not done in camera. This capability could be added to a Pentax firmware update easily enough, methinks.

08-24-2018, 12:25 AM	#49
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Originally posted by reh321 Shift?? Have they discontinued the D850, D750, D500, D7500, D7200, or any of the lesser cameras? As far as I know, this is just two products added to their line. Right now, of course not. But if the trend proves itself and the Z's start selling more than the DSLR line, eventually it may come. It may be looking too far ahead, but for one of the big players to lower their pride (inb4 they were saying that mirrorless is an alternative but not the future, hence stuck with their tried-and-tested formulae even as Sony innovated with the NEX and aX/aXXXX series), does say something . Again, only if the sales trend went much brighter for the Z than the F mount. In terms of size, I think the Zs and its system given how big the mount diameter is... kind of defeats the first "advantage" the MILC faithful have paraded in its early days (thinner, lighter, etc). I wonder how their pancake lenses would look like in the future. Even that 50mm f1.8 S seems larger than the average lens.

08-24-2018, 12:29 AM	#50
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	I never thought I'd be able to use a Pentax lens on a Nikon...now its just a matter of time until that happens...Novoflex? Are you listening?

08-24-2018, 03:01 AM	#51
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by reh321 The Z's could be good street shooting cameras with small lenses. I believe Kerrowdown does street shooting with small lenses mounted on a K-1, but a better solution would be to mount them on a KP, which is somewhat smaller, and also has a flip-down LCD - a K-01 with a flip-down LCD would be even better, but there is no such thing. But what small lenses? I'm sorry, but I don't understand this strategy from Nikon at all. They release a camera, basically with a 24-70 f4 lens that is pretty decent sized and a 58mm (really fast) manual focus lens that isn't small, and a 35mm f1.8 that is priced at 850 dollars. I'm sure Nikon has small-ish lenses in the F mount line up, but combined with the adapter they certainly won't be svelte. The camera itself is 300 grams smaller than the D850 and has similar functionality. And the price is anything but small. You and others keep claiming that this is "the doorway to mirrorless" for Nikon users. I suppose it is in a sense, but I can only imagine what would happen to this Forum if Pentax released a similar camera with these lenses, this price, and an adapter that did not keep functionality for screw driven lenses. I just don't know that most folks, except those that are really fixed on video or EVFs, would be jumping up and down with joy, even if this was a gateway to the world of mirrorless.

08-24-2018, 07:20 AM	#52
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	It will be interesting to see if this will be THE change of MILC cameras taking over old DSLR everyone has been saying last 5 yrs. Or so. Really interesting. If Nikon is going to make success, then it might turn tables. About those new lenses size. To my untrained mechanical eye it looks like they have just welded that adapter to old tech DSLR lenses to make them work in new camera. It might be that there are fatter lenses coming down the pipe(good news for MILC 645 cameras, in order toget fast lenses adapted..)

08-24-2018, 08:07 AM	#54
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Originally posted by Scintilla ---------- Post added 08-24-18 at 10:33 AM ---------- [/COLOR] Doesn't look like it. The 50/1.8 S, besides being almost as big as the 24-70/4 S when seen side-by-side, also is claimed to have 12 elements in 9 groups and weigh 415g, both more than any existing 50/1.8 for DSLRs that I know of. Well, I said to my untrained eye. That old 50 1.8 G needed update anyway. Just looked up one review, as predicted, this is counter strike to Sony. Some thngs are better, some not as good. But yea. It will be interesting to see where this goes.

08-24-2018, 10:40 AM	#55
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by repaap this is counter strike to Sony. I expect we will soon see Canon join the fray, and open another front against Sony in this FF mirrorless war.

08-24-2018, 11:16 AM	#56
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Originally posted by rawr I expect we will soon see Canon join the fray, and open another front against Sony in this FF mirrorless war. Well they better. Lot of videographers that I have seen with white zooms(Canon), are equiped with Sony. Canon has really good video department, but do they want to cannibalize it?. That will be interesting, all in all Sony has been having fun all alone so far. (now Ricoh has great opportunity to give great FF and aps-c when lot of people figures that grass is not greener on the other side. Machines might be better, but all in all it is skill of getting right place right time and knowing what you are doing..)

08-24-2018, 11:20 AM	#57
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,179	Originally posted by rawr I expect we will soon see Canon join the fray, and open another front against Sony in this FF mirrorless war. Canon already has their EOS-M series, which has been a learning experience for them; apparently Canon is already the leading supplier of MILC in Japan. People here seem to ignore APS-C, but APS-C has always been important to Canon who remains the largest supplier of true cameras {non smart phone}.

08-25-2018, 09:37 AM	#58
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	I've compared shots at 100% zoom from the Pentax K1 f8, 37mm and the Nikon Z7 with the 24-70 S, both lenses set at f8, 40mm, and interestingly the K1 image contains more details, so I suspect the Z7 to suffer from a significant amount of shutter shock or whatever it is, I don't know. Surprisingly the 36Mp image is better than the 45Mp image.

08-25-2018, 10:33 AM	#60
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	On one hand you have folks saying that it doesn't really matter what you release, you just have to release something mirrorless to enter that market. On the other hand, we can clearly see that if you release something that isn't a spec monster with killer auto focus, top end video and all the other bells and whistles, then you will be slammed in the market. If Pentax would release a mirrorless, they would need to figure out a niche that didn't match up directly against Fuji and Sony and now Nikon offerings because they aren't a tech company, they are a photography and glass company.