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08-25-2018, 08:03 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote

A 7 and a half minute video to tell everyone she cancelled her pre-order because the Nikon site originally said 10-15 minutes of battery life for video. And then later was updated to say 85 minutes at which point she re-preordered a Z7 kit.

She also mentioned that she also felt she'd be missing out on content for her youtube channel... so I think she is partially concerned about 'payola' off of youtube and staying relevant in the scene. That's the trouble with being a yt talking head.. you always have to keep up with the Joneses or you lose your relevance. If you don't have a wide enough viewership you likely aren't getting companies to ship you loaners to review... which means it is on you to buy or rent to make your vids. Gets expensive unless the yt checks can cover your costs..

08-25-2018, 08:14 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
So buy that lens then,its only U$850...The F mount is U$200....Nikon will love you.
So you have shot them side by side and they are equal? F stop is one factor.
08-25-2018, 09:19 PM - 1 Like   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
So you have shot them side by side and they are equal?
yes, the S model was over 4 times better.Just ask Nikon.
08-25-2018, 09:27 PM - 1 Like   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
yes, the S model was over 4 times better.Just ask Nikon.
If you think that cost is a direct 1:1 map to quality - meaning that you think a lens that costs 4x should deliver 4x quality then you have lost your mind. The HD DFA 50 1.4 Pentax certainly doesn't outperform the FA 1.4 at a factor of price/price and no lenses do. The cost goes up very quickly with small incremental improvements. I suspect you know that and you are trying to underscore your point without answering my question. If you have not seen them shot and compared then comparing the price and ridiculing them is pretty silly. I have no further interest in discussion with you on this point.


Last edited by UncleVanya; 08-25-2018 at 10:15 PM.
08-25-2018, 09:46 PM - 1 Like   #95
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The matchup I'd like to see is Nikon's S50/1.8 vs. Pentax's DFA 50/1.4. Both are newly designed 50's. The F-stop difference is only 3/4 of a stop. We know that Pentax intended theirs to be a statement on state-of-the-art rendering for a 50; what about Nikon?
08-25-2018, 11:13 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I have no further interest in discussion with you on this point.
Oh Dear, but think of the K-1 lottery!
08-25-2018, 11:29 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
yes, the S model was over 4 times better.Just ask Nikon.
+1

I bet there will be some sheep who pay any price for the $100 value Nikon S lens. I mean for the makers that would be a good sign. 400% price increase made up by marketing for lame F1.8/F2 lenses is the holy grail of making money.
It allows offering 50mm F4 lenses for "just" +100% price increase later on.


Maybe Nikon have fired all their lens engineers who were able to design F1.4 lenses?

Or their bean counters took over and gave them firm direction that they have to get F1.4 prices from entry level lenses.

---------- Post added 26th Aug 2018 at 08:36 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Currently Adorama has the Z lenses priced as follows: 24-70 f4 -- 996.95 (good thing that it's under 1000), 35 f1.8 -- 846.95, and 50 f1.8 596.95. Maybe these are top end lenses, but honestly, looking at the image quality from the 24-70 in pre-release shots, it doesn't look like anything special.
Come on. "Top-end lenses" are defined by capabilities mainly. F4 and F1.8 are low end for these types of lenses. The Pentax DFA 28-105 delivers fantastic image quality, but still it is a simple kit lens and not "top-end".

Nikon's first few lenses are low end kit lenses as well (it remains to be seen if any of them even can compete with the DFA 28-105). There isn't room for debate here.

08-25-2018, 11:47 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Nikon's first few lenses are low end kit lenses
Yes, perhaps what comes next year will be better??? IF? they fulfil whats on their "roadmap".

The 58mm f0.95 is manual focus and rumours are that i'tll be around U$ 6000.Available now is a Chinese 50 f0.95(apparently reasonably good) which sells for 799 U$.Nikon might have WR?
08-26-2018, 12:23 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Yes, perhaps what comes next year will be better??? IF? they fulfil whats on their "roadmap".
I see no reason why they wouldnt rullfill they roadmap other than the beancounters get nasty because the cameras don't sell so well (quite possible given their underwhelmingness).

But the question is: Even if Nikon manages to copy their DSLR lens offering into DSLM world in a few years - why would anyone (including the few left Nikon fans) spend a LOT of $$$$'s on that?

Where is the USP (pink sunglasses from Nikon fans aside)?

Nikon doesnt have the image of building the top end lenses.
Nikon doesnt have the image of building the most compact DSLMs.
Nikon doesnt have the image of building the best AF.
Nikon doesnt have the image of having the best pro support.
Nikon doesnt have the image to offer best price/benefit ratio.
Nikon doesnt have the image of building the most ruggest field cameras.
Nikon doesnt have an image of offering the best usability.
Nikon doesnt have the image of building hip cameras or stylish lenses.
Nikon doesnt offer the top end DSLMs.
Nikon doesnt offer the best mini-displays in EVF.

They come from being an (often inferior) carbon copy product of Canon with Sony sensors. That is why they shrink and shrink.


The Z line didn't address any of those weaknesses at all.

You do not need a lot of USP items. But one should have been there to avoid a fail.

That their new 4000 EUR camera doesnt even match up with their previous DSLR isnt a smart idea either.
08-26-2018, 12:54 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
The Z line didn't address any of those weaknesses at all.
These 2 Zeees had to come to market with either more capability OR more competitive prices(than $$$ony) to attract any non Nikon consumers.

Neither happened, some Nikon users will buy it.However,the Nikon users who had been waiting to see if they were superior to $$$ony will still buy $$$ony.

$$$ony must be delighted!...Nikon's re INVENTING of mirrorless didnt happen.

Nikons menu will be fine with Nikon users,Battery LIFE???....Nikon didnt heed all the complaints against the early $$$onys.

Single card slot but asking Pro grade price???

Those 2 rule out Wedding and Event Togs

The D850 was a good effort,Zee series might get better in a few years(unless theres a Z8 Pro model in the wings?)
08-26-2018, 01:29 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
These 2 Zeees had to come to market with either more capability OR more competitive prices(than $$$ony) to attract any non Nikon consumers.
Yes, absolutely. And I do not understand how they ended up with overpriced low end lenses. They had two good opportunities as you mentioned but they missed both of them.

Now all they have left is a chance that a few fans will dance if the entry level lenses at least perform well on test charts numbers of internet bloggers.
08-26-2018, 01:40 AM - 1 Like   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
I do not understand how they ended up with overpriced low end lenses.
I think they aimed at existing Nikon users Only, and the adapter to make the system viable from Day 1.Its overpriced and should be FREE with Z7 and U$ 50 with Z6.

Another battery related flaw is the fact they are "developing a battery grip"! This should have been available from Day 1.
08-26-2018, 02:07 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Nikon doesnt have the image of building the top end lenses.
.
Nikon doesnt have the image of building the best AF.
Nikon doesnt have the image of having the best pro support.
.
Nikon doesnt have the image of building the most ruggest field cameras.
Nikon doesnt have an image of offering the best usability.

.
To the extent to which that's true, it's a sad fall from grace - I remember thinking, back in the 90s that the quality of their lenses, for example, was over-hyped, (but that's subjective to some extent) but they certainly had a reputation for the best lenses, pro support, ruggedness etc
08-26-2018, 02:10 AM   #104
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Be gentle with Nikon. The Z6 is merely a v1 product. By Z6 II or Z6 III there should be real improvements that make it a more serious product.
08-26-2018, 02:33 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Be gentle with Nikon. The Z6 is merely a v1 product. By Z6 II or Z6 III there should be real improvements that make it a more serious product.
Honestly, the issue is more with Nikon's pricing than anything else. Both cameras feel like they are about 25 percent more expensive than they should be. As far as lenses, they are asking the same for the 24-70 f4 that Pentax is asking for their 24-70 f2.8 (it is cheaper when part of a kit). The primes seem really expensive too.

It just feels like Nikon see themselves more like Leica when the rest of us just see them as a normal camera brand. Obviously there are some folks out there that will buy something because it says Nikon on it, regardless of price, but compared to Sony products at the same prices, these don't feel like anything special.
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