Nikon Z6 What did they get right/wrong?

photoptimist · 08-24-2018, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

I'm sure there are use cases but I can't fathom being upset by this.

Tech spec envy???

For a MILC, the battery life is more a matter of the live view EVF/screen on-time than the number of shots taken.

The CIPA standard for battery life basically does 1 shot every 30 seconds with a power on/off cycle every 10 shots. For a MILC, that means running the sensor, CPU, and EVF or screen full time with 2 shutter presses per minute. On the Z6, that means 410/2 = 205 minutes or almost 3 hours of always-on shooting time. The hours of battery life might be less for continuous burst but probably not that much less because the displays are the big power hog in the system and both shooting and live view use the sensor and CPU full time.

Even the most machine-gunning photographer could probably do fine with a Z6 if they simply remembered to always swap batteries every 1.5 to 2 hours.

**UncleVanya** · 08-24-2018, 06:28 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by photoptimist

Tech spec envy???

For a MILC, the battery life is more a matter of the live view EVF/screen on-time than the number of shots taken.

The CIPA standard for battery life basically does 1 shot every 30 seconds with a power on/off cycle every 10 shots. For a MILC, that means running the sensor, CPU, and EVF or screen full time with 2 shutter presses per minute. On the Z6, that means 410/2 = 205 minutes or almost 3 hours of always-on shooting time. The hours of battery life might be less for continuous burst but probably not that much less because the displays are the big power hog in the system and both shooting and live view use the sensor and CPU full time.

Even the most machine-gunning photographer could probably do fine with a Z6 if they simply remembered to always swap batteries every 1.5 to 2 hours.

I often shoot with a gx1 (with the optional evf) using generic batteries which tend to have lower life per charge. The gx1 original battery is rated at 320 shots. I rarely need more than one battery in a day of shooting, but I'm not shooting dozens of shots a minute very frequently during a shooting day.

reh321 · 08-24-2018, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by photoptimist

Even the most machine-gunning photographer could probably do fine with a Z6 if they simply remembered to always swap batteries every 1.5 to 2 hours.

I have at least half-a-dozen batteries for my Q-7 ..... but they aren't much larger than a US quarter.

surfar · 08-24-2018, 02:08 PM

An opinion from a Nikon Fanboys perspective,its highly critical.

Youtu.be

photoptimist · 08-24-2018, 02:37 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by surfar

An opinion from a Nikon Fanboys perspective,its highly critical.
? Z NIKON ? What Nikon is HIDING FROM YOU about it - YouTube

LOL! Nikon is DOOOOMED!

Optimists outnumber pessimists but pessimists sure are loud!

surfar · 08-24-2018, 03:01 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by photoptimist

LOL! Nikon is DOOOOMED!

But you always expected they would catch up to Pentax!

Mark Ransom · 08-24-2018, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by surfar

But you always expected they would catch up to Pentax!

You mean Pentax was leading at something?

surfar · 08-24-2018, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

You mean Pentax was leading at something?

Yes, theyve been the leading "doomed" company genre ...most probably they will keep up the good work!

mee · 08-24-2018, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

I love my K-01, but the AF is horrific. Give it a hybrid AF system and it becomes workable. Put a FF sensor in the back and it gets even better. Put in an EVF and nobody would have anything to complain about.

Just wait for the almost inevitable K mount adapter for the Z bodies that will be on ebay via China sometime next year or so. That said, maybe Metabones will start cranking them out..

That mount looks super adaptable.. so I suspect there will be a ton of adapters for it... hopefully with some level of decency with respect to both AE and AF.

The fun thing (for Nikon) will be, if this happens, they can likely siphon more money from users.. because maybe they want a walk around native zoom or prime to go with all their adapter-used lenses and then see the experience is nice. So then they buy another.. eventually they have a collection of Nikon gear and welcome to the club.

The S series lenses that are coming with the Z bodies look very nice optically.. at least if the 35 f/1.8 is typical. Edge sharpness is up there even at max aperture (there is a review out there with someone who has a copy of it and a Z7 with 100% photo examples).

I think all the talk of one card slot or two will slowly fade as people actually start using the system... for what it is, it looks pretty nice. Definitely a nice start to a new series and mount. I think we see mirrorless D6 like body next year and an update a year or two later for the Z6 and 7. So it is just getting started.

What really hasn't been discussed yet is if Nikon plans on introducing new features to the Z6/Z7 over time via firmware revisions. If they added a 3D tracking mode and maybe some form of eye-tracking later that could really squash some of the bigger noise. Plus, they could offer a second slot in a battery grip... not sure if they will but theoretically possible. Early days..

pakinjapan · 08-24-2018, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by MikeyBugs95

..It's the flange distance. Notice the flange focal distance differences of the Pentax K, Sony E and Nikon Z mounts. It's this distance, the distance from the sensor to the mount flange, that is a strong factor in determining the thickness of a camera ...

Yeah, i see the flange distance and i also see the diameter of both Pentax and sony. That why i was wondering if they can shorten flange focal distance with a new lenses design using the existing K mount. By a look of a non-engineere eyes, diameter of K is only 2 mm smaller than the Sony one but Sony design has a lot shorter flange distance. Lead me to think that, if Pentax give it a try, they might be able to reduce the flange distance with out making a new mount and end up with maybe a 3-4 mm thicker mirrorless body than current sony body.
And .... of course .... existing lenses will need to work with an adapter..... which on another thought, it is a kind of makes noooo sense if existing lenses need an adapter anyway

Mark Ransom · 08-24-2018, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by mee

Just wait for the almost inevitable K mount adapter for the Z bodies that will be on ebay via China sometime next year or so. That said, maybe Metabones will start cranking them out..

That mount looks super adaptable.. so I suspect there will be a ton of adapters for it... hopefully with some level of decency with respect to both AE and AF.

The fun thing (for Nikon) will be, if this happens, they can likely siphon more money from users.. because maybe they want a walk around native zoom or prime to go with all their adapter-used lenses and then see the experience is nice. So then they buy another.. eventually they have a collection of Nikon gear and welcome to the club.

I read somewhere that Nikon won't be sharing the technical details of the mount, they want to keep tight control over it. Those adapters might not be as plentiful as you think.

Originally posted by mee

The S series lenses that are coming with the Z bodies look very nice optically.. at least if the 35 f/1.8 is typical. Edge sharpness is up there even at max aperture (there is a review out there with someone who has a copy of it and a Z7 with 100% photo examples).

I'd be curious to see how their 50/1.8 stacks up against the DFA 50/1.4, at half the price.

Originally posted by mee

I think all the talk of one card slot or two will slowly fade as people actually start using the system... for what it is, it looks pretty nice. Definitely a nice start to a new series and mount. I think we see mirrorless D6 like body next year and an update a year or two later for the Z6 and 7. So it is just getting started.

What really hasn't been discussed yet is if Nikon plans on introducing new features to the Z6/Z7 over time via firmware revisions. If they added a 3D tracking mode and maybe some form of eye-tracking later that could really squash some of the bigger noise. Plus, they could offer a second slot in a battery grip... not sure if they will but theoretically possible. Early days..

The dual card slots appear to be absolutely critical if you're doing paid work, which is a decent hunk of the Nikon customer base.

**boriscleto** · 08-24-2018, 04:21 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

I read somewhere that Nikon won't be sharing the technical details of the mount, they want to keep tight control over it. Those adapters might not be as plentiful as you think.

When did that ever stop third party lenses & adapters for EOS? Sigma reverse engineered EOS, made lenses for EOS, then changed the electrical contacts and called it SA mount...

Mark Ransom · 08-24-2018, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

When did that ever stop third party lenses & adapters for EOS? Sigma reverse engineered EOS, made lenses for EOS, then changed the electrical contacts and called it SA mount...

The more electronic the mount gets, the harder it is to reverse engineer. And I didn't say impossible, just not plentiful.

Given how hard it has been to get third party support for Pentax products lately, I expect a K-mount adapter to be at the bottom of the priority list.

mee · 08-24-2018, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

I read somewhere that Nikon won't be sharing the technical details of the mount, they want to keep tight control over it. Those adapters might not be as plentiful as you think.

I'm unaware they have ever offered technical details of the mount to 3rd parties. The 3rd parties have to reverse engineer it.

disconnekt · 08-24-2018, 04:27 PM

This is me nitpicking:

- Should've had 2 XQD memory card slots or 2 UHS-II card slots (having 1 xqd+1sd card slot would slowed down the writing speed)

- Lens selection off the bat (to me) is shit, seem to me to be consumer grade lenses. They've been hyping how much light gathering capabilities the camera's can do, why not make the primes f1.4's (excluding the 58mm Noct & 50mm f1.2) to show off those capabilities? And why no f2.8 Trinity right off the bat?

08-24-2018, 06:39 AM	#33
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by photoptimist Even the most machine-gunning photographer could probably do fine with a Z6 if they simply remembered to always swap batteries every 1.5 to 2 hours. I have at least half-a-dozen batteries for my Q-7 ..... but they aren't much larger than a US quarter. Attached Images

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08-24-2018, 05:34 AM	#31
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,125	Originally posted by UncleVanya I'm sure there are use cases but I can't fathom being upset by this. Tech spec envy??? For a MILC, the battery life is more a matter of the live view EVF/screen on-time than the number of shots taken. The CIPA standard for battery life basically does 1 shot every 30 seconds with a power on/off cycle every 10 shots. For a MILC, that means running the sensor, CPU, and EVF or screen full time with 2 shutter presses per minute. On the Z6, that means 410/2 = 205 minutes or almost 3 hours of always-on shooting time. The hours of battery life might be less for continuous burst but probably not that much less because the displays are the big power hog in the system and both shooting and live view use the sensor and CPU full time. Even the most machine-gunning photographer could probably do fine with a Z6 if they simply remembered to always swap batteries every 1.5 to 2 hours.

08-24-2018, 06:28 AM - 1 Like	#32
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,404	Originally posted by photoptimist Tech spec envy??? For a MILC, the battery life is more a matter of the live view EVF/screen on-time than the number of shots taken. The CIPA standard for battery life basically does 1 shot every 30 seconds with a power on/off cycle every 10 shots. For a MILC, that means running the sensor, CPU, and EVF or screen full time with 2 shutter presses per minute. On the Z6, that means 410/2 = 205 minutes or almost 3 hours of always-on shooting time. The hours of battery life might be less for continuous burst but probably not that much less because the displays are the big power hog in the system and both shooting and live view use the sensor and CPU full time. Even the most machine-gunning photographer could probably do fine with a Z6 if they simply remembered to always swap batteries every 1.5 to 2 hours. I often shoot with a gx1 (with the optional evf) using generic batteries which tend to have lower life per charge. The gx1 original battery is rated at 320 shots. I rarely need more than one battery in a day of shooting, but I'm not shooting dozens of shots a minute very frequently during a shooting day.

08-24-2018, 02:37 PM - 2 Likes	#35
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,125	Originally posted by surfar An opinion from a Nikon Fanboys perspective,its highly critical. ? Z NIKON ? What Nikon is HIDING FROM YOU about it - YouTube LOL! Nikon is DOOOOMED! Optimists outnumber pessimists but pessimists sure are loud!

08-24-2018, 03:01 PM - 1 Like	#36
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	Originally posted by photoptimist LOL! Nikon is DOOOOMED! But you always expected they would catch up to Pentax!

08-24-2018, 03:19 PM	#37
Mark Ransom Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 498	Originally posted by surfar But you always expected they would catch up to Pentax! You mean Pentax was leading at something?

08-24-2018, 03:41 PM	#38
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	Originally posted by Mark Ransom You mean Pentax was leading at something? Yes, theyve been the leading "doomed" company genre ...most probably they will keep up the good work!

08-24-2018, 03:48 PM	#39
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by Mark Ransom I love my K-01, but the AF is horrific. Give it a hybrid AF system and it becomes workable. Put a FF sensor in the back and it gets even better. Put in an EVF and nobody would have anything to complain about. Just wait for the almost inevitable K mount adapter for the Z bodies that will be on ebay via China sometime next year or so. That said, maybe Metabones will start cranking them out.. That mount looks super adaptable.. so I suspect there will be a ton of adapters for it... hopefully with some level of decency with respect to both AE and AF. The fun thing (for Nikon) will be, if this happens, they can likely siphon more money from users.. because maybe they want a walk around native zoom or prime to go with all their adapter-used lenses and then see the experience is nice. So then they buy another.. eventually they have a collection of Nikon gear and welcome to the club. The S series lenses that are coming with the Z bodies look very nice optically.. at least if the 35 f/1.8 is typical. Edge sharpness is up there even at max aperture (there is a review out there with someone who has a copy of it and a Z7 with 100% photo examples). I think all the talk of one card slot or two will slowly fade as people actually start using the system... for what it is, it looks pretty nice. Definitely a nice start to a new series and mount. I think we see mirrorless D6 like body next year and an update a year or two later for the Z6 and 7. So it is just getting started. What really hasn't been discussed yet is if Nikon plans on introducing new features to the Z6/Z7 over time via firmware revisions. If they added a 3D tracking mode and maybe some form of eye-tracking later that could really squash some of the bigger noise. Plus, they could offer a second slot in a battery grip... not sure if they will but theoretically possible. Early days..

08-24-2018, 03:55 PM	#40
pakinjapan Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,041	Originally posted by MikeyBugs95 ..It's the flange distance. Notice the flange focal distance differences of the Pentax K, Sony E and Nikon Z mounts. It's this distance, the distance from the sensor to the mount flange, that is a strong factor in determining the thickness of a camera ... Yeah, i see the flange distance and i also see the diameter of both Pentax and sony. That why i was wondering if they can shorten flange focal distance with a new lenses design using the existing K mount. By a look of a non-engineere eyes, diameter of K is only 2 mm smaller than the Sony one but Sony design has a lot shorter flange distance. Lead me to think that, if Pentax give it a try, they might be able to reduce the flange distance with out making a new mount and end up with maybe a 3-4 mm thicker mirrorless body than current sony body. And .... of course .... existing lenses will need to work with an adapter..... which on another thought, it is a kind of makes noooo sense if existing lenses need an adapter anyway

08-24-2018, 04:00 PM	#41
Mark Ransom Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 498	Originally posted by mee Just wait for the almost inevitable K mount adapter for the Z bodies that will be on ebay via China sometime next year or so. That said, maybe Metabones will start cranking them out.. That mount looks super adaptable.. so I suspect there will be a ton of adapters for it... hopefully with some level of decency with respect to both AE and AF. The fun thing (for Nikon) will be, if this happens, they can likely siphon more money from users.. because maybe they want a walk around native zoom or prime to go with all their adapter-used lenses and then see the experience is nice. So then they buy another.. eventually they have a collection of Nikon gear and welcome to the club. I read somewhere that Nikon won't be sharing the technical details of the mount, they want to keep tight control over it. Those adapters might not be as plentiful as you think. Originally posted by mee The S series lenses that are coming with the Z bodies look very nice optically.. at least if the 35 f/1.8 is typical. Edge sharpness is up there even at max aperture (there is a review out there with someone who has a copy of it and a Z7 with 100% photo examples). I'd be curious to see how their 50/1.8 stacks up against the DFA 50/1.4, at half the price. Originally posted by mee I think all the talk of one card slot or two will slowly fade as people actually start using the system... for what it is, it looks pretty nice. Definitely a nice start to a new series and mount. I think we see mirrorless D6 like body next year and an update a year or two later for the Z6 and 7. So it is just getting started. What really hasn't been discussed yet is if Nikon plans on introducing new features to the Z6/Z7 over time via firmware revisions. If they added a 3D tracking mode and maybe some form of eye-tracking later that could really squash some of the bigger noise. Plus, they could offer a second slot in a battery grip... not sure if they will but theoretically possible. Early days.. The dual card slots appear to be absolutely critical if you're doing paid work, which is a decent hunk of the Nikon customer base.

08-24-2018, 04:21 PM - 1 Like	#42
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by Mark Ransom I read somewhere that Nikon won't be sharing the technical details of the mount, they want to keep tight control over it. Those adapters might not be as plentiful as you think. When did that ever stop third party lenses & adapters for EOS? Sigma reverse engineered EOS, made lenses for EOS, then changed the electrical contacts and called it SA mount...

08-24-2018, 04:25 PM	#43
Mark Ransom Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 498	Originally posted by boriscleto When did that ever stop third party lenses & adapters for EOS? Sigma reverse engineered EOS, made lenses for EOS, then changed the electrical contacts and called it SA mount... The more electronic the mount gets, the harder it is to reverse engineer. And I didn't say impossible, just not plentiful. Given how hard it has been to get third party support for Pentax products lately, I expect a K-mount adapter to be at the bottom of the priority list.

08-24-2018, 04:26 PM	#44
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by Mark Ransom I read somewhere that Nikon won't be sharing the technical details of the mount, they want to keep tight control over it. Those adapters might not be as plentiful as you think. I'm unaware they have ever offered technical details of the mount to 3rd parties. The 3rd parties have to reverse engineer it.

08-24-2018, 04:27 PM	#45
disconnekt Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: SoCal/I.E. Photos: Albums Posts: 1,699	This is me nitpicking: - Should've had 2 XQD memory card slots or 2 UHS-II card slots (having 1 xqd+1sd card slot would slowed down the writing speed) - Lens selection off the bat (to me) is shit, seem to me to be consumer grade lenses. They've been hyping how much light gathering capabilities the camera's can do, why not make the primes f1.4's (excluding the 58mm Noct & 50mm f1.2) to show off those capabilities? And why no f2.8 Trinity right off the bat?