[surfar]

with their 1st Gen releases they match roughly 90% of what $ony's 3rd Gen mirrorless offer, it's just a waiting game to see how well the perfomance of the Z6 & Z7 are, not only with the adapter & F-mount lenses (even 3rd party ones) but with the native mount lenses.

I'm not really understanding your Maths there?

$$$ony are way ahead with their HIGH end glass(it co$ts a lot).These Nikon kit lenses are nothing exceptional.If you remember Pentax launched their FF with 5 classy zooms(2 of which were existing),which is a loooong way ahead of what ZED 67 is doing.

Nikon have opened the door wider for their clients to leave,espescially when $$$ony brings their next generation(and they have the capacity to get generation 4 out fairly quickly).

Nikon HAD to join the game with either better prices or better equipment...they did neither.

[ffking]

One of the differences between film - or at least 35mm film- and digital is that there is far more differentiation of function possible in digital - cameras can be more specialist, like lower Mp/ faster frame rate or higher IQ etc etc etc. The Nikon teasers suggested they were going for a niche corner of the market with these - certainly the 7, which the teasers seemed to be teasing - but the product seems less niche, and the reviews are treating it as a general purpose mirrorless. Maybe companies need to be brave enough to say who the camera is for if they don't want the weaknesses in areas they didn't design for to be pointed out.

[surfar]

Maybe companies need to be brave enough to say who the camera is for if they don't want the weaknesses in areas they didn't design for to be pointed out.

Well they said in the launch that Z6/7 were aimed at enthusiasts and PROfessionals!...A brave call with one slot,any professional wont consider these 2.

Now,what we dont know is IF,these are infact teasers and theres a higher speced body being held back to compete with the A9?

companies need to be brave enough to say who the camera is for

To Pentaxs credit they labelled the K-1 as a field camera.

[Rondec]

I think its also to give you the feeling that it is a smaller system when compared to other formats out there.






I have a feeling that right out of the gates Nikon wanted to give its users what many wanted in a mirrorless camera, something that can be used right along side what they are already using.


Lenses are fast enough while balancing them with performance. I don't think there will be this great big migration of DLSR users dumping there camera for ML but that people wanting the ability to have a small FF system for the times they what something smaller without many of the sacrifices you have going with other ML camera. all while having the ability to use your more expensive lenses on this body when you want too.

I am just not particularly sure what this is. I was looking at D750 size with 35 f1.8 prime versus the Z6 with 35mm f1.8 prime on camera size and they are surprisingly similar in size. I would have thought that the with shorter registration distance that the 35 would be smaller than it is. It looks like it is actually a larger lens than the 35 f1.8 G. I have no idea about the quality of either lens though.

In the end, I think the Z6 supplies an option for people who (a) want an EVF and don't want to go with Sony and (b) want the mirrorless video experience. Size isn't the most important thing, but if price is as expensive as it is and size isn't a whole lot smaller then it feels a bit odd. In comparison, the Sony A7r III with a 28 f2 lens is quite a bit smaller than either the Z6 or 7 with a 35 f1.8.

---

Last edited by Rondec; 08-25-2018 at 02:59 AM.

[ffking]

To Pentaxs credit they labelled the K-1 as a field camera

Yes, and it deflected some of the criticism - that was partly what I had in mind - I think that if Nikon had done something similar with the A7, people would be looking more at the areas where it is better than the Sonys (weather sealing and maybe a some others - I've touched neither, so I don't know) - and dual memory card is less important for landscape, as long as you know immediately that your card has failed. It feels to me that at the last minute they let themselves be guided in their marketing by what people were hoping for not what they had designed the camera for. Always undersell and over-deliver if you want a long term reputation.

Incidentally, the A7iii was very aggressively priced aimed at spiking Canikon, I'd say, so price comparisons are not totally fair in one sense.

[Caat]

I'm now convinced that a Pentax MILC would make sense only if they kept the K-mount; they don't have the resources to develop yet another lens family. That is also the new thing they would bring to the table. Whether that is enough is a question I don't feel qualified to answer.

Ricoh as a whole is a much larger company than Nikon. I know it's much more complicated than simply saying "Ricoh could invest more if it wanted to" but there's an element of choice in Ricoh not developing a new mount. Also, just because they could doesn't mean they should.

I certainly agree that anything they did would have to be different but different in a good way, with tangible benefits for customers.

If you could get a mirrorless down to the size of an MX then it could maintain the K-mount but still be as small as a lot of modern mount mirrorless. But that's a huge technical challenge that may be impossible to actually meet.

[Rondec]

The negatives of keeping the K mount are that you can't shrink the depth of the camera as much and you can't "mount every lens ever made." At the same time, it feels as though that ship has sailed and people who want to adapt FD lenses or Leica lenses are already doing it with Sony.

The K-01 is pretty small. If you added an full frame sensor, EVF and flip out screen it would have to be a little larger, but I really think it wouldn't be that much bigger than many of the Sony NEX cameras are and certainly combined with FA limited lenses it would be a pretty small package that would be way smaller than the Z6/7 with any one of the lenses currently available.

[ffking]

The negatives of keeping the K mount are that you can't shrink the depth of the camera as much and you can't "mount every lens ever made."

i do know it's not that simple, believe me, but just out of interest I was just measuring my LX, and it's only about 60mm deep - less than the full frame mirrorless Nikons or their Sony 'equivalents'. I wonder what could be achieved by, for example, doing without te rear display entirely in favour of the EVF - just like the old days, only E instead of O

[house]

To me Nikons choices seem grown up. They have been focusing on the shooting experience and not only pandering to spec nerds. Putting effort into the evf, ditching a card slot and putting out f1.8 lenses all look like good decisions to me.

I've yet to see a good enough evf, perhaps this nikon one is. The quality you can achieve at 1.8 with largish but not uncomfortable large lenses is probably quite awesome. They could match the dfa* 50 at 1.8 with smaller size and price.

[surfar]

Just watched a review from prominent reviewers.They were disappointed.

UNDERWHELMING was their attitude..." XT-1 and A7r2 level" meaning these Zeees would have been good cameras 3 years ago.Their test was with Preproduction firmware though,so perhaps once these are on the market,there will be some positives.

[Caat]

i do know it's not that simple, believe me, but just out of interest I was just measuring my LX, and it's only about 60mm deep - less than the full frame mirrorless Nikons or their Sony 'equivalents'. I wonder what could be achieved by, for example, doing without te rear display entirely in favour of the EVF - just like the old days, only E instead of O

Perhaps you could have a modular design whereby for absolute portability you could have a removable rear screen

[surfar]

putting out f1.8 lenses all look like good decisions to me.

So buy that lens then,its only U$850...The F mount is U$200....Nikon will love you.

[ffking]

for absolute portability you could have a removable rear screen

maybe you could use it as a phone, too

[house]

So buy that lens then,its only U$850...The F mount is U$200....Nikon will love you.

Haha, I'm not moving to Nikon that's for sure.They have nothing I want atm. But you are pointing out an interesting fact about the camera business. DSLRs are a mature market with decent competition, lots of quality legacy stuff but quite complicated mechanics. The mirrorless market however is much better for the manufacturers, a chance to start anew with higher prices and simpler products. Mirrorless is obviously even better for the sensor manufacturers as they eat up an even bigger share of the cost of each camera with more and more functions being integrated into the sensor.

I keep saying that Pentax should never go mirrorless but refine the mirrored concept and own a niche. Under the Ricoh brand however it would be interesting if they could produce a few super niche cameras in line with the GR but with different characteristics. The 'do it all' camera market is becoming very uninteresting and very crowded with all sensor sizes converging on the same size body with the same features and similar ergonomics.

[surfar]

Haha, I'm not moving to Nikon that's for sure.

Me either with those Zeees,but its unkown what Canon will come up with in about ten days?? I think they will do better than Nikon.

I keep saying that Pentax should never go mirrorless

Been there,done that.But without an EVF!...With the overall shrinking market all the companies have to be very careful what they put the R&D dollars into.Ricoh has developed some niche things and do it well,i hope that continues.