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08-26-2018, 01:03 PM   #31
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A lot of the comments online are completely off the chart versus day to day practical use of cameras. People get lost themselves looking at the highest possible specification figures.


Last edited by biz-engineer; 08-26-2018 at 01:09 PM.
08-26-2018, 01:12 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
A lot of the comments online are completely off the chart versus day to day practical use of cameras. People get lost themselves looking at the highest possible specification figures.
That is always true of on-line sites - especially this one. Lots of speculation ..... but in case you haven't noticed there are a lot of You-Tube videos, and perhaps even TV programs, that are just the same idea.
08-26-2018, 01:28 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Canon does need to catch Sony in terms of technology and innovation. Canon is the industry leader is sales due to the massive lens line-up and marketing. Sony is not going to catch that any time soon, but when you look at sensors and image quality, who is the industry leader? Would you want a Canon sensor in your K-1? When you look at AF technology and features like eye-AF, facial recognition, and tracking across the entire frame, Sony is leading the industry. Who else can offer black-out free shooting at 20fps and total silence? Take a good look at the White House Press Corp. Sony has made a big push in certain professional fields. Silent shooting for weddings and news conferences is a huge selling point. If you shoot people then Sony has a lot to offer. If you are shooting rocks and trees, then you don't need anything that Sony has.

The reason Sony is offering all these features is because they are the underdog by far and they have to pack a lot of value in their products in order to attract buyers and turn enough profit to continue to push innovation and provide even better sensor and cameras. If Sony were to stop making money and get out of the camera and imaging business Ricoh would be in quite a pickle when it comes to sensors.
Canon is doing well because they capture the entry level market and do a good job of keeping those photographers in the fold as they grow. Very few photographers I have ever met read DXO Mark scores or read specifications of new cameras. Canon's sensors have "lagged" for five years and in that time they have continued to dominate the market. They released a half-hearted mirrorless option and my understanding is that they now are number one in the mirrorless market in Japan.

Clearly Sony cameras are specs monsters (as you know from your A9). Their sensors are great. I just don't actually see that much of a change in the normal photographers that I see shooting weddings and when I am walking around at parks and zoos with my family.
08-26-2018, 01:29 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It doesn't matter if Canon or Nikon or both will not catch up with Sony, because they will anyway stop the progress
An earthquake or Nuclear meltdown might slow $$$ony but CaNik wont stop their progress.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Are you going to pay me for my time?
Ha ha ha,the Czechs in the mail.

---------- Post added 08-27-18 at 07:33 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
it would be nice to have the basics done right.
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Sony A7 III
You may have overlooked the fact that $$$ony themselves call the A7iii their basic FF!

08-26-2018, 01:44 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
A lot of the comments online are completely off the chart versus day to day practical use of cameras. People get lost themselves looking at the highest possible specification figures.
The biggest problem that a lot of companies face is their pricing. More people go into the market with a specific price that they can/will pay on photographic gear. For many, that is in the 500 to 600 dollar range. There are fewer that are in the 1000 dollar range and the ranks thin as you go up in price.

I warrant that Sony sells tons more A7 cameras than A9s and more yet APS-C cameras. I have seen a couple of people I work with purchase cameras and they both ended up getting some T6i package with kit lens and slow telephoto. They asked me about the cameras and I said they were fine. None of them ever asked me about frame rates, DXO Mark scores, weather sealing, EVF versus OVF, or any of the other myriad things we debate here on the forum. But as far as I can tell they are happy with their cameras and if they purchase again down the road, they'll probably stay with Canon.
08-26-2018, 02:12 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
They released a half-hearted mirrorless option and my understanding is that they now are number one in the mirrorless market in Japan.
The EOS-M might have been a "half-hearted effort" but the EOS-M5 is not. I looked at one when I had to be in Best Buy for some other reason, and it looked like a reasonable variant of the EOS-77D that is said to be its progenitor. If I were still a Canon user, as I was four years ago at this time, the latest Canon MILCs would be high on my list of possibilities, and would probably be enough to keep me from looking at Pentax.

Last edited by reh321; 08-26-2018 at 02:27 PM.
08-26-2018, 02:23 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The EOS-M might have been a "half-hearted effort" but the EOS-M5 is not.
The M5 is probably one of my favorite mirrorless cameras, but I have no idea why they decided to have a screen that flipped down inside of to the side. It'd just get blocked by a tripod or something. Then the M6 loses the EVF and the screen flips up, only to be blocked by whatever's mounted on the hotshoe.

08-26-2018, 02:25 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
it looked like a reasonable variant of the EOS-77D that is said to be its progenitor.
It was their first decent effort,theres talk that a Mk ii variant is coming(Sept 4/5 announcement may reveal it).The M 50 is a neat little thing,shame the native lenses are lacking.
08-26-2018, 02:33 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nayu Quote
The M5 is probably one of my favorite mirrorless cameras, but I have no idea why they decided to have a screen that flipped down inside of to the side. It'd just get blocked by a tripod or something. Then the M6 loses the EVF and the screen flips up, only to be blocked by whatever's mounted on the hotshoe.
I much much much prefer a flip-down screen to an articulated screen that moves to the side. The articulated screen {yes I once had a Canon that works that way} gets in the way on the side, and advertises its presence; I used the LCD when I was taking photographs of people and I didn't want presence of my camera to affect their behavior. The only people I know of who like screen on the side are videographers.
08-26-2018, 02:56 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The only people I know of who like screen on the side are videographers.
You're right, that's exactly my use case for it. Only if there was a screen that could both flip up and down in-place as well as go off to the side.
08-26-2018, 03:13 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The EOS-M might have been a "half-hearted effort" but the EOS-M5 is not. I looked at one when I had to be in Best Buy for some other reason, and it looked like a reasonable variant of the EOS-77D that is said to be its progenitor. If I were still a Canon user, as I was four years ago at this time, the latest Canon MILCs would be high on my list of possibilities, and would probably be enough to keep me from looking at Pentax.
It's fine, but if you compare the EOS M50 to, say, the A6300, the Sony has better specs and a lot more native lenses available.

My point is that we on the Forum focus on specs, but that isn't necessarily what average folks buying cameras do. And if one camera has an 11 frame per second frame rate and 21 RAW file buffer and another has only 10 fps and 11 RAW buffer we make a big deal about, the same if one has a sensor that gets a DXO Mark of 85 and the other of 78. But DXO Mark scores and little differences in frame rates and even buffer sizes don't necessarily decide what cameras people end up buying.

The EOS M50 is available, it is decently priced and it doesn't have any major flaws and that's good enough for most people and that's why Canon is winning -- not because they have the best specs in the business.
08-26-2018, 03:20 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
that's why Canon is winning
They arent winning anything,they are just selling cameras.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The EOS M50 is available, it is decently priced and it doesn't have any major flaws
Yes it does, the kit lens is inadequate for Vloggers....in 4K.Its quite good in Pentax level video!

The AF in 4K isnt great either, most reviewers recommend not using it...So its promoted as a 4K camera by Canon and falls short.
08-26-2018, 04:13 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
They arent winning anything,they are just selling cameras.



Yes it does, the kit lens is inadequate for Vloggers....in 4K.Its quite good in Pentax level video!

The AF in 4K isnt great either, most reviewers recommend not using it...So its promoted as a 4K camera by Canon and falls short.
Ha.

This from the guy who posts every time Sony claims to "win" a month or quarter in some segment of market sales. Canon is selling more cameras than anyone and they are turning a profit. That qualifies as winning for the present in my book.
08-26-2018, 04:21 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
in my book.
Books are obsolete,weve moved to E books and YouTube!

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Ha.
08-26-2018, 04:39 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Yes it does, the kit lens is inadequate for Vloggers....in 4K.Its quite good in Pentax level video!

The AF in 4K isnt great either, most reviewers recommend not using it...So its promoted as a 4K camera by Canon and falls short.
Canon doesn't make these cameras for vloggers or other "professionals" ...... They made this from a camera that is basically a Rebel, for the "unwashed masses" who purchase Rebels {a Rebel failed me before I purchased the K-30} - for people with a positive view of Canon.

Last edited by reh321; 08-26-2018 at 04:46 PM.
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