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08-25-2018, 05:29 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
To me Nikons choices seem grown up. They have been focusing on the shooting experience and not only pandering to spec nerds. Putting effort into the evf, ditching a card slot and putting out f1.8 lenses all look like good decisions to me.

I've yet to see a good enough evf, perhaps this nikon one is. The quality you can achieve at 1.8 with largish but not uncomfortable large lenses is probably quite awesome. They could match the dfa* 50 at 1.8 with smaller size and price.
I don't know. To me, mirrorless cameras need to bring something to the table that is better than what SLRs already offer. That could be smaller size, better specs, better ergonomics, better image quality. I think here, the improvements are better video (mostly auto focus in video), auto focus points that go closer to the edge of the sensor, and the EVF. Many of the other features are available to D850 users already.

For some people, just the act of putting an EVF on a camera vaults it to the top, regardless of lag and refresh rates. I'm not there and for me, EVFs tend to give me headaches and eye strain, but regardless, it doesn't sound as though these EVFs are at the A9 level -- they do have some lag and do freeze up if you are shooting really fast frame rates.

As to the choice to put out f1.8 lenses at cheaper prices, I don't really see that. Currently Adorama has the Z lenses priced as follows: 24-70 f4 -- 996.95 (good thing that it's under 1000), 35 f1.8 -- 846.95, and 50 f1.8 596.95. Maybe these are top end lenses, but honestly, looking at the image quality from the 24-70 in pre-release shots, it doesn't look like anything special.

Oh well, clearly this isn't a camera for me (or probably for anyone who isn't deeply interested in 4K video), but I'm sure it will sell decently.

08-25-2018, 05:54 AM - 1 Like   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by ShaunW Quote
The Nikon Z6 is one of the first mirrorless cameras I would actually consider. It is a decent size with a good grip and an EVF with minimal lag. I like that its full frame rather than APS-C with a CMOS sensor rather than X-TRANS etc. The price point is also tempting at under $2000 USD. The flange distance is very small which should make it compatible with multiple lenses via adapter. The only problem I have with it is the 410 shot battery life. That would be a deal breaker.

Nikon Z6 Mirrorless Digital Camera (Body Only) 1595 B&H Photo

What do you think Ricoh/Pentax can do to compete? What features etc. There may not be enough desire among current Pentax users to have a comparable mirrorless body but it would help bring in new people to the brand. What if Ricoh/Pentax has secretly been working on a mirrorless body to release during the 100th anniversary next year? I believe this type of event/release would be the only one large enough to gain a reasonable amount of attention from the press.
The new Nikon mirrorless cameras appear to be aimed at existing Nikon users who are considering switching to Sony. I think Nikon is just trying to stop the bleeding. Its a first generation project and most of the early reviews are pointing out that it Nikon still has some things to work on, and that is expected for a new product. Nikon needs about 3 more years to have a system that can compete and maybe longer. The Sony E-mount is an open mount that any 3rd party can develop for. Ricoh could make an E-mount body if they wanted. This has helped Sony with 3rd party support. Nikon is keeping the new mount closed, so don't expect 3rd party lenses or adapters. One of the things that helped Sony was the 3rd party lens adapters.


I like the new Nikon cameras and they do put some pressure on Sony to improve, but I don't see how they offer anything new or innovative. No eye-AF, short battery life. Like the early Fuji and Sony cameras, the new Nikon mirrorless appears to be slow and has a lot of hiccups at this point. No black-free shutter and the 10fps is only in full manual. If you turn on auto-ISO it drops to 5-6 fps.


It a camera for existing Nikon users. An attempt to keep existing Nikon users from switching to Sony. For someone starting from nothing, the new Nikon system is 3+ years away from competing with Sony. Hopefully Nikon can accelerate the development of the system and we can see better competition in the near future or maybe Canon's new mirrorless will be a bigger step up and put more pressure on Sony.
08-25-2018, 06:09 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
maybe Canon's new mirrorless will be a bigger step up and put more pressure on Sony.
Yes, i'm sure they can be about C level. $$$onys A level of course and Nikon chose to come in at the bottom of the ladder.
08-25-2018, 06:49 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Just watched a review from prominent reviewers.They were disappointed.

UNDERWHELMING was their attitude..." XT-1 and A7r2 level" meaning these Zeees would have been good cameras 3 years ago.Their test was with Preproduction firmware though,so perhaps once these are on the market,there will be some positives.
The only review that matters is how Nikon users react ..... that will take several weeks to know.

08-25-2018, 09:06 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
I think its also to give you the feeling that it is a smaller system when compared to other formats out there.






I have a feeling that right out of the gates Nikon wanted to give its users what many wanted in a mirrorless camera, something that can be used right along side what they are already using.


Lenses are fast enough while balancing them with performance. I don't think there will be this great big migration of DLSR users dumping there camera for ML but that people wanting the ability to have a small FF system for the times they what something smaller without many of the sacrifices you have going with other ML camera. all while having the ability to use your more expensive lenses on this body when you want too.
I think it is nice they could shrink the form factor of the camera and lens down to a range of a micro 4/3rds system but with the optical quality of a FF system. And those Nikkor S lenses do look have more under the hood than what meets the eye.... hence the pricing.


But yes this seems like a side system to the DSLRs at the moment. And I think that is because they know this system will take years to fully develop and mature and Nikon want to give themselves room to grow the feature set of their mirrorless cameras in subsequent bodies (to many more money).
08-25-2018, 09:17 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Just watched a review from prominent reviewers.They were disappointed.

UNDERWHELMING was their attitude..." XT-1 and A7r2 level" meaning these Zeees would have been good cameras 3 years ago.Their test was with Preproduction firmware though,so perhaps once these are on the market,there will be some positives.
You're referring to a Northrup youtube video where they indeed stated their views, many many many times in that video, were on a pre-production model with an early firmware. So that vid doesn't really count, they might just be cashing in on the fanfare by throwing up as many vids they can to get views for payola. Yet if you value their opinions, wait for them to get a production model, get to take it outdoors in various lighting, and for more than an hour that they had with this copy.

In short, it is too early to make definitive judgements on the system to that degree. I suspect it will be in fact 'lesser' of a camera in terms of autofocusing abilities than the 3rd gen Sonys, but how that equates to real life shooting is still a guess. Lacking the 3D tracking mode of their DSLRs (which works well in my experiences) and the group modes would hinder this system more than the single card slot.


What I'd really like to see from Nikon is frequent firmware upgrades over the next year with these. *IF* there was little difference from the pre-production firmware to what this looks like in a year, I think that would be a disappointment for a number of people. Mostly those spoiled with eye-tracking and the snappy responsiveness of the 3rd gen Sonys. But we're not there yet..


The other possibility is they pull a Sony and launch a new generation every year or so and then put these bodies as a lower tier, but not discontinuing them. They could build out a lineup that way too.. Will be interesting to watch!
08-25-2018, 09:35 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The only review that matters is how Nikon users react ..... that will take several weeks to know.
With the rapidly shrinking remaining Nikon user base that would be their end (Pentax term: DOOM ).

They do have to win (a lot) of new customers for survival or be prepared to join Pentax as a niche player.

The first impressions all send the message: underwhelming.

---------- Post added 25th Aug 2018 at 18:42 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Yes, i'm sure they can be about C level. $$$onys A level of course and Nikon chose to come in at the bottom of the ladder.
It will be interesting to see if Nikon this time will recognize their fails quickly enough and bring out a competitive 2nd generation soon (Sony having demonstrated how that works).

Or the Z6/7 join the Nikon 1 models, where they stubbornly stuck to concepts which everybody was laughing at and did not sell outside hardcore fans.
The first Canon M was similar, only Canon now is a Gorilla in the DSLM market - after a couple of iterations.


The other route would be drastic price reductions, but I don't think the bean counters will allow that.

08-25-2018, 01:19 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
With the rapidly shrinking remaining Nikon user base that would be their end (Pentax term: DOOM ).
What documentation supports the phrase "rapidly shrinking Nikon user base"? At another - a generic - discussion forum where I am a regular, Nikon users are the most active group. At B&H, the D850 is on back order until end of the month. When models at B&H are listed by "best sellers", Nikon models are 5 of the top top 10 - 2 {Z7+lens+FTZ}, 5 {Z6+FTZ}, 6 {Z7+FTZ}, 7{D850}, 9{Z6+lens+FTZ}. I would love for Pentax to be equally "unsupported" by users.
08-25-2018, 02:15 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
What documentation supports the phrase "rapidly shrinking Nikon user base"
My guess would be CIPA,their figures show Dslrs declining every year and maybe "rapidly" is the not quite right adjective.

CaNik hold the vast majority of Dslr business,so its those 2 that are declining at a higher rate than the third player,CaNik must be DOOMed i suppose?
08-25-2018, 03:23 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I think it is nice they could shrink the form factor of the camera and lens down to a range of a micro 4/3rds system but with the optical quality of a FF system. And those Nikkor S lenses do look have more under the hood than what meets the eye.... hence the pricing.
I have to admit the S50mm 1.8 and the S35 1.8 have peaked my interest , looking at some of the photo taken with the S50 1.8 makes me envious of that lens and I feel it warrants the price difference over the 50 1.8g its a cheap 50mm lens to fill its gap it was designed for . While I like the 50 1.8g it has its faults but I still like it more than the sigma art, I like the 1.8g for landscape as I feel its sharper while for everything else such as Bokeh I much more prefer the sigma but never purchased the art in this FL. I also don't need 1.4 in this FL and now for more of my landscape photography I use a more dedicated landscape lens 45 T/S
08-25-2018, 03:58 PM   #86
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Yes

This guy isnt everybodies cup of tea.

But what is in this cup of T is quite true.
08-25-2018, 05:09 PM   #87
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Snap your fingers and shes GONE!



Just another Pro who wont have it.


08-25-2018, 05:36 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
I have to admit the S50mm 1.8 and the S35 1.8 have peaked my interest , looking at some of the photo taken with the S50 1.8 makes me envious of that lens and I feel it warrants the price difference over the 50 1.8g its a cheap 50mm lens to fill its gap it was designed for . While I like the 50 1.8g it has its faults but I still like it more than the sigma art, I like the 1.8g for landscape as I feel its sharper while for everything else such as Bokeh I much more prefer the sigma but never purchased the art in this FL. I also don't need 1.4 in this FL and now for more of my landscape photography I use a more dedicated landscape lens 45 T/S
I run a Tamron 45mm f/1.8 and am very happy with the performance, but have eyed the 50 f/1.8G simply due to the size for certain situations. I think it is less sharp than the tamron but not terribly so.


50 f/1.8S looks to be sharp across the entire frame even at f/1.8, but around the size of the Tamron 45mm lens (which to get the same sharpness needs to be stopped down to f/2 or f/2.8). I think all the S series are going to be sharp across the frame due to the 90% coverage on the AF points. If so, then I wonder how lenses that are softer in the corners are going to behave with AF points on the edges?

I think that 14-30 f/4 seems tasty to me.. released next year. It looks rather small and portable! Might be a nice little combo for hiking..
08-25-2018, 07:24 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
And then changed their mind:

08-25-2018, 07:48 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
And then changed their mind:
Not the first female to do that!
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