Canon FF Mirrorless....WHEN?

surfar · 08-24-2018, 01:38 PM

Canon have an announcement Sept 4/5.

Will they respond to Nikon?...Enter the FF M/L genre?

Some have speculated just that and some think they will update the M5 with a MK 2???

**BigMackCam** · 08-24-2018, 02:06 PM

If I was Canon, I'd probably wait to learn some lessons from Nikon's mirrorless launch and first few months thereafter. There are a lot of similarities between the two brands in terms of scale, market coverage, breadth of application etc. Nikon will have got some things wrong (every manufacturer does), and there are some valuable and relatively low-cost lessons Canon could benefit from - even if it has something almost ready to go - by holding off just a little while...

surfar · 08-24-2018, 02:10 PM

Checkout Angry's YT on the "what Nikon got wrong" thread

---------- Post added 08-25-18 at 08:13 AM ----------

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Nikon's mirrorless launch

Regardless of anyones personal opinion of Angry, his camera/lens evaluations are reasonably accurate.

**BigMackCam** · 08-24-2018, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by surfar

Checkout Angry's YT on the "what Nikon got wrong" thread

If we're talking about "The Angry Photographer", I'd rather not

But I'll be very interested to read feedback from a range of early adopters, and how prolific (or not) that feedback is. I'm especially interested to know what folks think of the F-mount AF adapter, considering Nikon chose to leave screw-drive out of the design. I guess that might not matter too much, as most folks are using newer lenses.

Will Nikon gain a large chunk of new users (and will some of those be switching from Sony)? Will it convert some of its existing DSLR owners to mirrorless? Or expand the purchasing activities of existing DSLR owners to include the mirrorless bodies / adapters?

Answers to these and many more questions could be extremely valuable to Canon in advance of releasing its own platform...

biz-engineer · 08-24-2018, 02:20 PM

Nikon got it wrong (they are doomed), will Canon get it wrong and be doomed?

**BigMackCam** · 08-24-2018, 02:23 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Nikon got it wrong, will Canon get it wrong?

Did Nikon honestly get it wrong, though? I'm sure there are plenty of things that could be improved on the Z6 & 7... but - for existing Nikon DSLR and lens owners, at least - these bodies surely offer a lot of attractive features, largely (if not totally) comparable to their Sony counterparts? Or have I missed something? It's entirely possible I have, as I've only scanned the specs and watched a little of Sony Northrup's preview...

(Thanks to @MarkJerling for alerting me to the nickname "Sony Northrup" - priceless )

surfar · 08-24-2018, 02:49 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

(Thanks to @MarkJerling for alerting me to the nickname "Sony Northrup" - priceless )

Its miraculous @Mark has even heard of $$$ony or $ony&Chelsea considering he lives at the end of the Earth.Even his Wugby team plays in monochrome(and will be behind tonight!)

reh321 · 08-24-2018, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

But I'll be very interested to read feedback from a range of early adopters, and how prolific (or not) that feedback is. I'm especially interested to know what folks think of the F-mount AF adapter, considering Nikon chose to leave screw-drive out of the design. .....

Answers to these and many more questions could be extremely valuable to Canon in advance of releasing its own platform...

Since Canon never had an in-body AF motor, this part would be irrelevant to them.

**BigMackCam** · 08-24-2018, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by reh321

Since Canon never had an in-body AF motor, this part would be irrelevant to them.

A-ha. Thanks for the heads-up on that. Just shows what I know about Canon, right?

And I own an EOS 5 film camera... with two AF lenses

That aside, there are still good lessons Canon might learn at Nikon's expense, I think...

surfar · 08-24-2018, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

will Canon get it wrong and be doomed?

If they come with 2 slots,reasonable 4K video,ergonomics and menu that betters $$$ony, then they wont steal the Pentax/Nikon Doomed tag.We know their AF will be up to the task.

reh321 · 08-24-2018, 03:04 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

A-ha. Thanks for the heads-up on that. Just shows what I know about Canon, right?

And I own an EOS 5 film camera... with two AF lenses

That aside, there are still good lessons Canon might learn at Nikon's expense, I think...

In the 1980's, Canon jumped straight from the FD-mount {which they "orphaned"} to the EF-mount {which current version of F-mount and the KAF4-mount resemble}. That is the main benefit they obtained from "abandoning" the FD-mount, and why making a full-function EF to EF-M converter was so straight-forward.

I don't know whether the EF-M mount is compatible with FF. I do know that Canon recently patented yet another mount, so they may still have 'interesting' days ahead.

**BigMackCam** · 08-24-2018, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by surfar

If they come with 2 slots,reasonable 4K video,ergonomics and menu that better $$$ony then they wont steal the Pentax/Nikon Doomed tag.We know their AF will be up to the task.

Does Canon already have eye AF (not the old eye-activated / eye-tracked AF point, but Sony-style Eye AF)? That seems to be one of the complaints on the Nikon mirrorless spec. Although I don't use it myself, Sony folks seem crazy about the Eye AF capability...

rawr · 08-24-2018, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by surfar

Canon have an announcement Sept 4/5.

Getting hard to keep up with all this news.

If it is anything about FF mirrorless, I expect Canon's effort will be more than credible.

They have the mirrorless experience (in APS-C), they have good AF, they pioneered DSLR video - and they know exactly what Nikon and Sony are bringing to the table.

They will probably aim to take a bigger bite out of the market than Nikon could hope for, and aim their offerings directly at Sony.

reh321 · 08-24-2018, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Does Canon already have eye AF (not the old eye-activated / eye-tracked AF point, but Sony-style Eye AF)? That seems to be one of the complaints on the Nikon mirrorless spec. Although I don't use it myself, Sony folks seem crazy about the Eye AF capability...

I believe that is most important to folk using very shallow DOF .... whatever else might be outside their DOF, they want the eyes to be inside it.

surfar · 08-24-2018, 03:38 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Does Canon already have eye AF

Youtu.be

08-24-2018, 01:38 PM	#1
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,138	Canon FF Mirrorless....WHEN? Canon have an announcement Sept 4/5. Will they respond to Nikon?...Enter the FF M/L genre? Some have speculated just that and some think they will update the M5 with a MK 2???

08-24-2018, 02:57 PM	#10
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,138 Original Poster	Originally posted by biz-engineer will Canon get it wrong and be doomed? If they come with 2 slots,reasonable 4K video,ergonomics and menu that betters $$$ony, then they wont steal the Pentax/Nikon Doomed tag.We know their AF will be up to the task. Last edited by surfar; 08-24-2018 at 03:29 PM.

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08-24-2018, 02:06 PM	#2
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,661	If I was Canon, I'd probably wait to learn some lessons from Nikon's mirrorless launch and first few months thereafter. There are a lot of similarities between the two brands in terms of scale, market coverage, breadth of application etc. Nikon will have got some things wrong (every manufacturer does), and there are some valuable and relatively low-cost lessons Canon could benefit from - even if it has something almost ready to go - by holding off just a little while...

08-24-2018, 02:10 PM	#3
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,138 Original Poster	Checkout Angry's YT on the "what Nikon got wrong" thread ---------- Post added 08-25-18 at 08:13 AM ---------- Originally posted by BigMackCam Nikon's mirrorless launch Regardless of anyones personal opinion of Angry, his camera/lens evaluations are reasonably accurate.

08-24-2018, 02:19 PM	#4
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,661	Originally posted by surfar Checkout Angry's YT on the "what Nikon got wrong" thread If we're talking about "The Angry Photographer", I'd rather not But I'll be very interested to read feedback from a range of early adopters, and how prolific (or not) that feedback is. I'm especially interested to know what folks think of the F-mount AF adapter, considering Nikon chose to leave screw-drive out of the design. I guess that might not matter too much, as most folks are using newer lenses. Will Nikon gain a large chunk of new users (and will some of those be switching from Sony)? Will it convert some of its existing DSLR owners to mirrorless? Or expand the purchasing activities of existing DSLR owners to include the mirrorless bodies / adapters? Answers to these and many more questions could be extremely valuable to Canon in advance of releasing its own platform...

08-24-2018, 02:20 PM	#5
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,229	Nikon got it wrong (they are doomed), will Canon get it wrong and be doomed?

08-24-2018, 02:23 PM - 1 Like	#6
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,661	Originally posted by biz-engineer Nikon got it wrong, will Canon get it wrong? Did Nikon honestly get it wrong, though? I'm sure there are plenty of things that could be improved on the Z6 & 7... but - for existing Nikon DSLR and lens owners, at least - these bodies surely offer a lot of attractive features, largely (if not totally) comparable to their Sony counterparts? Or have I missed something? It's entirely possible I have, as I've only scanned the specs and watched a little of Sony Northrup's preview... (Thanks to @MarkJerling for alerting me to the nickname "Sony Northrup" - priceless )

08-24-2018, 02:49 PM - 1 Like	#7
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,138 Original Poster	Originally posted by BigMackCam (Thanks to @MarkJerling for alerting me to the nickname "Sony Northrup" - priceless ) Its miraculous @Mark has even heard of $$$ony or $ony&Chelsea considering he lives at the end of the Earth.Even his Wugby team plays in monochrome(and will be behind tonight!)

08-24-2018, 02:51 PM	#8
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by BigMackCam But I'll be very interested to read feedback from a range of early adopters, and how prolific (or not) that feedback is. I'm especially interested to know what folks think of the F-mount AF adapter, considering Nikon chose to leave screw-drive out of the design. ..... Answers to these and many more questions could be extremely valuable to Canon in advance of releasing its own platform... Since Canon never had an in-body AF motor, this part would be irrelevant to them.

08-24-2018, 02:52 PM	#9
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,661	Originally posted by reh321 Since Canon never had an in-body AF motor, this part would be irrelevant to them. A-ha. Thanks for the heads-up on that. Just shows what I know about Canon, right? And I own an EOS 5 film camera... with two AF lenses That aside, there are still good lessons Canon might learn at Nikon's expense, I think...

08-24-2018, 03:04 PM - 1 Like	#11
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by BigMackCam A-ha. Thanks for the heads-up on that. Just shows what I know about Canon, right? And I own an EOS 5 film camera... with two AF lenses That aside, there are still good lessons Canon might learn at Nikon's expense, I think... In the 1980's, Canon jumped straight from the FD-mount {which they "orphaned"} to the EF-mount {which current version of F-mount and the KAF4-mount resemble}. That is the main benefit they obtained from "abandoning" the FD-mount, and why making a full-function EF to EF-M converter was so straight-forward. I don't know whether the EF-M mount is compatible with FF. I do know that Canon recently patented yet another mount, so they may still have 'interesting' days ahead.

08-24-2018, 03:09 PM	#12
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,661	Originally posted by surfar If they come with 2 slots,reasonable 4K video,ergonomics and menu that better $$$ony then they wont steal the Pentax/Nikon Doomed tag.We know their AF will be up to the task. Does Canon already have eye AF (not the old eye-activated / eye-tracked AF point, but Sony-style Eye AF)? That seems to be one of the complaints on the Nikon mirrorless spec. Although I don't use it myself, Sony folks seem crazy about the Eye AF capability...

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08-24-2018, 03:12 PM	#13
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by surfar Canon have an announcement Sept 4/5. Getting hard to keep up with all this news. If it is anything about FF mirrorless, I expect Canon's effort will be more than credible. They have the mirrorless experience (in APS-C), they have good AF, they pioneered DSLR video - and they know exactly what Nikon and Sony are bringing to the table. They will probably aim to take a bigger bite out of the market than Nikon could hope for, and aim their offerings directly at Sony.

08-24-2018, 03:34 PM	#14
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by BigMackCam Does Canon already have eye AF (not the old eye-activated / eye-tracked AF point, but Sony-style Eye AF)? That seems to be one of the complaints on the Nikon mirrorless spec. Although I don't use it myself, Sony folks seem crazy about the Eye AF capability... I believe that is most important to folk using very shallow DOF .... whatever else might be outside their DOF, they want the eyes to be inside it.