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08-26-2018, 04:12 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Did you watch the video?
I did. Through tears of laughter and with gritted teeth.
Sony is just another tech company trying to make a buck. Photography consumers owe more to Apple.

08-26-2018, 04:19 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Photography consumers owe more to Apple.
51% of images on Flikr are from smart phones,Apples belong in Tasy!

QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Sony is just another tech company trying to make a buck
No different to every other major corporation,smart ones diversify...Why have all your Apples in the same State?
08-26-2018, 04:24 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Did you watch the video?
It might be exciting for you this kind of Sony religion but Nikon and Canon (and Pentax) are much more pragmatic in the way they address the question.
1) they know a lot more than the average camera user about technological choices
2) they know exactly how many product they sell, where they sell them and at what price
3) they make decisions not to suit your religious belief, they make decisions that are the best for their business overall

Sony are condemned force customer to buy their stuff because customers do not naturally feel the need for a mirrorless camera, selling mirrorless comes with heavy marketing expenses because nobody having a good DSLR needs a mirrorless camera.

---------- Post added 26-08-18 at 13:37 ----------

I've watched the video, and I agree with you, for mirrorless camera Sony will perform exactly like Apple for mobiles phones.

The real story happened the following way:
- Apple invented the iPhone and created the market segment for it
- Samsung followed and took half of the market to Apple
- Huawei joined later and took market share away for Apple again

Huawei is number 1, Samsung number 2 and Apple number 3.

From that story, let's see how mirrOless Pony will evolve:
- Sony invented the mirrorless camera and spent a lot of money to get it adopted by some users who did not want a Sony MILC, every user was skeptical and the two first generation of Sony Alpha were inferior to DSLR.
- Nikon waiting for the technology to be competitive with DSLR, entered the market with a full set of compelling cameras and lenses, taking market share away from Sony. Nikon users don't switch to Sony anymore.
- Canon learn from Nikon mirrorless introduction, adjust their plans (introduce only one camera instead of the 5 models that are already pre-designed), and enter the market in a perfect way, taking more market share away from Sony (at least much less Canon users switch to Sony).

What that means, Sony cannot enjoy being unique anymore, customers can finally enjoy the please of not buying Sony mirrorless cameras. Best case, Sony lose only a bit of market share, typical case Sony lose market share but are still able to maintain their marketing spending, and worst case Sony lose market share such that they have to reduce their marketing budget.

---------- Post added 26-08-18 at 13:49 ----------

To your question: $$$ony...who is going to catch them?
It doesn't matter if Canon or Nikon or both will not catch up with Sony, because they will anyway stop the progress of Sony, and that will hit Sony who will not be able to spend the same amount of marketing money anymore but if they do, their bottom line will suffer.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 08-26-2018 at 04:47 AM.
08-26-2018, 05:00 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Sony are condemned force customer to buy their stuff because customers do not naturally feel the need for a mirrorless camera, selling mirrorless comes with heavy marketing expenses because nobody having a good DSLR needs a mirrorless camera.
You may feel that way Others of us do not. You don't see the advantages of EVF, focusing, etc that come from MILC. There is no point to discussing them yet another time here, but I am aware of them despite having seen virtually no Sony advertising for MILC. DSLR and MILC each has advantages and disadvantages - I'm not sure either will come to ultimate domination.

08-26-2018, 05:04 AM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Did you watch the video?
If I watched all the videos you posted, I would have to cut back to part time on my job and wouldn't be able to afford my LBA...

My comment was related to the title of your thread which was, as I suppose, somewhat inflammatory and designed to encourage people to post on it.

I really don't watch internet videos. I find that anything talking heads say on video could be summarized in a four or five paragraph article that I can actually absorb quickly. Then again, I'm not a member of the You Tube generation and so it isn't unusual for me to sit down in an evening with an item that I have purchased that has paper pages that have printing on them. These things used to be called books...

---------- Post added 08-26-18 at 08:06 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
You may feel that way Others of us do not. You don't see the advantages of EVF, focusing, etc that come from MILC. There is no point to discussing them yet another time here, but I am aware of them despite having seen virtually no Sony advertising for MILC. DSLR and MILC each has advantages and disadvantages - I'm not sure either will come to ultimate domination.
I see a lot of Sony advertising. The thing with Sony advertising is a lot of it is with paid guns who are given free stuff and then post to the inter-webs their "opinions" that Sony is in the process of ruling the world. surfar is not in their employ, but many of the videos he posts show the fingerprints of Sony money.
08-26-2018, 05:13 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
to ultimate domination.
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I'm not sure either
Eventually the smartphone cameras will surpass "most" of what people at present think only Dslr/ML ILCs are capable of.

I have no idea how long thats going to be,but,at the rate of rapid advancement of late...5/10? years, not decades!

Film/Vinyl records/carburetter cars all enjoy their enthusiasts and maybe always will....Technology is like Time,it waits for no one.

This Dslr/Mirrorless thing is but a temporary blip in History.
08-26-2018, 05:21 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
despite having seen virtually no Sony advertising for MILC.
Are you sure? No even in this PENTAX forum thread?


Last edited by biz-engineer; 08-26-2018 at 05:27 AM.
08-26-2018, 05:38 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
but many of the videos he posts show the fingerprints of Sony money.
Ha Ha,good one.However, i post very few of what i watch.Only the ones that i think are relevant to a thread.(OK, some may not think they are relevant but they dont think with my mind!)

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If I watched all the videos you posted, I would have to cut back to part time on my job and wouldn't be able to afford my LBA...
OK,i'll accept i'm running 2nd to LBA...theres no cure(that ive found),so carry on.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
My comment was related to the title of your thread which was, as I suppose, somewhat inflammatory and designed to encourage people to post on it.
It worked!...someone(not me i dont enter) is going to win a K-1...i dont think we will get to K-1ii stage looking at the present figures.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I really don't watch internet videos.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
These things used to be called books...
I suppose thats OK,but audio/visual has been known to be the most rapid learning method,the University of YouTube knows no bounds.Its better than a part time job!(but again,thats only my opinion).
08-26-2018, 05:53 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Eventually the smartphone cameras will surpass "most" of what people at present think only Dslr/ML ILCs are capable of.

I have no idea how long thats going to be,but,at the rate of rapid advancement of late...5/10? years, not decades
I suspect the basic laws of physics may hinder the realisation of your dream.
08-26-2018, 05:59 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
I suspect the basic laws of physics may hinder the realisation of your dream.
And i suppose you remember when the Earth was Flat?

Technology has no limits, "most" not all(i studied Physics too)
08-26-2018, 07:29 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Every company is playing their own game. The only people who care about the collective game are the reviewers. The companies and the consumers don't.
You nailed it Sandy. The idea that there is some kind of sports contest is silly click bait.
08-26-2018, 08:19 AM   #27
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I'm very surprised that the Sony A7 III features only 2 aspect ratio (3:2 and 16:9), surprising for a mirrorless camera, even D850 and K1 offer a bit more options. A7 III has only one IR sensor at the front, Pentax K1 has both IR sensor at the front and at the back of the camera. Before claiming innovative features, it would be nice to have the basics done right.
08-26-2018, 09:01 AM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Sony is just another tech company trying to make a buck.
And I'm glad they are. Otherwise we would not have the quality of sensors that we have. I would not have a camera with amazing auto-focus and tracking.

The Greatest Tech Entrepreneur You've Never Heard Of: George Eastman - Foundation for Economic Education

The desire to make a buck is what motivates companies to be better and offer more which is what moves technology and society forward.
08-26-2018, 09:05 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Did you watch the video?
Are you going to pay me for my time?
08-26-2018, 09:27 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
What do you mean who is going to catch Sony? Canon way out sells Sony already. Whatever they add going down the road will only continue their market dominance. My understanding is that in Japan, Canon is the number one mirrorless seller. It is easy to pick and choose data from different places in the world to show that Sony is achieving some kind of market dominance, but when I see people using ILCs, I seldom see Sony.
Canon does need to catch Sony in terms of technology and innovation. Canon is the industry leader is sales due to the massive lens line-up and marketing. Sony is not going to catch that any time soon, but when you look at sensors and image quality, who is the industry leader? Would you want a Canon sensor in your K-1? When you look at AF technology and features like eye-AF, facial recognition, and tracking across the entire frame, Sony is leading the industry. Who else can offer black-out free shooting at 20fps and total silence? Take a good look at the White House Press Corp. Sony has made a big push in certain professional fields. Silent shooting for weddings and news conferences is a huge selling point. If you shoot people then Sony has a lot to offer. If you are shooting rocks and trees, then you don't need anything that Sony has.

The reason Sony is offering all these features is because they are the underdog by far and they have to pack a lot of value in their products in order to attract buyers and turn enough profit to continue to push innovation and provide even better sensor and cameras. If Sony were to stop making money and get out of the camera and imaging business Ricoh would be in quite a pickle when it comes to sensors.
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